Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...


  • Content Count

  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won


Everything posted by Deioth

  1. Long Live the Fighter passive from the Knife Grinder discipline is overwritten by the active skill Blood Strike from the Blade Master discipline. Is this intentional? Blood Strike also has a delay in damage application compared to the animation. It's very easy to break the final attack early and not apply the bleed at all, at least on an Elkin Templar. Speaking to Templar specifically, Certain Skills such as Holy Warrior prevent queueing up a parry, while most others queue the parry correctly. It tends to be longer animation skills near as I can tell that cause this, or perhaps buff skills in general. It can make Parry very clunky at times. Spamming Parry and its combo also seems to cut out those attack sounds completely which happens most commonly/reliably in PVE. Censure is remarkably unreliable. It will go only a couple feet going up hills and often will miss when ending when the enemy in as close as a 2m range and reticle over them, failing to damage or stun. Another unreliable skill is Throw Hurlbat for Champions. It throws based off of the direction your character is looking, not where the camera aims, making it unreliable if you're strafing or kiting.
  2. Indeed, with so much yet to be properly implemented, and a proper balance patch being rather overdue given the static nature of the meta (feels like W, HoA, and Clams is about 95% Crusader, Earthkeeper, Archer/Brigand, Inquisitor/Fanatic, and Alpha Warrior) it's an obvious waiting game. Since we're pending Frostweaver, Dregs, and guild bank as the big three next major pieces it's unlikely they can focus much on a tweak to crafting and other systems again for some time. All we can hope is that we've given them the feedback they need, especially considering the Dev reply giving me a serious "S-senpai... uwu" moment to reference a meme. Indeed, the passive systems feel like they deserve more in-depth attention on the whole. That is why some of the ideas in the original post included consideration of tier restricting as well as specialized crafting trees for components, weapons, armor, and more. It definitely feels like a vertical progression right now, like a lit fuse leading to a bottle rocket and suddenly you shoot straight up before another leveling out. It just takes a few months for the fuse to hit the powder. I'm really liking intent and creativity behind your ideas of tier focus and cost reduction and stat spread and restricting stats to tier maximums. Some of these maybe won't work in practice as offered, but others would go a long way to keeping things horizontal while further expanding how deep this already excellent the core crafting system is. Like, maybe you wouldn't necessarily be a great green boot maker, you'd just be a great leather armor smith while your guildie might be a great leather component crafter. Tier focused crafters seems novel but I'm not sure how well that could be implemented without getting convoluted, so simply requiring a certain amount of or point in the passive tree for a particular craft would simply unlock use of that rarity may be a decent compromise. Alternatively, the specialization craft trees could give special bonuses for rarity a bit similar to harvest specializations, or maybe material type would be the better choice there? Not only are you a master leather armor smith, you're a legend with soft hide in particular, perhaps? Regardless of their chosen route, they definitely need to play around with how to front load experimentation points, how points used adjust stats, how risk and experimentation improves stats, how to spread out available stats to craft (because another meta issue seems to be there are only a couple of "good" stats; for example, it's only worth getting crit resist on armor apparently?) and in ensuring new and intermediate crafters can still make things of value. If ~4 weeks ago (as we've been playing ~2 months) we all could have at least made greens comparable to decent world blue drops with a couple notches higher for the base stat (weapon damage, armor amount) then our new player retention and our experience would be markedly improved since we'd at least feel like we're achieving a sense of progression, even if we'd only be minimally competitive at that point rather than just about now finally approaching the top of the cliff. Personally, I think a good place to start tweaking and testing would be to heavily front load experimentation points and then require assembly and experimentation success chance for rarer mats and for experimentation risk. Points themselves would be more additive while high risk would be multiplicative. Risk and rarity would determine how many points can be applied to a single stat and increase the caps each stat can hit with a roll. Properly implemented, master crafters would be able to create gear with great focused stats and decent secondary stats given how the caps would work and the multiplicative nature of risky rolls. This way, newer crafters can make good one stat focused gear with some secondary bonuses while master crafters can make excellent focused gear and great multi-stat gear. I think they'll manage. With proper marketing and a solid core system, this game will fill a niche for PvPers that wanted more immediate substance, action, and direction than EVE and that doesn't involve looking at a cosmic void with a spaceship in it 99% of the time. Maybe not new, but the extensive and substantive nature of the feedback being far more than the typical "Passive training is something about socks" I most certainly hope is appreciated and will go a long way to giving them a much fuller picture. Half the reason we went Order wasn't just for hardcore mode or to introduce Player Three to the clearly growing stale dynamics of HAX and co getting a good win sometimes, it was also to try and experience this game in as much of a from-the-ground-up perspective as possible. We're experiencing a lot of what brand new players post launch risk experiencing and hopefully the feedback goes a long way to significant improvements as resources become available for them.
