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Skill mechanics - Official discussion thread

465 posts in this topic

Oh good the Pips are part of the passive skill training design, not more Pips for actual in game skills.  I was worried all classes went to Pips.

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The original idea was to make sure that people felt like they were getting a noticeable gain in skills on every login

When we log in every day, but have spans of 2+ days where we never see a skill increase on even 1 Pip, do you feel the system is working as intended.  Personally I think the scale should be 2/3 of the current training time for rank 1-5 skills.

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For non-VIP players, there is no “queueing system”, so you’ll want to log into the lobby and adjust your skill trains between “dings”.

For VIP members, skills will continue to train after earning any pip, up to the maximum of five pips for the selected skill.

Example: A VIP player can start a skill training at zero pips and three days later it will hit five pips automatically. A non-VIP player can achieve the exact same result in the same period of time, but they will need to login five times during that period – once every 14 hours

 

This has me concerned, but I will hold off on judging it until actually playing around with it.  Currently you can let a 30 day skill run its course, under the new skill system I would have to login 4 additional times over 30 days in order to complete the skill.  This is NOT the type of skill queuing most of us were looking for (well at least not me).  I would like to see a skill queuing where you can train 1 skill to 5 Pips and then queue an additional skill to pick up after the original skill is finished.  This helps us not have those midnight wake ups just to change a skill.

Edited by Teufel

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For non-VIP players, there is no “queueing system”, so you’ll want to log into the lobby and adjust your skill trains between “dings”.

For VIP members, skills will continue to train after earning any pip, up to the maximum of five pips for the selected skill.

Example: A VIP player can start a skill training at zero pips and three days later it will hit five pips automatically. A non-VIP player can achieve the exact same result in the same period of time, but they will need to login five times during that period – once every 14 hours

'Per pip' lack of queuing...interesting.

Enjoy that theoretical people with 30+ accounts!


as a single account user who would like to support the game via VIP instead of circumventing the design and spirit of the system by stacking alternative accounts, sounds good.


It sounds like training progression is no longer slower deeper into a node now?

edit: blair confirms in thread that it still takes longer time to train later pips within a node

Edited by Tinnis
Tofyzer, NchDu, Soulreaver and 5 others like this

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That tidbit about the difference between VIP and non VIP is incredibly disappointing and meh, I hope whatever else they have in store for VIP isn't as casual a slap to non-VIP and is seen as a useful perk to VIP.

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I have VIP on all my accounts, so this doesn't affect me, but making non-VIP login 5 times per skill to keep up training is pretty evil.  For low tier skills, that's an awful lot of micromanagement.  I was hoping to see VIP have benefits (like queuing up the next skill, and an offline phone app to set training) rather than seeing non-VIP punished.

The skill wipe coming with race/class changes "in a few months" is disappointing on two fronts.  I was hoping for no skill wipe until the one that marks soft-launch.  And I was thinking we'd see the race/class changes sooner than "in a few months."  I am very much looking forward to the revamped skill system for classes, at least.

 

Anthrage, Jekyll, kuwani and 17 others like this

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2 minutes ago, durenthal said:

I have VIP on all my accounts, so this doesn't affect me, but making non-VIP login 5 times per skill to keep up training is pretty evil.  For low tier skills, that's an awful lot of micromanagement.  I was hoping to see VIP have benefits (like queuing up the next skill, and an offline phone app to set training) rather than seeing non-VIP punished.

The skill wipe coming with race/class changes "in a few months" is disappointing on two fronts.  I was hoping for no skill wipe until the one that marks soft-launch.  And I was thinking we'd see the race/class changes sooner than "in a few months."  I am very much looking forward to the revamped skill system for classes, at least.

 

@thomasblair Your 14 hour guess is slightly off, you do realize the first 50% of a skill node trained faster than the last 50% of the skill node.  So I have a question:

  • Did you revamp the skill training times to be a linear training, instead of the curve we have now?

If you didn't adjust the training times, then it will be more like logging in to start the 1st pip, then log in a couple hours later for the 2nd pip, then log in a few hours after that for the 3rd pip and then your 14 hours, then a full day for the last pip.

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4 minutes ago, durenthal said:

I was hoping to see VIP have benefits (like queuing up the next skill, and an offline phone app to set training) rather than seeing non-VIP punished

given the time scales for most non starting nodes this was irrevelant versus having to log in maybe a few times a month to set up your training manually.

this on the other hand.....both more motivational for VIP and punishes those who are already planning to circumvent the account training model...

pang and Tofyzer like this

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19 minutes ago, Tinnis said:

'Per pip' lack of queuing...interesting.

Enjoy that theoretical people with 30+ accounts!

 


It sounds like training progression is no longer slower deeper into a node now?

