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ntgeranis

Buying Your Way To Legendaries

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From what I've read, you can buy VIP status with real money, and then trade it to players in game for in game currency? Is that true? If that is true, then what's stopping someone from buying thousands of dollars of VIP packages and selling them in-game for currency, and then just buying all of the best gear? If there's nothing stopping people from doing that, how does that not make this game pay to win?

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11 minutes ago, ntgeranis said:

From what I've read, you can buy VIP status with real money, and then trade it to players in game for in game currency? Is that true? If that is true, then what's stopping someone from buying thousands of dollars of VIP packages and selling them in-game for currency, and then just buying all of the best gear? If there's nothing stopping people from doing that, how does that not make this game pay to win?

I think they try to justify this by having less emphasis on vertical gear progression and shallow power curves.  It remains to be seen how p2w this will actually end up being. 

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Well, the real answer is this isn't WoW.

Lets just assume you are a whale (someone with lots of money to burn). We haven't seen, nor heard about any sort of in-game mail. That means potentially you'd have to do this trade in-person and in-game. 

Now, because the flow of materials from a campaign world to and from the Eternal Battlegrounds (arguably the only safe place you can go to perform a trade) is strictly regulated to the beginning and end of a campaign, your ability to trade when you likely most need it (the middle or just before the ending!) is basically non-existent. 

This effectively means you'd need to go into a campaign world, convert your VIP into an in-game item (supposedly) and trust that the person across from you isn't going to murder you and take your poorly made socks (or have his buddies clued in your carrying it around and come hunt you down).

We don't know the specifics of how VIP is converted or traded in Crowfall, but if its forced to be done in-game (like it should be), that means most VIP trading will take place in the safest possible location; the Eternal Battlegrounds. That means minimal impact on the game world. Anyone bringing in vast amounts of goods and materials is either going to consume them immediately and gain a temporary first-mover advantage, or lose them when someone ganks him the moment he enters into a world and tries to withdraw them.

Basically, at this point, I can think of a dozen ways they can limit the impact of a whale buying his way to a campaign victory. We don't know the details though to properly address your concern. 

If someone wants to try to buy his way to a victory in a campaign though, I'm hugely for this. The more money ACE gets, the better Crowfall becomes. Winning is transient. You've spent real life cash for a single victory. I'm okay with that.

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The player will also have to play good, with sick gear, to make a huge difference I imagine..

And the person would have spend so much money that their entire guild would be well geared, to it make an impact on a campaign.

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VIP would have to be a LOT more attractive for someone to trade a legendary piece for VIP. 

I think that is the main hurdle, at least at this time.

Even if the value of VIP is increased, I think the pool of people willing to part with a legendary item for the VIP will still be small, unless they do a 180 and VIP becomes VERY attractive.

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What is to ever say in any game that a Whale couldn't pay an individual or guild outside of game cycle to create gear for him?  As long as players can trade items there is always a way to PtW...    the counter to that is the guild getting paid not having that gear themselves to win the game itself.   The vending system will allow permissions and thus allow me to chose who to sell to...   I would prefer all item transfers to go through a thrall vendor as opposed to player direct trades as trade windows are a high source for potential grifting and duping.  With only vendors, or chests as the transfer mechanism between players it also gives more security.   Said whale and guild could build trust one transaction at a time, there is no stopping the power of real currency as a motivator other than with our guild needs, integrity and sportsmanship.   What would you do if offered $1000 through paypal to create 5 sets of blue armor and weapons and you have the mats on hand, the agreement of the guild and a vendor in game to pass the goods.  I am not saying it is right but I am saying it can easily be done.

Edited by Frykka

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50 minutes ago, Frykka said:

What is to ever say in any game that a Whale couldn't pay an individual or guild outside of game cycle to create gear for him?  As long as players can trade items there is always a way to PtW...    the counter to that is the guild getting paid not having that gear themselves to win the game itself.   The vending system will allow permissions and thus allow me to chose who to sell to...   I would prefer all item transfers to go through a thrall vendor as opposed to player direct trades as trade windows are a high source for potential grifting and duping.  The security of vendors, or chests as the transfer mechanism between players also gives more security.   Said whale and guild could build trust one transaction at a time, there is no stopping the power of real currency as a motivator other than with our integrity and sportsmanship.   What would you do if offered $1000 through paypal to create 5 sets of blue armor and weapons and you have the mats on hand, the agreement of the guild and a vendor in game to pass the goods.  I am not saying it is right but I am saying it can easily be done. 

I am already thinking of creating a Virtual Etsy site if this can become a thing!! 

 

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2 hours ago, Frykka said:

Just for the record I do not support this thing...  until a whale actually contacts me and sends hookers and beer to my hotel room.

How many hookers and what kind of beer?

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On 2017-04-21 at 8:51 AM, scree said:

Well, the real answer is this isn't WoW.

Lets just assume you are a whale (someone with lots of money to burn). We haven't seen, nor heard about any sort of in-game mail. That means potentially you'd have to do this trade in-person and in-game. 