  3. You should endeavor to become the shredded wheat of Crowfall and rename your guild SWOLE. It's possible part of the issue is exacerbated by the fact wartribe gear can be as decent as it can be. But, that doesn't change the inherent issue with crafted gear in general in that you require so much assembly success and so many experimentation points to craft stats worth a damn and that it needs to be blue or better to even be worth the effort in the first place. MrErad's later response seems to attest to that. The system at its core is amazing. The depth put into it makes it so much more enjoyable and engaging than anything like WoW. But, the implementation needs a few more iterations for sure. The disparities are real and noticeable, regardless of balance issues like how OP ranger left click is right now there's still the fact that I'll take a Neckbreaker for 3k+ but then do less than 1K to someone in leather with mine, damage buffs active. The difference is real and the overhaul needs to allow for a viable competitive level to be met with green mats and no additives at an intermediate crafting level. Being able to direct the stats is a valuable start, but the base aren't strong enough. I can't imagine it would be that hard for them to cap out stat potentials on wartribe gear (capped at about current levels) and lift those caps for crafted by a fair margin. Even master blacksmiths should be able to make amazing green gear. Precisely how long it should take to get to a level of viability for crafters, I'm not sure. Maybe a month? But it should take dedication of, say, 6-8 months to cap out just the crafting aspects of any given crafting tree, and another 2 to finish off thralls. Seems fair enough to me, just throwing numbers out there, since this seems to be about where things would be if you consider our faster passive training. Once population is a thing and they can field multiple campaigns, my guess is they'll have "newbie" R7 campaigns that block you from importing epic or better gear and are white vessel only and may even restrict passive training (like, it disables trained nodes past a certain level). Veteran campaigns will go up to R10 without restrictions (but may require a certain amount of passive training completed). And then there would be the Dregs which would only be joinable at vessel level 30 and with a warning or something. As a brand new guild, we clearly shouldn't be forced to go up against Winterblades et al who are all minimum blue across the board (and many with significant combat passives trained). But, as things are now, all we can do is share our experience. It strikes me that ACE has not had the fortune of hearing an experience like this, certainly not at this level of detail, considering the responses we've received rather outright dismissing us have had a tendency to summarize as "l2p newbs, your fault for playing the empty faction, it's not the game it's you" as opposed to meaningful discourse or feedback. You seem to have a more open mind than some so I appreciate it (but consider reading the full thread before your next reply, eh?) "The Wet Noodle" custard perfect dude.
  4. Ape, I'm not sure what to say that I haven't driven into the ground with a few others. The core concern we have with passive training you seem to share, but you seem to be dismissing crafting issues we put forward. They need to resolve them. The most significant issue right now as that crafting requires too much time in it before anything can really be made of real value. The economy can help, once it exists, but as is new players are driven away and those giving it the time necessary can't really make anything worth it until near max. You effectively need the skill to succeed rolls of 15+ experimentation points and use blue mats or it's not worth it. And yes, gear makes a difference. You can tell. I've died in < 3 seconds from a geared ranger in wartribe gear. That same ranger took at least three times as long to die with an alpha warrior and archer focusing him hard both in good wartribe (Illusionist on both for damage boosts, too, if you were curious, so it's not a discipline issue, either). We've had 6+ people alpha strike one guy, all in wartribe, them geared, and he will take 10+ seconds to kill. That many doing the same to me, that are geared, in my wartribe? My healers don't even realize I took damage before I'm dead. In other cases, we alpha strike someone also in wartribe? They die. They actually die and in an appropriate amount of time. How much of that is also the combat passive tree I cannot be sure, but there's is a clear and noticeable difference when we fight players in wartribe vs crafted.
  5. You're not contributing to your argument if you're going to continue to dismiss our experience like this. And despite evidence we provide, you continue to act as if it isn't there. We're living examples of the problems facing the game's economy, crafting system, passive training, and overall new player experience and you're dismissing us out of hand because you seem convinced we're butt hurt we can't play to crush out the gate. And you continue to make core to your argument against us everything we already admitted to knowing and accepted going into it. We know we're new, we know we're small, we know Order isn't populated, we did it anyway because we wanted to. Find new talking points. This is pre-alpha. People should be here to test as much as they're here to play. Either debate us on the merits or kindly refrain from ad hominems and non-sequitors.
  6. There is no way to say this without coming off as condescending, but you continue to put words in our mouths and hear things we aren't saying. You also seem to think this is all entirely about wanting to be equivalent (we can't simply because of the population. We'll field 12 people between Eldritch and Spectre and be 80% of online Order, take a fort, and Clams or Winterblades alone bring 20 without even trying and that's an entirely different issue we already accept the reality of). A lot of this post's core feedback, which compounds the issue of feasibly reaching competitive viability in a timely fashion, has to do with the time gating of the passive tree and the baseline necessity of near max crafting because of just how many experimentation points and how much exp success you need to even make anything worth a damn. We can't put it much clearer than we have. The core feedback is: 1. The timegating in the passive tree is actively pushing away new players and needs to be addressed through various means; arguably this should include a supplementary active training component. 2. The crafting system is too backloaded requiring near maxed trees and needs an overhaul; new/intermediate crafters need to be able to make viable gear that is consistently better than wartribes using white/green mats. If these were problems were addressed, we'd have a very different experience to share and have a few more wins under our belts. We want to be competitive in PvP ("top end" guilds are irrelevant). We want to have a chance with numbers being equal. That simply isn't happening. We can tell if someone has good crafted gear or not. The difference is night and day. Someone geared by crafters takes significantly less damage from us, does significantly more damage than us, and heals significantly more than us. And that's without even knowing what their combat tree looks like. But, someone geared by war tribes? It's nice doing more than 700 with a damage buffed Neckbreaker. I've given plenty of personal examples of what differences gear/combat training can result in. It's quite demonstrable. If we could kit out with intermediate gear a notch or two above Wartribes, we'd be viably competitive. And if the wave of new players that show up to try Beta feel like they can't compete or catch up because of time gating or an inadequate backloaded design with crafting and give up within days/weeks, I hope we don't have to say, "We told you so."