Well if they want to give ACE 450 a month they'll show us all!

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6 minutes ago, ren said:

"It also means that skill training will “ding” much less often than before."

Well that is good news at least.  The current ding spam with the awful alert noise is very distracting.

please fix the UI so the skill training pop ups don't cover my power bar and cooldowns! ¬_¬

[p.s. i've had UI sounds turned off for over a year at this point between the skill and chat noise....]

Edited by Tinnis
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I actually quite like this skill tree queuing change with VIP. It's going to give a ton of value to VIP and heavily nerfs multiple account use. Sure people could still whale it up and VIP all their accounts but at that point I'm okay with it considering they're funding the hell out of the game.

It's going to be quite a lot of micromanagement for those people with 50 accounts.

EDIT: 

So an interesting little tidbit of information that was glossed over is the fact that skill training is completely linear now. Does training the first pip take exactly the same time as the last pip? 

I'm extrapolating that from this quote "Example: A VIP player can start a skill training at zero pips and three days later it will hit five pips automatically. A non-VIP player can achieve the exact same result in the same period of time, but they will need to login five times during that period – once every 14 hours"

Edited by Zybak
Tofyzer, NchDu, Atome and 2 others like this

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4 minutes ago, Zybak said:

I actually quite like this skill tree queuing change with VIP. It's going to give a ton of value to VIP and heavily nerfs multiple account use. Sure people could still whale it up and VIP all their accounts but at that point I'm okay with it considering they're funding the hell out of the game.

It's going to be quite a lot of micromanagement for those people with 50 accounts.

I'm ok with the announcement of the VIP queuing, however I think they need to take it a step further and allow us to queue 1 additional skill to start training right away after the 5th pip trains.  Maybe that is how it will be, but they never said anything about queuing up a follow up skill, only about queuing up the pips in the current skill.

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My opinion on the skill training move to pips hasn't changed from when we were first told it was coming:

On 5/2/2017 at 6:44 PM, moneda said:

Unfortunately I believe the change described in the video will exacerbate the problem you describe, not solve it, because "gaining a few percents" in a skill has always changed things, even if by only 1%. I'm currently 72% into the Templar skill that grants 4500 HP, which grants me 3240 HP. When they implemented the 5-pip (5-feather? I wonder what they'll call these things) stat granting they described there won't be anything granted between, say, 50% and 75%, meaning currently I'd only have an extra 2250 HP until the skill hit 75%, which will presumably take just as long as it would have when stat granting was percent based. You'll wait longer to see results from skill training.

It's annoying to not be one of the special people who needs to be drip-fed shiny things. Waiting longer to see the same results does not appeal to me in the slightest, though I suppose to people who will have never known anything else it'll be fine. Good for them. :rolleyes:

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As part of adding more choice in progressing through a skill tree, we have dropped the requirements of requiring max training in a skill node to advance in the tree. Generally, skills will now require three or four pips to be trained before you meet the requirements to “jump forward” and train the next skill(s) in the tree.

Thumbs up for this.

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The queueing system change isn't something that will impact me much, but if I WERE a nonvip player I would kind of get the used car salesman vibe from that specific mechanic.  I do admit this will greatly increase the value of VIP and make multi-accounting without it very tedious though, so perhaps it is worth it overall.

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Sincere feedback - I absolutely hate the requirement to log in immediately after each "ding" to get the training clock going again.  

This system is one of "punishment avoidance" not "achievement celebration."

A specific problem is that if you are away from your computer for a few days at a time now and then (vacation, business trip), and not around for the "ding", you have to wait days to get the training ticker going again.

And any "dings" that occur during the workday or in the middle of the night mean no forward progress for numerous hours at a stretch.

Yes, you can do the "start longer training cycle and then swap back trick" to mitigate the losses somewhat.

I find it to be a frustrating game play mechanic.

Provide the ability to queue up training tasks and my issue is resolved.  

It seems weak to be pushing VIP to make the game experience less painful as opposed to more fun.

 

 

 

 

Xarrayne, Teufel, Doradur and 8 others like this

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19 minutes ago, BarriaKarl said:

For non-VIP players, there is no “queueing system”, so you’ll want to log into the lobby and adjust your skill trains between “dings”.

 

^This seems like a pain for non-VIPs. Like a really big PITA.

Still much better than grinding for levels or XP :D

I mean, yea. Obviously it's meant to be an inconvenience in order to make VIP more desirable. But I'm perfectly fine with this new system. Makes VIP convenient and desirable (obviously VIP will have more perks coming), puts an additional bump on the road of those who plan to have poorly made socksloads of accounts (even if it's a small one), but doesn't alter the life of those who are non-VIP single account casuals.

Tofyzer and ren like this

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