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Chaoticgnome

Testers
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  1. Gold historically has gone through both inflationary and deflationary periods. Most modern economist will tell you that an inflation rate between 1-6% (depending on which economist you ask) is the ideal level for a healthy economy. They will all agree that deflation is a disaster. For references to deflationary periods, see the Great Depression and Japan's Lost Decade.
  2. There's a difference between changes in the price of a commodity and the 'price' of the currency you use to buy things. One of the purposes of a 'currency' is of a store of value. Going long on wood, expecting the price to go up is great but what happens if you expect the value of your currency itself to jump around? If a gold coin is going to buy you less each day, there will be a mad rush to drop your gold and get a-hold of a more stable commodity. If a gold coin is going to buy you more each day, there's an inducement to hoard the gold, put off purchases and reduce the overall commerce of the world. These would certainly be interesting events. I mean hey, gameplay doesn't get more emergent than when you have your own Free Silver movement. I cconcede the choice of craft or coin would mitigate this, deflation would induce more crafters to make coins which would act as a counterbalance and vice versa, but it's hard to know how effective a counterbalance this would be. And I'll concede this kind of economy would grant some interesting potential to wage economic warfare.
  3. Has anyone on this thread actually proposed infinite supply of fiat? Just felt like I had a useful post noting how limited supply defuses the incentives to just farm and then get replies of "an infinite supply will encourage farming and grinding." Gah! I'm okay with a craftable currency or even really gold ingots, which is my guess for what would become the SOJ of choice. I don't think lacking a fiat (and by this definition I simply mean it's not something that can be crafted but has a much more specific outflow) breaks the game, but will lead to more price volatility and the risk of shocks. Some people might argue having commodity crises would be part of the featured experience, but your mileage may vary. Input Or as some put it the grind Obviously commodities we understand. Wood you'll get from lumbermills, iron from mines etc. And these resources will be limited by the rate a mine can harvest and possibly absolute values. I seem to recall the FAQ mentioned something to the effect of "some mines will produce a lot more but it'll be lower quality resources" So the inputs of these resources are well understood A fiat could be inputted in the same way. Let's say the fiat is diamonds...then you capture a diamond mine. Maybe the fiat is the souls of mortals you are 'rescuing' from this dying world. Capture a village that hands over souls at a fixed rate. There is no reason a fiat could not be added seamlessly as another POI or tactical resource. You could also have fiat drop off of monsters, but at long as there is a tight control on the supply, there won't be enough out there to grind. Monster loot will get picked up as an incidental when capturing other objectives. Anyone trying to go out hoping to make lots of loot farming is more likely to get ganked for their trouble. Output Kitchen sink Okay so where does fiat go? Parcel maintenance seems a perfect choice. I don't think any one resource makes more or less sense for maintenance. If you have a parcel that's just a forest, what sense does it make to need wood or iron to 'maintain' it? Souls captured from campaigns makes some lore sense if you had a theory about how EK's don't get sucked towards the hunger. You could also have some fiat necessary in construction of some EK buildings. So only one or two sinks are reasonably available. Good! I argue having only one or two outputs is advantageous. What outputs do commodities have? Hundreds. Absolutely anything that requires that material. And unless resources degrade, players would have 100% control over the output rate. This creates a market distortion. If gold ingots or a currency crafted directly from gold is the unit of exchange, people will use gold less to craft because they want to hold onto it for liquidity. If this desire to hold becomes too great it might lead to self imposed inflation. Oh, but suddenly it's revealed the Krusher Guild has been kicking ass because they discovered Gilded Catapults with their higher AOE damage gives you a huge siege advantage that the meta hasn't caught up to yet. Now everyone needs as much gold as possible or they're getting blown apart in campaigns. Now that unit of exchange might be getting scarce, and you have deflation. With controlled input via limited supply in campaigns and controlled output via a handful of EK places to spend, you allow close control of the overall money supply. If you start to witness deflation or a recession in crafting, you can pump the economy up a bit by throwing more fiat into campaigns. If the reverse happens, you can pull the fiat away. TLDR: Fiat can have just as many inputs as any commodity and would not be infinitely available like in other games. Fiat could have closer control of outputs which would allow for more price stability, which crafters would probably appreciate.
  4. He means having different qualities of specific items is already one of the advertised feature and the suggestion is superfluous.
  5. Chinese gold farmers won't fare too well when they have to walk to the ambush-I mean embargo site every time they fill their pockets with gold pieces.