  7. Something to consider, maybe between campaigns since we'll be hammering harvesting hard during spring and summer of the current campaign. Being able to see and test the differences in real time would help put things into perspective for sure.
  8. Quoting myself from an earlier reply to another responder: "[A]nd we're fortunate Spectre Legion has been sitting on Order with near maxed Necromancy to make GOOD vessels". MrErad hooked us up and the difference was night and day. To my knowledge, Vunak had already been talking things over with some of the offerings, but honestly Spectre Legion is already filling in our passive training gap (and now another guild that moved Order is offering assistance as well, much easier while on same faction ya know?) If by some fortunate chance of materials and dust we can kit a majority of our active members in weapons AND armor at the same time it'll be a night and day difference on friggen Mercury. I think W, HoA, and Clams (as the three most geared guilds) will suddenly realize Player 3 has entered the game and it's name is Order. I actually recall that recipes used to be time gated, too. I'm not sure how that's relevant to the topic at hand, however. No, you're adding words to my arguments and conflating what I am asking for by reading too far into what I've said. We should be competitive, not equal. There's a difference. And by competitive we're talking gear disparities. We're not only behind in that, we're behind in the Combat tree, as well. If you "sense" we're asking for an easy out or aren't interested in spending the time, you need to get your gut checked. The great majority of the guild's time in game has been harvest, harvest, harvest. We arguably spend more time on hunting kings/chiefs than PvPing because most fights are too lopsided for us to go roaming or fighting over forts and keeps so we're dedicating ourselves hard to getting what we need to compete. And no, I'm not asking to just "grind out mobs", the suggestion is that in-game activity gives you active points to allocate so that actually playing progresses you unlike the current purely passive skill tree. ANY activity that generates points on the Leader board, as well as harvesting and PvE, would generate active points. Maybe one third to half tops of a single 24 hours worth of passive training in the same 24 hour window could be actively trained and would require over 8 hours of constant play to cap daily active points. We're already "neckbearding" the game, bruh. Not our fault the passive trees and crafting system are in a bad state right now. To reiterate a since repeatedly conceded point, the current population makes accurate assessment of the economy quite difficult. That does NOT change the problems otherwise facing the current state of the passive training tree and crafting in general of which the current economy exacerbates. We're currently working towards getting crafting vessels ready and crafting gear prepped, as well as harvest equivalents. All of these things obviously are necessary to be the best of the best you can be. But, none of these things make up for the current state of passive training and crafting in general. You're still heavily time gated and there's still the problem of lack of value to low/mid-level crafting. Unless you're maxed (enough) with at least blue or better plus additives, it's not worth it. Mostly advice we've since been able to pick up, but I am offering my sincerest appreciation for taking the time to provide what you can. And to clarify, I'm maining alpha warrior, I'm not wearing leather, it was a pitiful crit neckbreaker against leather, meanwhile I'd take a non-crit neckbreaker of 2500 or 3k or something while Sturdy is active. It was to help accentuate gear disparity we've encountered. Apologies if I could have worded it better. Quite true. I'd rather be playing a Pit Fighter over Alpha Warrior but there's little place for "tank" specs right now, especially with our low population so we don't have room for such classes unless we can discover a solid synergy. We just lack the resources to properly test it.
  9. Hence why part of my post suggests significant changes to crafting so that newer crafters can make worthwhile white/green gear. Even if all they're doing is just picking the stats and getting a mere smidge more weapon damage and armor compared to good world drop rolls, this would create progression. I don't think I made this point in my initial post, but another significant problem the current system creates is that there is no progression whatsoever. It's not worth the mats, it's not worth the time, and without enough experimentation points (which means you need mostly maxed crafting) it's not even worth the gold from vendoring the result. We don't want to be in legendary gear right away. We want to be able to progress our gear with our crafting levels. We want to be in competitive gear and we should be able to make it with only a couple weeks into crafting. Then, we'd have an uphill battle rather than a climb up a cliff face.
  10. Maybe. Every time we get into a fight with a couple people it turns into a like 4v15 with the next encounter. Makes it even harder to learn anything when 90% of the fights we're grossly outnumbered 🤷‍♂️ The call goes out that there's PVP and we're effectively zerged lol
  11. Oh trust me, HAX and HoA and Clams have all just as easily wiped through us. As mentioned, it tended to depend on numbers and our healer status if we could come out on top, and some names we usually see were clearly on alts that weren't geared or were even white vessels (because they actually would take damage) in a few recent fights (mostly on Infected). There is a definite difference, though. Tactics aren't going to magically make our entire group focusing one guy kill him before he takes a 6K Rescue, or to reverse the situation result in our death before the rescue can even be aimed. The gear differences are clearly noticeable. I've done less than 1k on a neckbreaker crit to leather yet in mail I'll take a white one for 3k. We can tell who has gear and who doesn't.
