Cordite

Wow...didn't realize it was 37 mins! Was having too much fun and ~ I see Anthrage's sneaky ways now (sitting up on top of that shrine)!

You guys are awesome! Gordon keeping it real. Hope y'all have a great Turkey Day!

Haven't finished the entire episode (whew its a long one)---great discussion so far: I'd like to add some post recording comments (sorry I missed the show I've been sick as a dog the last couple of days)- TTK vs. TTC should look more like ---- Resources Available vs. TTH vs. TTC vs. Automation. From my perspective this is the least developed Game Mechanic to date and one of the most vital. We can only see what they've show us in Test. In a game that has bag looting, item decay, building requirements and a decreasing availability of resources -- not to forget: competition for those resources -- Raw Materials are the Most Important subject for sustainability. Will resource fields be concentrated or spread out? Will there be enough yield to support X player base in the world band? Will "mines/lumberyards/farms" auto produce resources & at what quantity (i.e. automated Harvesting),...I mean the list goes on and on. Argument 1: Harvesting (if not automated) is going to require combat skills OR security teams. If it takes hours of play time to harvest enough resources [plus crafting time] to outfit 5 players let alone a guild of 50 or more.....those security teams are going to be bored to death. Security Patrols are hours of tedium and boredom punctuated by minutes of action if you are lucky*. If harvesting mechanics in Crowfall are going to be similar to typical MMO's, the majority of harvesting is going to be done solo or in small groups of 2-3 players. I cannot see "cut throat pvp" type personalities hanging out / protecting 2 or 3 harvesters or Caravans for hours on end waiting for something to happen. Everyone wants some action right? Lets go make something happen! The Point: Harvesters are going to need Combat skills just as much as Combatants. Even with VIP: Harvesters will only be able to train combat skills half as fast as player X who skips harvesting & crafting all together. The current 3 sphere system does not encourage people to be Harvesters or Crafters -- This is a MAJOR problem for sustainability of the game. It essentially forces all the Combatants to do their own harvesting & crafting. They need to do something different to "promote" the harvester / crafter play style. To me, the obvious answer would be to split Combat training out into a separate sphere. At that point - what is the value added by leaving grouping Exploration & Crafting in the same sphere? (To "limit" people from playing what they like? -- that does not draw MMO sheep to a PVP game!) Make it about choice. Let the player decide - don't limit their play style preferences. Split everything out into separate Trees. Control the VIP / Non-VIP perks with Training points - 3 for Non-VIP & 4 for VIP (assuming there's 5 trees). Argument 2: Automated Harvesting (mines, lumberyards, farms) & Caravans,....where is ACE at? If they do, will they provide x% of exotics? Will these be skills that have to be trained? (Will this be a new skill tree?) How long will the first few campaigns run - 2 weeks, 6 weeks, 3 months....? How will resources become limited? What will the range of "node ranks" be by band? {this is important because some bands will not have rares/exotics and will impact training choices in the harvesting trees ~ or will mines & quarries produce them} *Security Patrols: if you are actively engaged in the harvesting of a node ....you are not a Security team! A Security team should be actively scouting for & identifying threats, reacting to those threats, and providing a clear escape route for your goods! Yeah..its a suicide mission. A group coming to take your loot should be coming with greater numbers or they are just plain stupid. More to Follow.... Malekai.org - Awesome site guys, thank you for putting it together. Can't wait to see more stuff as we learn it - character stats and maybe a character builder app? OMG yes - fix the bloody tooltips please ACE! And a dictionary of what all the modifiers are and what they do!! Great Point about the disconnect on what this game aims to do by appealing to all the various types of Game play (RVR, full sandbox, etc...) This game needs Sheep. Right now - all we can play with is RVR in test. At this point in development its really hard to market that to the greater MMO community. Love the show, looking forward to the next one!

