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Decoy

Testers
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About Decoy

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    Piapiac

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  1. The problem is that the devs might not be able to rework it to the point that multiboxing doesn't have that huge an advantage without rethinking their whole design philosophy of account specialization (or provide other methods for attaining the ability to train multiple universal skills at once through something like VIP or some ingame mechanic). So unless someone has a better idea, the people who love the specialization concept are forcing themselves to praise it despite the infeasibility of it all and stick their heads in the sand on how big of an imbalance it creates.
  2. Campaign rules vary and people multibox in PvP games all the time. And stating an assertion isn't the same thing as proving a point.
  3. You can still send that kind of crafted gear to your other characters (even if not at all qualities at first, and it won't take much to give your combat character minimal vessel training for simply equip qualifications). Multiboxers can play multiple characters at once and wouldn't even need to swap between the combat toon, not to mention the separate gathering inventory at your disposal. Leadership buffs are shared in party, a party you can be in with yourself. I'm sorry but the benefits FAR outweigh any negatives you might be able to think of later.
  4. You are missing the point because you still didn't explain how it is any different for the player in either situation as far as what they are able to actually do, which is the whole point of the damn limit. Yes "by adding a second general skill to any account you double what a single account can do," but that is already the case anyway in regards to what I, as a player, can do. Upon adding a second specialization per account, the player can do more than one specialization activity on the same account, but the player can only do one specialization at a time, leaving their other skills idle.. you said this yourself in regards to alts but it applies in both situations. You didn't realize that you were arguing against yourself here. When we consider that multiple specializations per account is functionally the same for the player as the current system of incentivised multiboxing, we are just pretending that a separate login and extra inventory space and avoiding a monthly fee is somehow some huge hindrance that makes the current system somehow more acceptable. Then the current incentivised multiboxing system and kingdom shop is very P2W by your logic. And it is fortunate the gaming industry doesn't use your extreme definition of P2W or they couldn't keep the lights on.
  5. If I trick the game into thinking I'm two separate people with two different account specializations, yes, I have bypassed the specialization limit. It might as well not exist. How is it less acceptable having two specializations on one account instead of two separate accounts with one specialization each? Since you justify it by saying I'm idle in one specialization when preforming an activity under another, doesn't that apply to both situations based on your logic? If I'm in a fight/siege, are my crafting specialization skills not idle, no matter what account those skills exist on? In a way, it is no different than being allowed multiple archetype trees at once, since you aren't going to be rolling around as a DuelistLegionnaire at the same time, you pick one until you swap. It is just ridiculous to keep reading in this thread how people believe having multiple specializations is only imbalancing if they are registered to the same user login.
  6. pay for convenience (the lessening of time sinks) is not pay to win. Many subscription games provide cuts to the time sink via subscription model, including things like resource boosters in gathering, duration reductions for lockouts in various other types of farming, exp bonuses, faster training (as Crowfall is doing with archetypes). Typically this sales practice involves still pushing the gamer through the game processes they would already go through anyway, but bolstering the outcome so it takes less time. It gets so tiring having this debate every time a new game comes out as if every developer needs to be deathly afraid of any forum-goer's extremist definition of P2W.
  7. Hardcore players and average players exist in the community now and a year from now hardcore players and average players will be joining the game for the first time. It isn't really going to change the numbers, not unless you want to make some hogwash assumption that hardcore players are the early adopters and the later adopters are predominantly casual.... in which case, I'll be laughing at you more than arguing with your assertion. Incorrect. The argument was how multiple accounts are better than VIP when it comes to buying advantages in-game, both in terms of cost and what the player actually gains from the experience. Nobody was arguing that nobody would buy VIP because of this, but instead arguing that the lacking value in comparison to a second account hurts future VIP sales. Of course people will still buy VIP, people make stupid financial decisions all the time. No, all you did was show that a majority of the players are not hardcore, which we already knew. The fact that one-third of the playerbase *IS* hardcore enough to get a second account is what is holding your arguments back. I said nothing of the sort. What I said was that no game with an optional subscription gets anywhere near one-third of the playerbase to support it in such a way. It isn't a controversial statement.