  12. One week wouldn't be good because then why bother having the tree at all. Just make Crowfall the newest iteration of DayZ style survival games at that point. The problem is that the time gating immediately turned off new players in our own guild. The issue is that they couldn't access the gameplay they like which were the non-combat systems. Being time gated from being useful whether you play the game or not during that time is the issue. It is NOT how long it takes to max. This is why having an active point generation system that is added to for any activity would be an excellent compromise, cater to the game's original vision, and give the non-combatant types a reason to play and something to work towards. They PvP? They PvE? They harvest? They craft? The capture points? All these activity points can be put right into that craft or harvest tree and they are actually playing the game, rather than being immediately turned off and feeling sour about being sold something other than they expected.
  13. Not being negative. Just sharing our collective experience. To reiterate a few previous posts, it certainly feels like there are some major gear discrepancies showing up. We can tell when we're facing someone in lower grade or world gear because we can actually compete against them. Other people even at a numbers advantage seem to take nothing, or the healing on a target is very quick despite focus fire, then only a couple people go on one of our healers and they can't even cover half the incoming damage. We expected this, and I think I already said that. What we didn't expect was how problematic the current state of passive training and crafting would be so as to prevent us from generating some stop gap gear so we don't melt instantly or can actually damage through Sturdy and get kills and survive fights. We were expecting to be wrecked. At no point did I suggest I expected we could succeed let alone win with low numbers and as new players. We were also expecting to be able to catch up at a reasonable rate. Right now, it feels like rather than an uphill battle it's a climb up an oil slicked cliff. Once we break the top, sure, we'll be able to compete quite nicely, but that's the point: it shouldn't be a cliff. 1. Considering our experiences against comparable gear players, good gear players, and top end gear players, world drop gear is definitely not "minimum viable" if one player can out damage a healer's healing and one healer can out heal an entire group's worth of damage. At least, not at current populations and gear disparities. 2. We're not. I'm suggesting that ACE give value to such grade gear, at least uncommon, and for new to intermediate level crafters to be able to make decent greens better than world drop. Maybe not significantly, but at least enough to feel worth making at a mat cost that feels fair. When you consider how long training will take on retail, they'll need to have stop gap gear. 3. IIRC there are plans for older vessels to be used to add experience to better vessels. The introduction of vessel talent trees is a FECKING GOD SEND compared to what it used to be, as well. 4. That brings us to some of my other concerns. The mat costs are very significant, mostly dust. We all had to pool together thousands of dust just for a few vessels (representing at that point over a month of lots of harvesting, EandV streamed a lot of it even) and if not for Spectre Legion I'd have likely made some rather pitiful vessels (would have had no opportunity to have good crafting gear let alone a crafter vessel, Order doesn't have the population to hold keeps, among other issues). Hence why part of our suggestion is to see mat costs scale up when using things like additives and high level experimentation because as it stands now it feels like a waste of material without maxing out enough of your ass/exp chances and exp points. Current costs should be when doing everything, and reduce cost the less used and for lower grade. We also found what you linked weeks ago and have relied on it, so kudos for the great resource! 5. We can tell. Winterblades shows up and they can 1v5 us basically. Tyrannical that damn SOB is just straight up wrong what he can do and survive 😋 Hax we could actually do something against, even Clams nowadays, depending on numbers and if our healers logged off. We're nearly there for craft/harvest levels and getting closer with mats for a solid blue kit, but the climb is a cliff and that's just not good NPE. 6. We started Balance as we always planned to. We went Order with the hopes of getting that third faction off the ground given the game's current population balance. We're getting there and I'm proud of what we have managed to do and accomplish. 7. Can't speak to that DM. Consider doing it again on Discord if you can. Naturally we need to learn the crafting system itself. That isn't the issue we're pointing to and aren't expecting to kit out in purples, but there seems to be a lack of reason to kit crafted greens. It's either blue with additives and lots of experimentation points or it's not worth the dust.
  14. @vkromas We sincerely hope our experiences and this post help you guys bring things better into line. This game has a ton of potential. We're having a lot of fun, at least, and we're nearly there for crafting skill trees (assuming there's not a wipe as soon as we get there LOL) so everyone will get to find out just how much difference there is. We look forward to seeing how things work out and thanks for keeping tabs on us all outside the dev partners forum hah!
  15. And plenty of people have tried it and quit quickly because of that time gating. Crowfall risks the exact same thing. There badly needs to be a mix of active training so people feel value in playing, especially since it takes so long to get really deep into any tree (not just crafting). We're discovering some quite arguably serious issues with the game's current state because of our unique position as a new guild. Even IF there was an economy we could engage with and be competitive through that, there still are the problems facing the time gating seriously restricting player gameplay options (unless they are willing to twiddle their thumbs long enough). There would still be the problems facing mat costs for lower grade gear and a lack of value to lower grade gear, and for newer crafters to even have anything worth crafting.