I second that recommendation. It wouldn't have to be "energetic harvesting" per se.....it could be "beneficial harvest" as a group buff for example. (or some other mechanic that gives a reward for grouping) BH 1 - for 1 extra member in group BH 2 - for 2 BH 3 - for 3...... I really believe there should be a distinct reason for grouping up as harvesters from Day 1 of a campaign. [I personally feel that reward should be quantity of doobers because 2+ harvesters may want to share the rewards]

That was really great! Glad to see work being done on the LMB methods so all can enjoy energetic harvesting. Request for future info dumps on harvesting: Can you do a deep dive on what all the modifiers are and what they do? Beneficial Harvest Beneficial Harvest Chance Beneficial Harvest Effects Beneficial Harvest Lifetime Beneficial Harvest Power Harvest Critical Amount Harvest Critical Chance Harvest Weak Spot Chance Plentiful Harvest Plentiful Resources etc... Thanks for the great work on making harvesting more interactive and interesting. P.S. All the Group Leadership modifiers too!

I'd like to piggyback on this and others comments above. I get it, I can see a need to keep exotics exclusive to Motherlodes and keeping rarer mats out of the hands of those who have not invested in harvesting ~i.e..getting those PH skill ups. As much as I don't like it, I can agree with the reasoning behind it. Node rank and Motherlodes control the loot tables ~i.e... quality of mats. But all kinds of obfuscation is going on when it comes to quantity - Critical Harvest Chance, Critical Harvest Amount Chance, Beneficial Harvest buff, harvesting potions, tools, crafting gear, runes, etc...All of which are buried down in the trees and are frankly confusing -- and won't see the light of day until weeks or months into a campaign anyway. (Beneficial harvest chance increases the Critical Harvest Chance to increase the harvest chance for a fountain of doobers? - I'm not even sure if I understand it now...) I feel like an opportunity is being missed in the current harvesting system. To me the KISS answer is to encourage group harvesting by scaling quantity on the number of harvesters who are focusing down a specific node. More harvesters = more doobers --simple. (If you want to keep it interesting for the min-maxer's and for giving purpose to the skill trees - keep all those additives as they are.) Right now, Group harvesting with the current mechanics says to me: Harvesters only need to group in order for their tools to do enough damage to defeat the motherloade's armor class. Exotics aren't even unlock-able until you check that box in the Excavation/Harvesting trees. So, for at least a few weeks if not longer - because crafters have to unlock the advanced tool recipes in the first place - no one really has an incentive to group harvest. Sure, they will group for protection - but most are going to harvest solo simply to make some basic fighting gear or whatever POI's require in the beginning of a campaign. In my opinion, there should be blatant / obvious / in-your-face incentive to group harvest. Train all the harvesters from the get go to group up - not 3 months from start (~because its the only way to get Exotics/Ultra rares).

Yeah, I'm sure its for testing. From what I remember from some of the initial concept video's was that POI's would be announced - possibly by a world "bell" or something similar. (things like mines, quarries, lumberyards, etc..) I posted some ideas in the 5.3 feedback section the day after posting this. I hope that scouting & maps are on the checklist prior to launch.

I think its fine. Lots of the items being sold can be crafted in-game...parcels, buildings, etc... We will probably be able to get the other stuff like mounts, shrines, statues somewhere in the CW as well. (Shrines and the Merchant pack pigs seem to be the only things I think give in-game benefits.)

Curious to know if the resource landmarks on the test map are just for testing? Or does ACE intend to make every resource node that isn't slag, cobblestone, knotwood a PvP hotspot? I can understand marking group nodes on a map that has been scouted post launch. And it gives scouts/cartographers things to do. Other games usually don't identify resource nodes on a map though. Anyone know?

At a minimum - put Class in the Profession sphere and make Combat its own sphere. Disciplines give plenty of opportunity to postpone class training.

Here's how I would tackle the VIP vs. Non-VIP / P2W argument: 1. Make every Tree independent (as of the moment that is 5 Trees) 2. Give Non-VIP's "3 trains" 3. Give VIP's "4 trains" ---as it is now in 5.3 VIP's are getting 6 trains vs. 3 trains (How is this less P2W?) 4. Allow double / triple dipping in a Tree. My philosophy on this is - its about choices. If you want to sacrifice a train in harvesting/crafting to double up on Combat - you better have some harvesting / crafting friends to supply you with equipment and weapons. (Or you are not training in Race or Class, etc...)

