Note: Editing this post to reflect some PCM stuff and more testing in 5.7.1
Hi, @mhalashace and @thomasblair, me again, back with another episode of "State of the Knight."
Overall, the knight is a fun class to play. It has a nice base toolkit. But it's not an especially effective class to play, particularly early on. The knight scales pretty well with training and gear - at the start of training, it's the weakest melee class, but it feels better at end-game (even though I can't really say it's stronger than any other melee class at end game).
The defining power of the knight should be its block. But for the most part, block is pretty meh. It cuts damage taken, but not by a lot (especially with end-game armor mitigations), and at the cost of preventing the knight from doing anything else. The resultant damage bonus lasts one attack, and in no way makes up for the loss of dps time while you were blocking. The reflect on elemental damage may mean more when confessors and druids become more popular, and when frostweavers arrive, but for now, it's not as good as advertised.
The defining power of the knight is actually chain pull. It's on a 25s cooldown, but it does decent damage, and acts as a nice range closer if you can get close enough to use it. I get about 50% of my kills with chain pull (as opponents tend to try to escape at low health and it's my only ranged attack).
Let's take a look at the full power toolkit of the knight:
1 - charge - 25m range charge that stuns a target if you cover the full 25m and end within 5m of the target, facing the target. Back in hunger dome, you would charge as long as you held the key (to a max of 25m) and the stun went off when you released the key. That version was much better than the current version. Recommendation: Charge should last while the key is pressed, with a minimum of 5m and a maximum of 25m, and the charge should end and the stun activate on key-release.
2 - Shield Bash - in theory, this is a good power. It sets the target's dodge pip count to 0. BUT (and this is a big but), it is rarely available when you need it (because it only activates after landing 3 consecutive LMBs or after filling your block meter), and it does jack for damage. Also, the target can regenerate a pip as soon as 1s after the power sets them to 0. Further, while it says it hits critically if used a second time in 5s, it's rarely available again 5s after the first use, and the crit is for about 100 dmg so that part of the power is total BS. Recommendation: Take away the activation requirements, take away the auto-crit on a second hit in 5s (given its crap dmg, that's just a slap in the face).
3 - Shield Swipe / Shield Stun combo - This is a decent combo. Both elements hit for reasonable damage. The stun is telegraphed by the shield swipe (something I like, and that I wish you'd continued with for later classes. The early classes telegraph their CC, later classes do not. This puts the earlier classes at a disadvantage against experienced players). The cooldown on part 2 of the combo is 7 seconds longer than the cooldown on part 1, which feels silly. I would much rather you split the difference (23 and 30) and gave each power a 26s cooldown.
4 - Onslaught Combo - this is a nice combo, and again, I wish it were something that later classes also had to manage. The first power in the chain does two very weak attacks. The second stage powers are strange.. brutal strike is a hard hitting attack. But twin assault has to be the weakest attack in the game from any class. I don't understand why you think it has any value or should be included in the combo chain at all. There is never a situation where a player would prefer twin assault over brutal strike. The third pair in the combo chain (shockwave and obliterate) are both good powers, and which one I choose is a tactical decision rather than one always being better than the other. Recommendation: Fix or remove twin assault, improve the damage on Onslaught.
5 - Noble Blood / Oath of Will combo - early game, this combo is absolutely necessary for the resource regen. The barrier is too small to have any real value - it just invites a shieldbreaker dispel power to knock you down. The combo is used just for the regen, really. At end game, this power drops out of the knight's power bar entirely, once they get a good PCM weapon and good power efficiency training. Given that Blixtev has now said power efficiency nodes in the skill tree are going away, this is going to be necessary throughout a knight's life. Recommendation: Make the barrier a better percentage of maximum health.
6 - Chain Attack - no one calls it that - it's chain pull, and always will be. Great class-defining power. Relatively high cost, long cooldown (especially compared to myrm net), mediocre damage, but the pull effect is wonderful.