  16. New guild, and resources are extremely limited given this is a prealpha game. We were fortunate to even discover that disc was a thing. We went into Order fully expecting to be alone. Imagine now that we didn't get Foreman. Imagine now that we didn't have a small and established crew to work with. Then tell me again with a straight face that you could recommend the economy in its current state. I think I've more than conceded in my initial post and responses that the economy as it stands now does make things more difficult to assess as fully as they should be, so imagine this from the perspective of going into Dregs. Imagine we were a brand new guild eager for a hardcore experience and realizing that the game actively prevents us from competing. Because of passive training, crafting issues, material costs, and gear disparities we cannot hold our own even if we manage an advantage in numbers. This risks being the experience of other new players and guilds come retail. The source of these issues needs to be addressed now while there is still time. If we didn't need to craft "at all" and the warcamp drops are supposed to be the intermediate step, then the power difference between world drops and crafted goods is too wide. If we don't need to craft "at all" then this gap should be narrowed significantly. Since this game by design intends for crafting to be an integral part of the experience, giving more value to world drops is a bad idea. They are starter equipment and should be nothing more. So, yes, we DO need to craft--as a guild--but the game's inherent designs between the passive tree, the material costs, and the ineffective gear new crafters can create is then requiring us to rely on an economy that isn't established and we cannot afford. Even if the economy were sound, we are time gated from effectively gathering worth while trading materials, but then even after we gather them that ensures we have nothing left for ourselves when we actually CAN craft something worth while. I've crit a neckbreaker on leather for less than 1K using only world drops while I've died in 4 left clicks from a god damned ranger. Almost entirely world gear (other than vessels) and a group of 9 can't complete a kill against one leather wearing duelist (stealth plays a factor, we didn't have an anti-stealth at the time, but being wailed on that hard and not dying? Seriously?). Meanwhile, we're stared at and are at half health and our healers can't keep us alive. We get someone to half health 10 of us hitting him, he's Rescued to full instantly while our healers rescue for less than a white damage neckbreaker we take in response. Five of us with two healers couldn't out damage the heals of ONE earthkeeper or out heal the damage of ONE brigand. This is what the gear disparity has felt like. Sounds an awful lot like we need to craft but the game effectively isn't letting us because of flawed design. This is the experience we have had. Recruits--brand new players--are leaving because of gear disparity and time gating we have no means of compensating against. Make no mistake, we fully expected to have an uphill battle. We actively want it. But, we expect an uphill battle we can actually climb, and the current iteration of crafting and harvesting all stemming heavily from the current iteration of skill training has ensured that we're climbing not a hill but an oil slicked cliff. I don't think it's asking too much that after nearly two months in as a fresh guild that we should be able to establish ourselves on at least some level of competitiveness, that we can at least fight back, and currently it feels as if a hopeless cause. We're getting closer, early October probably, to being at the level we need to be to make the gear we need, but that's only because of the increased passive training speed. Imagine this experience in retail when it is significantly slowed down. This is why we need these issues fixed now before it is too late to change these systems.
  17. All true, but this does not compensate for not being near maxed crafting. These also do nothing for the other inherent problems I detailed. The passive tree has actively pushed new players away from the game. An active system, even a mild one (that would be balanced to be only somewhat faster than passive training alone), would go a long way there. If on retail it would take, say, 6 months to 100% Crafting Basics and one entire crafting tree, the active training would reduce it to maybe 5 months with dedicated play (a few hours per day average), meaning all active generated points are going into that craft's skill tree. Your list also does nothing with regards to the issue of material costs themselves. Perhaps part of that is a result of the pre alpha training speeds because to make anything now is a bad idea given material costs (we'd only effectively double and more on dust costs and the few blue vessels we have now were well over 700 dust each and weapons/armor are similarly expensive; that is a lot of mat grinding). But, keeping in mind the pre alpha training speed is also the sole reason we're able to harvest at any adequate rate in the first place! I should be max Necromancy sans thralls by the beginning of October so that's about two months total. That isn't terrible given the game's current state, but the passive training time gate itself is still a turn off. No brand new player could ever hope to catch up to veterans on EVE, and if they are a craft minded player then they effectively have no reason to play the game for months at a time (it's a real problem for EVE with new player retention). Crowfall is at great risk of experiencing this exact same problem and catch up mechanics simply won't be enough. Eldritch, as a new guild, is a prime example of this problem happening right now. Again, there is no economy right now of any meaningful sort. This certainly causes an issue and much of that is the prealpha state and the low player pop which makes it hard to accurately critique the whole experience. However, you seem to be taking this entire post as one guy ranting about having a bad time soloing. This has been a guild experience. This post reflects our concerns, problems, frustrations, and feedback as a guild. You also seem to be misrepresenting the suggestions given flat out. We're not asking for no-life grinding. We're asking that the time gated passive tree be supplemented so players, especially those only really interested in crafting, have something to actively work towards. As things stand currently, there really isn't. You already have to grind your head off for mats and for chief/king craft books and craft equipment drops. An active training to supplement the passive tree would be a huge boon to player retention. And then, beyond that, we strongly believe there needs to be tweaking done to mat costs and how the crafting trees line up so that green and intermediate levels of gear can be crafted that is better than camp drops without needing additives, craft equipment, (near) maxed crafting, and mountains of dust. The lack of any meaningful, feasible, and accessible way to kit out our guild in some stop-gap gear (especially when considering import/export restrictions and durability loss) to help us be some level of competitive against established players and guilds has further contributed to our reasoning behind this post and our feedback.