  6. I don't see a fiat currency being inextricably linked to killing mobs. It could be another resource that can be generated from mines like gold and iron. What would make a currency fiat vs commodity is simply that it doesn't serve as a source to craft anything. That said, I'm not opposed to a currency dropping off monsters necessarily. The trick is controlling supply. A fiat currency allows tighter control of both the inflow and outflow. I don't have deep experience with MMO's but what seemed to be the real source of farming was infinite supply. When I was playing EVE there was never a time we went "Well, this solar system is out of asteroids." I envision a fiat currency being regulated like any other item in the game and there would only be some finite amount of it in a campaign. Mobs probably don't respawn nearly as often, and the actual money rewards would be paltry by comparison. Let's say 100,000 fiats were to be given out in one campaign. Well, only 833 fiats would be up for grabs during any one day of a 4 month campaign. Or even less, maybe the rewards increase exponentially as winter approaches. You get 2 fiats for a spring wolf but you get 200 fiats for a winter zombie. Remember to embargo your gold, and oh if you just sat around waiting till winter to farm you don't get more than 5% of what you embargo'd cause you weren't active (as per the FAQ) I'm not saying this is necessarily the best way to do it, but it would be viable. With a limited supply of fiat out there to aquire, farming for fiat would be more like mining bitcoins: time consuming, expensive, and ultimately disappointing.
  7. Currency - Yes Game-wide Currency - Yes Campaign-specific currency - No My concern on campaign specific currency is there won't be enough time to reinvent the wheel every campaign. It seems more likely that, barring no official currency, EK crafters will eventually decide on a commodity currency and campaigners will bring that convention with them.
  8. There are a lot of theories of how the currency system was started. One explanation was currency started from tokens used for wages. Let's say an ancient Sumerian's wages for a day's work at the temple are two measures of wheat and a bottle of olive oil. He'd probably be paid on a daily basis, but it's pretty impractical to have bags of wheat and oil sitting on the temple steps to hand off. But you could give each worker a token which they could bring to a separate location where wheat and oil are stored and they could claim their wages there. I heard a theory of currency as a way to quantify debts of honor. If you accidentally killed someone's son, rather than war, a fee is agreed upon. If there is no currency, you have to have some kind of system where you quantify spoons and goats and swords. If you look up the Wikipedia entry on shekel, it also notes that the term referred to a weight, rather than a signage, so all the value gold coins had was by the material worth. In that way, gold and silver coins were commodity currencies more or less, and were chosen over time because they were fungible divisible and rare.
  9. In a simple economy like an MMO, a commodity based currency can work fine. Let's just say people agree on gold ingots. If you know how many gold ingots any commodity is worth, you can now barter much more fairly, similar to how in Fallout, when you barter, everything is priced in bottlecaps. Bottlecaps don't change hands, but because everything is priced in that way you know you're getting what is considered a fair deal. There is one argument for crafting gold coins: A gold ingot might be too valuable to be used for every possible transaction, so maybe crafting a hundred gold coins for each ingot grants a little more divisibility. Different people making competing currencies would be madness, but a universal recipe that even the simplest crafter could use where you take an ingot and make a hundred coins would be logical. There is a strong argument for an overarching fiat currency: If a commodity becomes the unit of exchange, price volatility will be much higher because players will partially control the money supply. If gold ingots become the common exchange, people may begin to hoard them, choosing to craft non-gold items and keeping the gold for liquidity, leading to inflation. Some gold-based item might be shown to provide campaign advantages and suddenly all your money is being turned into siege weapons and we have massive deflation. However let's say currency is measured in diamonds: an item that is found in campaigns that cannot be crafted into anything, but is the only accepted payment for parcel upkeep. Now you have only a single output source. This makes it significantly easier for the devs to regulate the money supply. In this form they can act like the Fed or any other sovereign bank. The same argument is being made here about controlling the supply of a commodity currency. As hamopeche says, if upkeep was denominated in copper bars, the devs could take away the punchbowl when copper gets too plentiful and engage in quantitative easing when copper gets too rare. It would certainly be possible to closely regulate commodities this way, but it isn't desirable. It would be a cludge that added a lot more work and a little more confusion for the sake of not using dirty dirty fiat.
  10. There has to be 'some' kind of in game currency so that you can pay taxes on your parcels, and possibly guild management dues etc. This could be VIP tokens, or whatever commodity the game demands, or crafters might turn gold bars into gold coins... Ironically, accepting the payment of taxes in a given currency is one of the examples given of what gives a fiat currency inherent value.
  11. Can I have a goatee in the mirror world?
  12. Variable item quality may make it difficult to implement such an API unless the quality is strictly tiered.
  13. Trusting players to name things? We never said we wanted the gameplay to be that emergent.
  14. Oculus Rift integration might make the difference, allowing you to look where you want to walk and bind one of the mouse buttons to move forward.
  15. "This should be in a later patch and not part of the core game" describes about 70% of the threads in the Suggestion Box forum.
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