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surBear

Testers
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  1. Like
    surBear got a reaction from baerin in RIP The Crowdfunder   
    Ok, this is from MY personal viewpoint.
     
    I am a really nice guy.  My grandkids love me.  My wife loves me.  Friends and neighbors tolerate me.  On forums I try to be witty, informative and bring a measure of wisdom to the discussion.
     
    I have not been very active posting on this forum(see post count) for a few reasons.  1)  our adorable first mod deleted some of my threads. (because his reading comprehension sucked)  2) the gonzo incident.  3) some of the Ace actions in re forum posting since then.
     
    If a line goes from point A to point B, it is clear where point C  is going to be.
     
    I hold high expectations for this game, so I dont want to do or post anything that may prevent me from playing. Hence, few posts and those posts are carefully worded to not land me in hot water.
     
    Not exactly the foundation for having a good time.  And I read and contribute on forums to have a good time.
     
    Do I want to attack people on forums? No.  Do I want to be toxic? No.  But the atmosphere around here is such that I fear being accused of those actions when that is not my intent.    
     
    So yes, some of us need to lighten up......but so should ACE.
  2. Like
    surBear got a reaction from meneek in RIP The Crowdfunder   
    Ok, this is from MY personal viewpoint.
     
    I am a really nice guy.  My grandkids love me.  My wife loves me.  Friends and neighbors tolerate me.  On forums I try to be witty, informative and bring a measure of wisdom to the discussion.
     
    I have not been very active posting on this forum(see post count) for a few reasons.  1)  our adorable first mod deleted some of my threads. (because his reading comprehension sucked)  2) the gonzo incident.  3) some of the Ace actions in re forum posting since then.
     
    If a line goes from point A to point B, it is clear where point C  is going to be.
     
    I hold high expectations for this game, so I dont want to do or post anything that may prevent me from playing. Hence, few posts and those posts are carefully worded to not land me in hot water.
     
    Not exactly the foundation for having a good time.  And I read and contribute on forums to have a good time.
     
    Do I want to attack people on forums? No.  Do I want to be toxic? No.  But the atmosphere around here is such that I fear being accused of those actions when that is not my intent.    
     
    So yes, some of us need to lighten up......but so should ACE.
  3. Like
    surBear reacted to KRIPTIK in RIP The Crowdfunder   
    I'm just not sure the non-sbers know how GOOD the game can be with our hard headed, stubborn, grieving butts helping to drive the vision. I hope some SB'ers will back me up but the combat in Shadowbane, the 1st time I really got in DEEP, was so exhilarating my heart was pounding out of my chest! And to some extent it was always that exciting not just the 1st time. To capture that "!" again would be pure magic. Anything less is a disappointment.
  4. Like
    surBear got a reaction from FenrisDDevil in RIP The Crowdfunder   
    Ok, this is from MY personal viewpoint.
     
    I am a really nice guy.  My grandkids love me.  My wife loves me.  Friends and neighbors tolerate me.  On forums I try to be witty, informative and bring a measure of wisdom to the discussion.
     
    I have not been very active posting on this forum(see post count) for a few reasons.  1)  our adorable first mod deleted some of my threads. (because his reading comprehension sucked)  2) the gonzo incident.  3) some of the Ace actions in re forum posting since then.
     
    If a line goes from point A to point B, it is clear where point C  is going to be.
     
    I hold high expectations for this game, so I dont want to do or post anything that may prevent me from playing. Hence, few posts and those posts are carefully worded to not land me in hot water.
     
    Not exactly the foundation for having a good time.  And I read and contribute on forums to have a good time.
     
    Do I want to attack people on forums? No.  Do I want to be toxic? No.  But the atmosphere around here is such that I fear being accused of those actions when that is not my intent.    
     
    So yes, some of us need to lighten up......but so should ACE.
  5. Like
    surBear reacted to pang in RIP The Crowdfunder   
    Tried, but people keep being wrong on the internet.
  6. Like
    surBear reacted to valor in RIP The Crowdfunder   
    I don't think there's any conspiracy, but I do believe that some of the actions taken (not completely agreeing with the OP) have had a negative affect on the community, which as a crowdfunded game could potentially dwarf it's growth in funding over the summer.
  7. Like
    surBear got a reaction from baerin in RIP The Crowdfunder   
    Posted 01 June 2015 - 05:45 PM
    ASB(after SB) I played many many games, searching and seeking the ambiance of what I once had.  I would hear or read of a game, hit their forums to see what the game was like, then never play it.   I changed my m.o. and just d/l random games and played.  Then I would hit the forums.....and lose interest in the game.
    Finally reached the point where I just played various games and never even knew if there were forums connected to them.
     