7 - Shield Slam - again, a good power in theory. In practice, it's so situational that I only slot it if I'm going to be fighting on the edge of a cliff or wall. It's extremely high cost, does poor damage, and knocks a target away from the knight (and as a melee class, you rarely want that). When used to knock someone off a cliff it's very satisfying, but it cannot justify a regular spot on the power bar. The elken and centaur charges are more effective versions of this power - they are gap closers (instead of gap creators) and their knock-up is just as good as Shield Slam's knock back.
Q - Whirling Leap - Again, better in theory than in practice. It pulls characters who are already within 5m of you right to you (it says 8m, but it feels much smaller than that). But the pull doesn't take effect until almost 2s into the animation for the power, so I frequently hit it, only to see one or more of my targets move out of the power's range before the pull takes effect. Recommendation: Increase the range to 10m, and apply the pull at keypress, before the character leaps into the air.
Races: Knight is available to Human, Elken, High Elf, Stoneborn, Rat, and Centaur. Until mounts come into the game, Elken and Centaur have an advantage in that out of combat movement feels so much better on trailmaster classes. I prefer human for the extra power bar slot and passive power slot, but rat stealth, high elf humiliate, and stoneborn knockdown response are all decent for knight.
Disciplines: Disciplines are pretty unbalanced for all classes at the moment. There are some very strong ones, and some very poor ones. I've noticed that class and/or role specific disciplines (Agent Provocateur and the champion-only majors, for example) tend to be stronger than general purpose ones. And unfortunately the knight gets nothing class- or role-specific in disciplines. Disciplines are a big enough topic for a hundred other posts, so I won't address them here.
So that's the objective layout of the class. Now for the subjective bits. The knight doesn't feel tanky enough to be a true tank, and is lacking an identity. It's not the best melee class at anything. I tend to play knight as a harasser because it does have a decent variety of crowd control powers. It has the poorest damage output of all melee classes. Comparing it to the other tanky melee classes: Champion is much tankier than a knight due to all the self-sustain. Myrm is tankier than a knight due to the self-sustain. Templar is tankier than a knight due to the self-sustain. Hmm, maybe the knight could use some on-demand self-sustain. Templar is the undoubted king of area control and area denial. The divine light and parry/AE knockdown (on no cooldown timer, doing a pile of damage on top of the KD) is crazy strong, and the templar can heal himself and others. Myrm has wonderful self-sustain (the half-giant racial is so kind to them for mitigating berserker crash) and much better damage output than the knight. Champion has great damage, great mobility, extra invulnerability powers (UW 1&2), and utterly amazing self-sustain.
Knight has plate armor natively, so at end game knight mitigations are very good (they're crap at early game, and the lack of self-sustain really shows the disparity between the knight and the other tanky classes at this point). Block further increases damage mitigation, but at the cost of making the knight do nothing but stand there blocking. Sure, he's taking less damage, but he's doing absolutely nothing to influence the fight. He's not protecting his allies, he's not doing damage, he's not able to move with his group. He's standing there (or inching along) like he's a spectator to the fight. So most knights don't block much these days. It's useful for the reflect on elemental attacks (but confessors are weak, and sickle druids don't come out until they get their sickle 2 months into the game. Frostweavers don't exist yet) - maybe block will have more value at release when those issues relating to energy-casting classes are fixed.
Finally, knight is really gimped by power efficiency in early gameplay. It gets much better at end-game, but at the start, a charge followed by a knockdown combo uses the knight's entire energy bar (or the knight may not even have enough energy to complete the combo if he uses a heavy weapon). It'd be nice to see power costs tweaked a little to make this less onerous during the first few months of a knight's life. Edit: With weapon finesse and power efficiency training, it's relatively easy to hit the -25% power efficiency cap. However, with that cap hit, wielding a bastard sword results in a +33% PCM, meaning that the bastard sword is completely unplayable for knights even at end-game. Blixtev or Halash, you really need to do a pass on power costs for knight and drop them significantly.
All in all, there's nothing really wrong with the knight - he's just not as good as the other melee classes, and is consequently the scrawny kid picked last for the team at recess. I would like to see you add some self-sustain to the knight to make him feel tankier (maybe put the self-sustain on block to give it more value). Give one or two of his powers more damage (and either remove twin assault entirely or make it worthwhile). Knight doesn't need an overhaul, but it does need a little love to make it a good choice for a group to take along.