  18. Irrelevant. The point is, she couldn't actively work to become one. It's entirely time gated. And the game's current iteration effectively punishes you for crafting without significant passive investment given resource costs. Had she been able to work within a reasonable amount of time to become an effective crafter, she'd still be playing, but with that having been her biggest interest the game's very design pushed her away. Imagine how much worse it will be for players like that when passive training is set to the much slower pace they intend for release? No, that is not active whatsoever. There also is effectively no economy to speak of because the population is too small for that, and new players are flat out NOT going to be able to amass thousands of dust or dozens of embers to trade to established crafters for the good stuff (and no crafter is going to waste good mats on lesser gear to trade for gold, either). We're fortunate we were able to find some Foreman discs for sale or we'd only just now three campaigns later maybe be gathering minerals from motherloads, and we're fortunate Spectre Legion has been sitting on Order with near maxed Necromancy to make GOOD vessels or we'd have spent a ton of mats on barely better than white vessels because three campaigns in and I'm not even 50% Necromancy. Those facts aren't proof of the system working, those facts are proof the system is failing, because without those things we'd still have nothing and be nowhere. The current iteration of purely passive training, requiring tons of rare mats, and needing to be maxed out in crafting to actually make proper use of said mats is simply not good design. There are no stepping stone intermediate levels that can be feasibly or adequately reached as a new guild and as new players that would prove a clear upgrade over mob drops and allow us some potential to compete against more established players and even if there was the game lacks a means of actually getting there other than sitting on our hands for weeks on end waiting for the game decide we can. That needs to change and quickly.
  19. Eldritch has come into 5.100 in a very unique position. All of us are effectively brand new players (despite some having dabbled in previous versions, our passive trees still had very little in them). This gives us a perspective the veteran players and guilds simply don't have and that, we believe, ACE lacks serious data on. As fun as it has been, despite all the trouble and issues (and pushing Order because come at us bro get rekt), we've been privvy to an experience that absolutely MUST be addressed and quickly (i.e., before Beta at latest). It's certainly one thing that we're new. We have a lot to learn. We don't know the best way to build specs or the best disciplines, but we're learning. We don't have the best comps, but that's just how it goes being this new and small. We don't know every in and out of crafting and harvesting, but we're learning. There are a lot of balance issues in general and since we lack any possibility of useful crafted gear any time soon it's also quite telling how all of this together can reveal just how lopsided fights are against well geared guilds and well built players. All of this is something we expected and something we are content to tolerate. What we did not expect and cannot tolerate is what the passive training tree and crafting system generally has resulted in. Granted, in pre-alpha we can't expect an economy (especially on a faction where we've become half the population of as a guild of, what, not even 12 active players?), and maybe on release it won't be quite so bad. However, that does not change the fact that our experience as a new guild has revealed some serious flaws with Crowfall's current design. There are some real problems with how the crafting system currently works in general. There's a pointlessness to crafting anything but blue and better gear. There's also a pointlessness to crafting anything without being near or at max crafting skill and experimentation points. This means we can't feasibly create any kind of intermediate gear to help us compare to those already kitted out in blues and better. But, that isn't the worst of it. The worst of it is the passive training tree itself. This tree alone has already pushed away three or four recruits from even bothering playing the game. One in particular dove in expecting to be able to become a great crafter, right up until she discovered the passive tree and how it works. She hasn't logged in since, neither Crowfall or our guild Discord. Another, realizing just how long it would take to catch up in any meaningful way with gear, has likewise stopped playing after about three days. All of this, if the systems remain in place as they stand today upon release, will guaranteed push away many players and risk killing this game before it even begins. A catch-up mechanic will not fix this. The problem is inherent in the current design of the crafting system in general requiring the crafting equippables, all the additives, and thousands of Dust to kit out a single person (therefor you screw yourself by crafting without crafting maxed and at least blue mats/additives), as well as the time gating of the passive training itself. I'm sure we all know and understand the purpose and intent of the passive training system, but in its current iteration it simply does not work whatsoever. There is also the issue of veteran players simply being able to fill out everything given enough time, thus killing any real hope of specialization in roles (combat/harvest/craft). After some discussion, we've come up with a few ideas for changes that we feel need to happen. Simply Add Active Training. This will help, but only to a point. This game's very nature doesn't lend itself well to the “craft 1,000 daggers” approach like WoW or Skyrim et al. Still, an active training aspect is absolutely crucial to ensure players don't feel entirely locked behind a time gate, allowing those that play consistently to build up their crow skills. The basic idea is, so long as you're engaged in an activity related to the tree you're training in, you'll gain points faster. Add Skill Levels and Limit How Many Can Be “Mastered” This will help with the specialization, but one issue will be that if new players think they want to go one way and decide they do not like it we'll need some kind of respec mechanic. This would certainly give gold a good sink. You would have so many levels you can train, maybe you can train everything up to “Journeyman” which might be, say, level 3 of 10, which means you'd only be so far into each main tree. Meanwhile, the 10th level of “Master” maybe you can only pick two, and only pick 4 for the maybe 6th level. And yet, a lot of players may like having lots of characters for lots of builds and situations, or like harvesting and crafting a lot and what to engage with all of it. If someone wants to give it the time, they certainly shouldn't feel like they're being pigeonholed. That brings us to idea #3. Give Vessels Their Own Passive Skill Tree Nobody should feel pigeonholed. Plenty of players like having alts. Certainly, no one should be able to master everything, but mixing in the vessel itself into the equation