Here's the thing, they actually did something very similar to what I was describing above with 5.3 race/class split. Non-VIP has 1 "train" per sphere. VIP has 2 "trains" per sphere. ~Hence the incentive for purchasing VIP time. In my opinion there is a fundamental problem with this design in regards to Harvesting - read on. The argument for setting it up this way is that they don't want VIP to have a skills advantage vs. Non-VIP ---to remove the P2W conundrum---but they want VIP to be valuable. Its broken down into 3 spheres - the new spheres in 5.3 look like this: My greivance with the current system is this: If I want to be a Harvester in this game - I am forced to pay for VIP. Why do I say that? Because Harvesters will be exposed to combat from other players in order to get to the resources - and in the case of skinning it requires combat vs. animals. Players that want to focus on crafting or fighting do NOT have a need for 2 "trains" in the Profession Sphere. ~you don't need training in harvesting to be good at hitting a Myrmidon on the head with your hammer....you don't need harvesting to be good at making that hammer. So what -- How is this a problem? Well, the game's economy will depend heavily on resources correct? There is item decay / wear & tear, gear to replace when it gets looted from your corpse, fortifications and seige engines to be built, factories to run, and as a campaign progresses - resources will become less and less available, etc.... The way I see it is that the current system is heavily stacked against Harvesters. It effectively makes Harvesting a required secondary role for everyone. There is no incentive to be a dedicated "Harvester" in Crowfall--at least not one that can be as productive because you have to be able to fight and defend your resources at the same time as being able to collect them. Everyone will have to be a harvester with the current system. The argument I commonly hear in reproach is: Crowfall is a Group oriented game. Get a guild or harvest in a group and your problem is solved. I would say - Nuts! for two reasons: Traditional MMO's have "trained" / "engrained" / even encouraged Solo harvesting by design. For some people, it is a secondary role -i.e... something to do when your friends aren't logged on, or eventually to get all the purples/oranges you need for the Uber Hammer of Death you want, etc... However, there is a subset of MMO players out there who very much enjoy Harvesting as their primary profession. In my case, I enjoy being hunted while being the best harvester I can be. It's the same rush as being the "hunter". I relish the challenge of trying to escape with the goods. How many traditional Harvesters do you know who enjoy being chased and or killed & robbed of their hard earned work? Strike 1 as far as typical MMO Harvesters are concerned. {I am not "most" harvesters or I wouldn't have backed at the Sapphire level} Strike 2 - Why make it even harder, penalizing Harvesters by restricting them from the Combat Tree? ~want to be a harvester = pay for VIP There are strategies and times when Solo harvesting will be more productive than Group Harvesting. Five Solo harvesters can be very effective in 1 hour of harvesting time. Decentralized harvesting has a place and time in a PvP game just as much as Organized harvesting in a Group. Additionally, the premiere resources are accessible only through Group Nodes. Strike 3 - Why are exotic materials restricted to the realm of Group Harvesting? One thing I can say is - there is very little incentive right now for anyone who loves MMO harvesting to be dieing to play Crowfall. Unless they are slightly masochistic and enjoy the adrenaline rush (risk vs. reward) playstyle that Crowfall offers. This is bad. BAD for a game that will depend heavily on resources, item decay & destruction, and bag looting.

Grey = Poor White = Common Green = Uncommon Blue = Rare Purple = Epic Orange = Legendary

Oh man, hold the line was almost OP when you needed to block an entrance. It was a must have for defending keeps. Crowfall is a different game but with similar ideas. I haven't messed with the CF Knight so I can't contribute much to the thread. "Guard" would seem like a great addition though..maybe as a discipline. Would CF mechanics even accomodate a guard like ability (a single target buff/dmg split or is everything a group buff?)

Ah man, I wish I could remember how the Warhammer Blackguard's played. I had a ton of fun pvp'ing with one. IIRC the Ironbreaker was the best flat out tank.