Doesn’t atlas has horrible reviews? SB got hikacked by its distributor and it had a failed launch in part because of UBIsoft, I’d hope he doesn’t repeat that with CF.
It is still prealpha. When I gave them money I expected 4-6 years; I know how long it takes to make a game. CF isn’t a mass appeal MMO, it’s a niche game and I mean this from the bottom of my black decrepit heart: custard steam and custard fotm hogwash trends that lasso in gamers like the junkies we are. I’ve played WoW off and on since 2003, I’ve played DAOC, Darkfall, GW, GW2, Albion, EVE and SB; Sb was by far my favorite. It didn’t make the most money, it didn’t have the largest pop but it does have my favorite memories sitting in front a pc besides pornhub.
Please....just stop with these type of posts/comments. ABOVE IS THE PROBLEM WITH GAMERS TODAY IN MMO'S. You're basically stating its "boring and dry" but hey, you gotta drink alot of it before actually "enjoying" it.
No, there is a HUGE difference between farming mobs/npcs in a WELL CODED CHALLENGING combat game vs AN OBJECT THAT YOU JUST STAND THERE BEATING ON REPEATEDLY. Does a tree somehow threaten your character? Will it actually kill you? Or maybe those rocks you are pounding on and collecting pine-cones are going to attack as well?
I appreciate your feedback but this acceptance of something even LESS thought engaging is just not acceptable. In ANY product even outside of gaming. Unless I want to farm watching a movie/tv/netflix OR possibly just load my brain up on drugs...POUNDING ON TREES/ROCKS IS NOT THE SAME NOR AS FUN AS RISK/DYING TO MOBS WHO ACTUALLY FIGHT BACK.
And I OWNED a full city in Shadowbane Live as well as a guild. Having an NPC roll items while i'm out ACTUALLY DOING COMBAT is not the same as having me or my friends POUND ON TREES AND ROCKS FOR APPLES!!!!
If you think that there wasn't farming in SB, you either were not in a guild/nation that participated in a lot of banes, you duped a ton, or someone else in your guild was shouldering the work of farming.
If you are trying to differentiate killing mobs vs hitting nodes, both are about equivalent in how exciting they are to do. Which is really not very exciting at all.
Even with higher gold drop rates, banes/bulwarks/siege weapons/control rods were all pretty pricey. Some people just were not aware of that due to someone else doing a lot of that farming for them or putting a lot of work into open cities.
Even I’m not this prentious and rancorous. I’m need to up my anger skill tree.
Speaking as a diehard SB fan and hardcore pvp fanatic, even I can’t support most of your points. You want a moba or pubg and Skyrim’s bastard child. SB was still farming heavy. It was a mistake in SB to allow so many people to invest time into the 200 trash builds people would make not knowing the game. They need to at least mitigate the haves from custard over the have nots or the game dies just as quickly as SB; allowing noobs to invest weeks or months building some non viable trash and them leaving thinking everything is trash was one of the downfalls of 2003 SB.
What three major games? CU is RvRvR only so your allies and foes are predetermined. AOC is currently testing as a MOBA and the projected PvP is so watered down it can barely be called PvP. I can’t possibly think what you consider the other. If CF fails it will be because CF failed not Bc some other trash game stole its players. I’ve given money to all three; CF has the most to offer imo.
Yea there are lots of poorly made sockse games out there right now, it's hard to be a gamer when all the games are garbage. I think that's one of the main reason moba's are so popular, there are no persistent world mmorpg's with the right amount of PvP out there to hold the long term attention of adults. I get zero satisfaction of out killing the same boss for 10 weeks to get a new style sword to transmog my slowly rising gear level.
We haven't played GW2 since like the 2 or 3rd month after it was released. Right now the people of Condemned are kinda at a stand still waiting for a good game to be released after Wildstar became a let down during beta. I'm not saying Shadowbane players can't PVP cause to be honest I don't know anyone personally who played the game or said anything about the game.