will allow people to stretch out in a few ways, such that only those that truly focus on specializing will completely fill out certain trees. So, you might hold out on Journeyman level--to use the above example--on your Crow, but each Vessel might still be able to choose one Master of their own so long as your Crow hits a certain level of that skill. But, to truly specialize, you would need to Crow and Vessel Master on the same skill tree, or some equivalent. With these ideas together, we think we have a solid recommendation to try testing with: First, determine a maximum pool of Skill Training Points. Players will still have their passive training, but now every single action generates a usable active point. PVP, point capture, harvesting, crafting, war tribes, all of these activities provide a certain amount of actively generated points. Players then allocate as they see fit on the Crow tree or the Vessel tree. Eventually, a player will hit the maximum points on their Crow, at which point a certain amount can still be actively trained on a per vessel basis. So, lets say (for sake of example) you can gain a total of 6 million points on your crow, while a vessel can train up an additional 2 million. This will do a few things: Players can actively play and get better/stronger at whatever they want to simply by playing, players can specialize without being able to get everything, and players will have some wiggle room to split off and enjoy alts without severely pigeonholing themselves (so even a crafter heavy crow, for example, can still have a good combat character, they just won't Master any Combat skills). This could work where you can only Vessel train from however far the Crow has, and adding points to the Crow for the same nodes would free up those points from the Vessel. Players won't be able to pace through a single tree any faster than anyone else, either, with this because you would pull from a single point pool; you'd merely be choosing Crow or Vessel to allocate to. With this introduced, and having an extra however many points that can be Vessel-specific, we could see the re-introduction of the Race tree allowing players to fill out minor buffs for each race like increased stat caps and minor general craft and harvest buffs (or, at least each race group, so Human, Elf, Monster, Stoneborn, Guinecean) Second, greatly expand and refine the skill trees as they exist now. Harvesting as it exists currently feels pretty good with respect to specialization so it doesn't feel like there's much to do to enhance this. The parts that could use some expanding is Combat with a near total overhaul applied to Crafting. Combat should be split up a bit and restructured a bit, having the Weaponry and Armor branches as they stand now, but making some changes as specified further below. Crafting needs to be restructured almost entirely and have new branches added in as detailed below. For Combat, simply tweaking and fleshing out more options will be sufficient, but overall it's adequate as is. Consider introducing three new trees that require Armor and Weapons maxed to reach. These would be named along the lines something like Warrior, Specialist, and Medic. These would provide passives dedicated to benefiting DPS specs, tank/CC utility specs, and healing specs respectfully. For Weapons, consider swapping things around, you choose One Handed Combat, Two Handed Combat, Melee Mastery, or Ranged Mastery along with an additional three Mastery trees: Organic Mastery, Physical Mastery, and Elemental Mastery. I feel like this might split things a bit better but that's just a whatever. This isn't anywhere necessary we don't think, but it would be nice to see this expanded, especially if the point cap and vessel points are introduced so players can better specialize. Now, the part that needs the absolute most work of all: Crafting. The overhaul here isn't just going to be the passive tree, either. This also will need to include some real tweaks on material requirements and other costs based on the rarity tier being worked, if additives are being used or not, and to also ensure that every level of commonality (except maybe white?) is valuable to craft with for gear. First, you should need to unlock access to make items of a certain grade, requiring a certain amount of the tree unlocked to reach each level (e.g. you can't craft with Blue materials/components until you unlock that node). This will give players good milestones to reach and make sure newer crafters know their limits. Second, crafter gear (like necromancer goggles) should also require hitting a certain crafting level in that crafting tree. This will help make master crafters stand out, but with things balanced out so non-masters can still contribute useful stuff. Third, dust and ember costs need to be offloaded more towards utilizing those items so that players can make good use of lesser quality ingredients without using up nearly as much dust/ember resource so they can still make decent gear. As it is now, even if you didn't need to be a master to make great gear, you're only hurting yourself crafting greens/whites because of the amount of dust needed, or without additives because the benefits are too good. Green grade non-additive gear should still have value to make and not be too expensive for mat/dust requirements since as things stand now there is no “stepping stone” intermediate gear anywhere comparable to even master crafted blue and that makes gear disparity problems even worse. Fourth, experimentation points should be frontloaded on the tree so you get more experimentation early to help with crafting decent lower grade gear, while further mastering crafts improve your risky experimentation to max out high grade gear. Fifth, requiring hitting the final Mastery node of any appropriate craft should unlock additional specialist crafting trees: Component Mastery, Weapon Mastery, Armor Mastery, Tinkerer (experimentation and crafter gear focus), and Taskmaster (Thrall focus for when Thralls are ready to go). Hopefully, this assessment will be taken to heart, and a serious overhaul of these systems will be worked on. No one should feel pigeonholed, no one should require master crafting or days of dust/ember grinding to get reasonably competitive gear, and no one should be time gated from feeling useful or doing what they want to do.
  20. There are ways to keep the passive tree in place, but it's not just the time gating. They need an active system of some kind and the nature of this game wouldn't lend well to a traditional "craft 1000 daggers" kinds of grind. It's not even so much a matter of needing new crafters to at least be able to make worthwhile green gear, it's that they need to be able to make it in the first place without needing to sit on their hands for three weeks doing nothing and maybe finally crap something out that's better than a king drop because the game decided to congratulate them on their patience. It would also require another pass at the passive tree to ensure players can properly specialize. Somewhere between the account level and the character level there needs to be a means to specialize because as it stands now it's only a matter of time before veteran players effectively can do everything.