    SB and the UBI forums went hand in hand.  Yes, the forums were hardcore and abrasive.  But they were fun.  Almost as much fun as the game itself, certainly they were entertaining.
     
    I understand what ACE is trying to do with these forums.  I hold no grudge against them for trying to attain their goals here.  But their actions are removing what little 'entertainment' there was here. Hopefully, the game will not reflect the forum.  And hopefully, once the game is up, the flavor of the forums will change to reflect the game.  
     
     
    Tl;dr   This is supposed to be a bloody, ravenous, free for all, gank fest of a game.  The forums are tea and crumpets.
     
     
     
     
    copied from another thread.  Saw no reason to add anything more.
  8. Like
    surBear reacted to Agelmar in RIP The Crowdfunder   
    I have a unique perspective on this topic as a former SB Moderator.
     
    There are some distinct differences in these forums currently and how people "remember" the SB forums.  I was going to wayback the SB forums CoC to show how its actually much more specific and stricter.  We banned people all the time, we had multiple posters on IP bans across a number of accounts and IP ranges.  We had to deal with 3am Sunday porn blasts, DDoS attacks, and all sorts of things.  It was awful.
     
    This forum has some very basic admin tools that didn't exist in 2003-2009.  I wish we had it back then.  We can issue and automatically track warning points, see posting history of users,  track name changes, have users REPORT posts, things we couldn't do on the SB forums. These tools aren't making the moderators monsters (at least not since ... nevermind) they are holding posters accountable.  Personal attacks weren't allowed on the SB forums, people just got away with more craposts because of the poor tools, limited staff, and lack of accountability since forum accounts weren't linked to game accounts.
     
    ACE doesn't want these forums to be like that.  I don't want these forums to be like that.  YOU don't want these forums to be like that.
     
    What was great about the SB community was the level of detail in player created guides, the amazing discussions on theory crafting new builds and spec groups, how to optimize stats for every class/disc, and the politics.  The community at its heart was very close and helpful.  We also absolutely loved the political "game" on the forums.  Nations rose and fell based off of words we could type and the opinions we could foster of how people played the game.  You could attack their defensive strategies, their WoO choices to avoid fights, their love for pixels over PvP.
     
    None of these things currently exist on the CF forums and it isn't because of a "moderation strategy" from ACE.  Its because we don't have a game to play.  We don't have alliances to argue, bane strategies to make fun of, WoOs to complain about.  We don't have anything to politic.  We only have people and ideas to "attack" and most posters aren't savvy enough to focus on the ideas and get in trouble for attacking people.
     
    I volunteered to be a mod to help recreate the depth of the SB political forums.  This is what I want because it will be extremely important for the success of the game.  Mod bias 100% exists, but what people aren't considering is it exists in your favor.  I don't want people to be banned, I don't want to lock or close threads, I don't want to give warning points.  I don't want "Professional" paid moderators for a game like this because they won't understand context or intent and don't understand the community.  The unfortunate thing is the constant *rabble rabble* against the mods has pushed ACE to go in the direction of paid moderators when the game launches.
     
    You are shooting yourselves in the foot.  YOU are actively making the forum situation worse.  YOU are going to force ACE into making decisions that are pushing the direction away from the goal we want: an engaged and political community in a bad ass PvP game.  We warned, closed threads, deleted posts, and IP banned people on the SB forums much more frequently then these forums.  The difference there is you could create a new account and be posting again in minutes.  These forums hold your accountable.  This isn't a negative thing.
     
    The opinion that ACE wants to keep these forums clean for $$$ is laughable. They want to keep them useful.  Todd and Gordon don't log in the Suggestion Box thinking "oh poorly made socks, what kind of game are we making... oh look unicorn mounts! BINGO!"  They and their team are using it as a sounding board to get feedback on their decisions.  We have the opportunity to help guide and shape their decisions, but the design and direction of the game has been very clearly communicated.
     
    tl;dr
     
    Lighten up Francis.
  9. