Godma

Make it pay to play

59 posts in this topic

Never this. Subscription model died and for a good reason. I, like millions of other player, will never again play p2p game. Elder Scroll Online learned their lesson, Wild Star learned their lesson - subscription=death of the game.

And even b2p is outdated and horrid model.
There is a reason why Diablo 3 doesn't exists compared to Path of Exile.
F2P=innovative, with tons of people to built and maintain economy, available for people to try before committing, etc.
B2P=risky, often not worth it, the game must be extremely well received to convince people to buy it.
P2P=automatic death. There is reason why only the best MMO ever created managed to maintain subscription model, and even now they add more ways (wow tokens) for people to play without paying.

Edited by Plasmafogking
Was incomplete
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While I would prefer Crowfall to go with a Pay-to-Play model, with the number of players this game will likely have it won't be enough to keep the game going for a long period of time. The best model for this game is to go Free-to-Play, eventually being available on Steam, with cash transactions. 

What I currently hate, with a burning passion, is the slippery slope of Pay-to-Win that Crowfall is already going. Relics should not be something that can just be purchased. Anything that isn't solely cosmetics based (I'm on the fence about Eternal Kingdom things), should be taken off the store and players' money refunded. The game hasn't even launched yet and ACE is already selling items that effect stats (after also making $12 million through crowdfunding). That honestly turned me away from the game, the only reason I'm still here is because I couldn't refund my CE of the game and I have a small hope that ACE will stop selling stat items for cash. 

I would like to see the top tier gear in the game look amazing, but have costumes that look amazing too. I'm pretty sure Riot makes plenty of money off skin sales. If there was an angelic looking costume I would buy a full set of it for all my characters, but right now with the relics in the store all ACE is getting from me is a disappointed customer that will never spend any more money on Crowfall or future products.

Majority of the MMO community has been hurt to many times by games that weren't going to be P2W, but went that direction and the current flooding of the market with games that are clearly P2W. I for one want something different from than the P2W MMO and hopefully ACE corrects itself.

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My experience has been that in most instances F2P typically results in P2W. These games typically do what they can to grab as much money as possible from the player before "cool" factor fades, this way they can earn 1+ years worth of subscription fees before the player gets past the honeymoon period. PoE would be an example of a game that has been successful despite being F2P and not P2W. I'll be the first to admit that I don't think PoE's cosmetic/bank tab only model would work in CF.

Edited by Verot
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10 hours ago, Verot said:

My experience has been that in most instances F2P typically results in P2W. These games typically do what they can to grab as much money as possible from the player before "cool" factor fades, this way they can earn 1+ years worth of subscription fees before the player gets past the honey moon period. PoE would be an example of a game that has been successful despite being F2P and not P2W. I'll be the first to admit that I don't think PoE's cosmetic/bank tab only model would work in CF.

I agree, but with how heavy ACE is defending relics I doubt they will change it.

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8 hours ago, Verot said:

@ironarm defending relics?

Relics can be bought and provide different buffs that you can buy out of the store. ACE has defend themselves selling it saying people can figure out ways to craft these materials, but thinking like that is a slippery slope. The game isn't even out yet and they have P2W elements in the game with $12 million in total funding. Imagine when the game has been out for 6 months and player numbers start to drop.

 

*Edit: Fixed

Edited by ironarm
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Quote

While we also offer VIP membership and an online shop where you can buy cosmetic items and buildings for your eternal kingdom (see more information below), both are completely optional and will not affect your ability to play and enjoy the game

Let me fix this for ACE really quick: "While we also offer VIP membership and an online shop were you can buy cosmetic items and buildings for your eternal kingdom (see more information below), both are completely optional and will not affect your ability to play and enjoy the game, but we do offer relics pre-launch that will give you stat temp stat buffs in the store for RL cash and will be adding more in the future.

 

Quote

 

No. Because you can only play one character at a time, VIP accounts and standard accounts are balanced on a moment-by-moment basis. VIP accounts offer more variety in playstyle, but are no more powerful.

Our goal is to make the VIP membership entirely optional.

 

Let me fix this for ACE really quick too: "No. Because you can only play one character at a time, VIP account and standard accounts are balanced on a moment-by-moment basis. VIP accounts offer more variety in playstyle, but are no more powerful.

