morrolan

Gordon Walton - are you the one who brought us Trammel?

562 posts in this topic

I would have thought my answer to this would already be clear from what I wrote.   We'd be better off building a new game for that audience, than trying to modify a game in midstream to accommodate a different audience.  It might work financially but it would make the game it less of what it was.  Believe it or not, people that make games are not strictly motivated by money.

 

P.S. I think I am the accountant for ArtCraft btw.

 

 

I approached this game(crowfall) extremely skeptical.  Trying prevent myself from following it.  Every piece of content released so far has dug its claws in deeper.  So much so I donated far more than I would have ever expected to.

 

You two guys come from both an extremely loved and extremely bitter/hated set of dev groups for one reason or another.  The level of transparency so far is awesome, considering all of the general ideas of this game is what this community has wanted for the better part of a decade.

 

Thanks for the openess, you guys are definatly players of the of same games I like to play.

rajah likes this

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One thing that I keep seeing, over and over again in these discussions, is the idea that there's a dichotomy, a fundamental difference, between the people who want to engage in combat and the people who support them - and only the former, the people who go out to try to kill other players are considered "PvP." That's a false sentiment. Not everyone has great reflexes or honed strategic planning; some have lost it through age, others will never gain it for whatever reason.

 

But the crafters, the traders, and so on - they're PvP just as much as the combat-focused players. They're engaging in a different form of PvP, but especially in a world like how this game is planned and imagined, the traders, crafters, scouts, and spies are competing as well, helping to tip the world's balance in their team's favor.

 

PvP is more than just swords and armor and death. And this game, as it's been explained to us, is looking to implement all of it for us to engage in.

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Now, were you also behind the NGE for SWG?  :lol:

 

That had me literally laughing out loud

 

I dabbled shortly in Meridian but UO was my first MMO, met my first friend Palantir (Mike if you are looking at the game and read this, message me) we would have countless hours PKing, anti PKing, basically beating each other up to increase skill and woot when it went up 1 point. Expoiting guards for shields, destard, lock picking, it goes on and on, nearly lost my job over UO - from a community standpoint probably the best game I have played because I had so much invested.

 

Ahh the memories, I look forward to rekindling that as a crow

Edited by izumal

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This thread.. hand down by far my most favorite. As many have already stated a 15 yr old question finally answered. The responses from the numerous team members give my gut a great feeling in which this game will be going. And if I listen to my gut like I did when I was deployed then, hopefully I can call crowfall my new home when it launches. For too long I've been back and forth from UO since Mondains Legacy, jumping from MMO to MMO hoping to respark that "1st love"/"Amazement"  feeling. 

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I'll have to disagree with the sentiment that a PvP game needs "sociopathic" players who take joy in killing enemies that either won't or can't fight back. Meaningful conflict and interesting PvP can very well exist without these player types and the main difference is, it can be fun for both parties involved.

 

Unfortunately I don't think there will be any way of really filtering out the weeds from the garden, but I hope the devs will have some measures of discouraging random and repeated griefing. As said before in this thread, if you allow the wolves to kill the sheep long enough, there won't be any sheep to kill soon and the wolves will also then die out.

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Wonderful responses in this thread. I've never been part of a community where the developers are this transparent and honest. It's a refreshing change. I'm thrilled to be part of it !

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Remember that EA at that time was a packaged game company and they culturally only understood launching new products, not running live ones. 

 

Seeing what they were doing with MMOs in the last few years, this is true even today.

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The bad:  Without the "sheep to shear" the hard core PvP'ers were disenfranchised.  They didn't like preying on each other (hard targets versus soft targets), and they became a smaller minority in the overall game.  The real bad though was that the intensity and "realness" of the game for all players was diminished.  This was the major unintended consequence.

 customers) created.

Gordon,

I love that you gave an honest answer, this more or less removes any animosity I may have held over the choices made.

 

          What I wanted to Challenge you on is this, I know many think that PvP'ers are all about looking for soft targets. What drives me nuts is that they forget there are SOME that do the opposite. In Uo for example,we had a clan based on protecting those that were preyed upon by the pk sort.

          The old term "Anti-Pk" has not been used in many games ( uo and ac  that I know of) but it was a thriving community of close knit guys that also allies and helped to protect the rp players at the time as needed..    When you added trammel you also removed our purpose.

      I have to add, I also love to role-play in these game, and promote it as able... When you remove the threat of pvp you also greatly diminish the impact and immersion of role-play.  There can be little true role-play without the risk of retaliation... ( Such and such walks into your royal halls in the midst of your crowning and denounces you...no one can touch you, silence you, or interact in any meaningful rp way )

 

I know you see my point.

 

Simply asking that you keep this in mind when thinking of who pvp's  and why

 

Thanks

 

Galiswyn Ta'Kier

Ellestor of the Court of Evermore

Edited by galiswyn ta'kier
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Galiswyn Ta'Kier

Ellestor of the Court of Evermore

This post was not an error *grins with an honest face*.. it was simply my reply to counter reply whatever you say as if i was physic   :P

Edited by galiswyn ta'kier

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Ask me about the NGE when it's been 15 years.   :)   

 

I hope you weren't responsible for NGE.

 

Please tell me you weren't responsible for destroying SWG.

 

If so, know that karma is a thing and you clearly don't like puppies.

 

RIP SWG, we miss you so much, one of the best mmorpgs ever created, at least until NGE. :(

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I hope you weren't responsible for NGE.

 

Please tell me you weren't responsible for destroying SWG.

 

If so, know that karma is a thing and you clearly don't like puppies.

 

RIP SWG, we miss you so much, one of the best mmorpgs ever created, at least until NGE. :(

 

I'm the Forest Gump of online gaming and now that SOE is no more I'll have to tell that story sooner than I planned.

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I hope you weren't responsible for NGE.

 

Please tell me you weren't responsible for destroying SWG.

 

If so, know that karma is a thing and you clearly don't like puppies.

 

RIP SWG, we miss you so much, one of the best mmorpgs ever created, at least until NGE. :(

 

/me buffs his fire resistance.

 

 

I liked the NGE. Oh wells.

 

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While Trammel ruined UO for a lot of people in my guild I understood why it was done. The Fall of Trinsic Community Events were so awesome. I remember lining the walls with my guildmates and fighting giant zombies day and knight. Lag was high but the fun was great. Undead everywhere!

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Say what you will about the NGE, and certainly it made me walk away, it DID eventually succeed in bringing an influx of players and late-SWG fans (more than the ones that left); for all its warts it was a choice that I think allowed the MMO to live a little longer than it might have otherwise.

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NGE was a move to get a broader/larger audience. 

 

Lets just thanks that we will not need that kind of update here. 

 

With campaigns they don't have to. ACE could put a PvE only campaign in without hurting the various forms of PvP ruleset at all. The fact that their core design is so flexible is one of the big draws on the project.

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I'm the Forest Gump of online gaming and now that SOE is no more I'll have to tell that story sooner than I planned.

 

Please do, I think everyone would love to hear it. Daybreak as a company is obviously all about mass appeal and ripping others to shreds for profit, they don't care about the disillusioned minority of players from the past.

 

Without exaggeration I think for many of us here SWG NGE is a particularly painful experience standing out among others in our entire gaming lives and anything explaining the context and reasons for it, thoughts of it and reflections from it would go a long way towards building up confidence in this project.

Edited by Mookzen
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