  8. Isn't surprising that the multi-boxers are a minority, hell you the one who claimed most people won't be "hardcore" enough to buy multiple accounts. I think it actually hurts your point that as many as 1/3 are looking at possibly buying multiple accounts, that is a huge portion of the player-base. But this is hardly the crux of the matter. The point of the thread was how undesirable VIP is. I think it is safe to assume nowhere near 1/3 of the player-base is going to continue a VIP subscription. Games with optional subscriptions never do that well even when they do have amazing benefits. It isn't "specialization" that will be battling rampant inflation though, especially if one-third of the playerbase is bypassing specialization entirely. Same is true with the increased value of crafted items. Specialization simply decreases the pool of access for those that will benefit off selling, but it won't change the desirability of the item if the items are being supplied at a quantity enough to match consumption. Item decay, on the other hand, is a great idea and it alone would get the credit for the benefits you discuss. Nobody is talking about removing item decay, it is irrelevant to the thread. Yet a fairly large portion of the player-base will want to attempt to "do everything," or at the very least do more than one thing that the current system doesn't allow via a single account. This all goes back to my earlier points about the flaws in the system, how ineffectual the limitations will actually be. You don't have to keep repeating the developer's intent, we all get it. The point is, the intent won't match reality and the developers are being naive if they think they will get what they want in this respect.
  9. ....like that does anything to address the point. It is moot. One month, one year, one decade... the point is the existence of a bypass to that wait, however long it may be.
  10. Actually, many of us backed way before this iteration of the training system, the initial description/concept was a lot more shallow and didn't even go into specializations beyond specializing your individual "characters." It looked way different when we got it and it looks even more different now than it did over a year ago. The system changed... as it should. You back with that understanding that the game is very very early development and nothing you see is set in stone, as I did. The malleability of the game right now is a big part of why people even come to the forums right now, to see it change and be a part of that change. It would be silly to back a pre-alpha product and think what we see on the client screen is the game from now til launch.
  11. How? Most MMOs have the ability to learn all crafting professions on a single account and it doesn't break economies, typically because there is a time and energy investment in doing it all yourself. Obviously it isn't the only solution you've seen because you just repeated a middle-ground suggestion. And could I not just use your own argument to defend the change by saying that the compromise would reduce the instances of multi-boxing? I would also argue that the suggestion isn't necessarily coming strictly from those who want to "do everything." A lot of this is pushback is coming from those of us who find it shortsighted and relegate the gamer-base to the choice of being able to craft at the expense of gimping oneself in combat while supplying gear to people who won't suffer those negative effects. The best suggestion I've heard is just deleting the combat universal entirely, migrating the general combat-focused training aspects into the archetype training. We are asking not to "do everything" but to "do less." I would also add that this would also greatly increase the value of VIP all on its own by making archetype training better while still having it as a sidegrade bonus, all the while making multiboxing less valuable as there is one less universal tree to provide reason to multibox. More money for the game and less of players feeling like they have drag the team down in combat to better the team in gear.
  12. You haven't addressed the issue though. I'll say it again: We are talking about a limitation that doesn't actually work. Based on this and how easily one can get around the limitation, it begs the question as to what purpose the limitation is actually serving. You can make claims that it will reduce occurrences, but this does nothing to resolve the conceptual problem: that what you deem "buying power/pay to win territory" is easily doable and the game, in it's current form. I disagree with the rhetoric you use here, but based on your beliefs on the subject, it is already occurring. The things you say we aren't supposed to do are easily doable; you get to "do everything" and you get to negate the "need to specialize." Your claims to psychically know of its future rarity addresses nothing about the problems with the core concept- It is a limitation that doesn't actually work. It is like you are sailing a boat with a huge hole in it and saying "well at least there aren't that many holes" as if that erases the problem of the one freaking hole. The bottom line is that the developer's goals are untenable on this subject. It isn't going to be possible to stop people from "doing everything" or "negating specialization." It is a playstyle people are going to want enough to to "pay to win" so really we are just talking about how many loopholes we can force people through before they can enjoy the game in the way they want. This isn't the best formula for an MMO as it leaves people either jumping through the hoops and being annoyed at the process (having less fun than they should) or simply giving up on the process (and the game) due to the annoyance.
  13. I still have yet to hear a real response to the question on why would should have the limit on universal training, on why VIP shouldn't be able to bypass it, when it can already be bypassed easier and cheaper without VIP anyway. We are talking about a limitation that doesn't actually work. Based on this and how easily one can get around the limitation, it begs the question as to what purpose the limitation is actually serving. At this point, are those of you who are defending it doing so strictly for ideology's sake, because you like it conceptually, or can you actually see a purpose behind a rule that nobody has to actually follow?
  14. It is a pros and cons game. They will have the same time element of play restrictions someone training extra stuff on one account would. They would have to take an extra minute to swap accounts, but they would also have extra free inventory (protected from death of the other characters) and get to log in at a crafting station; strong pros in my mind. Gearing up would be a wash, you need backups for full inventory loss anyway if you play there and the alt can hold a set for you, if they even NEED gear for sitting around crafting. I'm just seeing waaaay more pros than cons here for multiboxing even if VIP offered everything that multiboxing did in terms of training. All decent ideas. Compromise is good. Hopefully more people talking about it will get the devs to look at this more closely. Even if multiboxing ultimately ends up still being the best option for getting the most out of your skill training (i'm sure nothing the devs can do will change that), changes aimed at closing the gap still helps.
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