Our goal is to make the VIP membership entirely optional, but you need to get it if you are serious about this game. The VIP system allows you to focus in two trees with and so you should theoretically be able to save more IG money that you can spend on other things making it where you do have an ingame advantage.

EDIT: I don't actually mind the VIPs having an advantage over non-VIPs, but just be honest about it.

Lastly (please correct me if I'm wrong), but isn't trading VIP membership a P2W mechanic? That's exactly what happened in ArcheAge, you bought Apex (30 day sub) and then sold it on the AH. People would just buy a ton of them for RL money and turn around and sell them on the AH to buy the Divine Weapons and Armor. How will this system be any different?

 

I really want to love this game. I really was hoping it would be amazing and would really be that beacon of hope of the current MMO titles. Its been the first game I ever believed in so much that I backed it. I've never funded a game before, but I had hope this one would be different. Just so far nothing or no one has been able to convince me that this game won't become just another P2W MMO. So please, someone convince me!!!  

Edited by ironarm
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1 hour ago, ironarm said:

Let me fix this for ACE really quick: "While we also offer VIP membership and an online shop were you can buy cosmetic items and buildings for your eternal kingdom (see more information below), both are completely optional and will not affect your ability to play and enjoy the game, but we do offer relics pre-launch that will give you stat temp stat buffs in the store for RL cash and will be adding more in the future.

 

Let me fix this for ACE really quick too: "No. Because you can only play one character at a time, VIP account and standard accounts are balanced on a moment-by-moment basis. VIP accounts offer more variety in playstyle, but are no more powerful.

Our goal is to make the VIP membership entirely optional, but you need to get it if you are serious about this game. The VIP system allows you to focus in two trees with and so you should theoretically be able to save more IG money that you can spend on other things making it where you do have an ingame advantage.

EDIT: I don't actually mind the VIPs having an advantage over non-VIPs, but just be honest about it.

Lastly (please correct me if I'm wrong), but isn't trading VIP membership a P2W mechanic? That's exactly what happened in ArcheAge, you bought Apex (30 day sub) and then sold it on the AH. People would just buy a ton of them for RL money and turn around and sell them on the AH to buy the Divine Weapons and Armor. How will this system be any different?

 

I really want to love this game. I really was hoping it would be amazing and would really be that beacon of hope of the current MMO titles. Its been the first game I ever believed in so much that I backed it. I've never funded a game before, but I had hope this one would be different. Just so far nothing or no one has been able to convince me that this game won't become just another P2W MMO. So please, someone convince me!!!  

Their logic for allowing p2w is that the game doesn't have as steep a vertical progression/power curve.

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On 9/16/2017 at 7:08 AM, Plasmafogking said:

Ohhhh, what? No, please no. Any P2W game is dead on arrival. Look at Archeage - extremely good game instantly killed by P2W.
If this game goes P2W on release i will drop it instantly. No point in playing a game which will die when it starts.

P2W = Pay to win.
Pay to play = Subscription based
*this is what he's talking about.
 

Edited by MetalGERE
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15 hours ago, MetalGERE said:

P2W = Pay to win.
Pay to play = Subscription based
*this is what he's talking about.
 

Are you intellectually inefficient to read several comments back where guys are talking about p2w items who would most likely added to cash shop?Please, give a simple answer of "yes" or "no".

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2 hours ago, Plasmafogking said:

Are you intellectually inefficient to read several comments back where guys are talking about p2w items who would most likely added to cash shop?Please, give a simple answer of "yes" or "no".

The irony of having my intellect questioned by someone who can't use the qouation marks properly makes for quite a laugh.

:)

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On 2017-09-20 at 8:50 PM, MetalGERE said:

The irony of having my intellect questioned by someone who can't use the qouation marks properly makes for quite a laugh.

:)

That's strange. Are you implying that you have some sort of intellect? Very strange indeed.

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6 minutes ago, Plasmafogking said:

That's strange. Are you implying that you have some sort of intellect? Very strange indeed.

Cute! You're trying so hard too. 

Do you need anything else explained while I'm here?

I love helping new people or people that don't understand!

 

Edited by MetalGERE
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