  21. The NPE when it comes to harvesting and crafting is terrible. The NPE if you're NA and pick Order or Chaos and hope to win fights is terrible. Some of this is prealpha and the inevitible population issues with such an early state of the game among other things. Some of this is a serious issue that needs addressing immediately through dramatic changes made with a serious emphasis on testing different approaches and finding better alternatives. The passive tree is a good idea on paper. The problem is it is bad in practice. Eldritch has already had three or four recruits straight up not bother playing after experiencing the current state of the game, some because there's no possibility to compete in PvP due to drastic gear differences (among other balance issues, Sturdy being a big one and disciplines in general badly needing their trees and a serious pass) that are months worth of time from comparing to, while others are leaving because they want to be crafters or harvesters and the time gating makes that impossible. The current state of the game for us would have even further been exacerbated if we weren't lucky enough to find two Foreman for sale on GR. The current state of crafting in particular is made even worse by the complete lack of value in green crafted gear and in effectively requiring (nearly) max crafting to make anything of real value. Suffice it to say that the passive training needs a massive rework. A catch up mechanic simply won't be enough. The time gating is going to be a serious turn off to many people and that will kill this game. It will certainly help for the faction war campaigns having better population numbers so new players can feel valuable as an extra body, but if they want to feel valuable as a player then the game currently does not make that possible due to the time gating of the passive tree. God's Reach has been invaluable, but the current state of crafting and the passive tree in general mean you aren't going to be getting much farther for a looong time and aren't going to have much fun or success PvPing unless you gravitate to the overpopulated faction and join the established guilds. At the rate things are going just in the current campaigns, once Dregs comes out there won't be anyone to fight.
  22. The restricted hotbar and limited inherent skill set already guarantees it would never be quite like Tera where you chain CC and damage combos to basically one shot people. Tera had shorter cooldowns and a lot of skills, especially for sorcerer. That is fine. They still could have had a tighter, less ESO floating combat system without completely barring those who can't get out of Silver in Overwatch or something. I'm missing people with slows on them. It's ridiculous. I miss skills because they're just off center or they move left when I was aiming/running right. It's frustrating. Knowing you missed because YOU missed or you actually got outplayed I feel like is a rather critical aspect of an action oriented non-tab target kind of combat system.
  23. They didn't work at it as long as they should have. While I didn't get a chance to play the greybox combat test, from what I've heard the issues seem to be that it was just too bare bones to flow the way something like Tera does. Animation lock would last too long, there wasn't enough in place to combo or break a lock, and it lacked a sense of momentum resulting in a very static feel. Now, it's just ESO all over again, a floaty and kind of unfulfilling combat because it lacks a sense of skilled play. Tera had a good PVP combat experience. It didn't necessarily mean it was a PVP MMO. They kept trying to add good systems but the executions were always a little off and with the TTK in that game being what it was if you lacked the gear to take down your target quickly they'd usually get healed back to full in an instant. Good, competent skill-based play meant you could overcome that or manage around it in a lot of ways depending on the situation. Crowfall is seriously lacking in that respect right now. A geared archer 3 shot me in mail with just left click. Meanwhile, my neckbreaker crits him for 800. At least with skilled play in Tera I could juke and dodge his attacks, force a mistake, land a good combo, and play it careful and safe until I beat him. It's fine if Crowfall isn't trying to quite go that heavy (though it still worked quite well in Tera's large scale PVP) especially since they clearly want a longer TTK compared to most MMOs, but it's kind of a mess right now. Improving skill based play between ranged and melee would not be a bad thing. Tera's ranged combat, using Archers as a base line example, was generous without feeling inaccurate. Ranged in Crowfall right now is so generous you hardly need to aim. I'd like for them to, now that many systems are in place, try revisiting it all and experiment again with animation lock mechanics but I doubt they will this late into the development. They needed to keep iterating from the beginning because by now they could have had an incredible facsimile to Tera-style action combat. There is a lot they could still try, though, and really make it work. At the very least, if they fix the current issues plaguing melee (probably the easiest and most effective fix being to just make most or all melee attacks cleave up to so many targets (basically giving everything Spirit Whip by default) with a wider cone of effect to account for off-center due to the game's movement and restrictive "moment of impact" abilities have) we can then reassess and see how it feels, but I really wish there was a bit more potential for personal impact since the current system of hit detection is just wonky and inaccurate across the board.
  24. Tera, certainly in its hayday, had bar none the best damn PvP MMO combat experience of any MMO ever. With every class more or less being very learnable but having high skill ceilings, having a solid balance between precision and leniency for landing hits, relying on personal skill and tactical play both, along with a lot of mechanical knowledge required to truly master a class, you had plenty of average and above average players that could still reasonably compete. I'm rather upset they went a more ESO style combat system as opposed to Tera. The current system has very little consistent use of anything other than left click because other skills are mostly for their buff/debuff effects than damage in the majority of cases. The current system doesn't offer much in the way of personal skill compared to Tera. Gear almost matters more in this game than Tera, especially when you consider certain things like range distance bonus, lack of iframes, and the very left click heavy gameplay restricting opportunity for personal skill to shine. They could quite reasonably bring in a tighter, more tactful, yet also more fluid system of combat. Right now, it feels like the game plays the way Wildstar should have from the beginning with only slightly less of a sensation of ice skating around the battlefield. They could have and should have done more. With that said, the current iteration is nowhere near where it should be even if they stick to this style until release. Ranged accuracy is TOO generous, while melee is too restrictive and is easily punished just by virtue of lack of body collision let alone how much movement there is that translates into just missing because they're some smidge off center. It's just clunk as hell right now. Just glad this is pre alpha since they have real opportunities to fix all this once they finally finish Frostweaver, make some balance passes, and revamp disciplines.
  • Create New...