Now, because the flow of materials from a campaign world to and from the Eternal Battlegrounds (arguably the only safe place you can go to perform a trade) is strictly regulated to the beginning and end of a campaign, your ability to trade when you likely most need it (the middle or just before the ending!) is basically non-existent. 

This effectively means you'd need to go into a campaign world, convert your VIP into an in-game item (supposedly) and trust that the person across from you isn't going to murder you and take your poorly made socks (or have his buddies clued in your carrying it around and come hunt you down).

We don't know the specifics of how VIP is converted or traded in Crowfall, but if its forced to be done in-game (like it should be), that means most VIP trading will take place in the safest possible location; the Eternal Battlegrounds. That means minimal impact on the game world. Anyone bringing in vast amounts of goods and materials is either going to consume them immediately and gain a temporary first-mover advantage, or lose them when someone ganks him the moment he enters into a world and tries to withdraw them.

Basically, at this point, I can think of a dozen ways they can limit the impact of a whale buying his way to a campaign victory. We don't know the details though to properly address your concern. 

If someone wants to try to buy his way to a victory in a campaign though, I'm hugely for this. The more money ACE gets, the better Crowfall becomes. Winning is transient. You've spent real life cash for a single victory. I'm okay with that.

just wanted to add even in eve it wasnt too rare to see a shuttle die carrying VIP vouchers

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There are several things stopping P2W in this game:

1. Durability: the reason there isn't P2W in this game is because nothing is permanent.  All items have durability that will decrease over time until the item permanently breaks.  If you pay $100 for the absolute best weapon in the game, it WILL break eventually and you're going to have to shell out another $100 to get a new one, that is if there is even anyone around that can make it for you.

2. Embargo: You can only take a certain amount of resources and equipment into and out of campaigns so even if you have tons of cash in your eternal kingdom, you'll only be able to bring the same amount as everyone else into a campaign.  And once in a campaign your wallet won't help you as you can't bring anything else in.

3. Resources are not limitless: The best resources can only be found in the high risk/high reward campaigns and you only get to bring a certain amount back to your EK after you finish (and even less if you don't win).  High tier resources will be very rare outside campaigns and as there is no global auction house you'll have to do a lot searching to find someone who has the best item, and they may not even be intersted in gold currency, they may want to trade it for other high level gear or rare resources which you won't have just from selling VIP stuff.

4. Power scaling: One person with epic gear is not going to turn the tides of battle in a campaign.  You might be able to win a 1v1 fight with some random enemy you meet out while exploring, but as most conflicts will probably be group vs group or army vs army, a single whale's gear advantage will mean a lot less in those conflicts.

People who are willing to throw tons of money at the game WILL have an advantage, but it will be much much smaller than those in other MMO's because of the way this is designed.

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On 4/20/2017 at 10:23 PM, ntgeranis said:

From what I've read, you can buy VIP status with real money, and then trade it to players in game for in game currency? Is that true? If that is true, then what's stopping someone from buying thousands of dollars of VIP packages and selling them in-game for currency, and then just buying all of the best gear? If there's nothing stopping people from doing that, how does that not make this game pay to win?

Let me ask you one (ok two) simple question:

You run into two players in the world, one either put tons of time into getting the "best gear" or got fed by their guild, and the other bought the best gear with funds from selling VIP.  How would you even know the difference?  What would it matter?  Someone still had to make the "best gear", so someone would have it regardless of selling VIP or not.  The gear exists, someone is wearing, and it shouldn't matter if the made it/earned it or bought it.  But in the latter case, ACE at least benefits.

There's usually only two answers here: it doesn't, in fact, matter, or you're just upset that someone could afford to buy gear when you can't/won't.  In the end, you'd never know the difference coming across a "geared" player.

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53 minutes ago, Kiro said:

I'd like to add that not all campaigns will have the ability to Import gear from start to finish, and be export only.

Yeah, it's going to be very to difficult to pay money (excluding black market stuff like cash to a guild) to have any noticeable effect on a campaign.  A single player with good gear won't win a massive fight single-handedly, it's going to be exceptionally difficult regardless through import/export mechanics, and someone still would've had to craft this "legendary" gear, meaning it'd be in circulation regardless!

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Youd be far better off spending that same amount of money to an opposing guild / alliance to "throw" the campaign in your favor, purposely losing battles etc etc.

Otherwise, as everyone has already says, chances are if you spend all that you could lose or have the item broken - which at the end of the day is a total waste.

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Actually, the Embargo can be bypassed, here's how.

Whale contacts me to craft a weapon. They state they want to trade VIP for it. The current campaign rules are no import. I crow hop into my EK, invite said whale, and we trade the VIP. We head into the campaign where I give the weapon to them.  This can be done with 4 people, 2 in the EK and 2 in the campaign world so no scams happen.

 

Another thing about this game is that if the whale is killed their gear can be looted (campaign rules pending). Others have mentioned that the gear will break, eventually. 

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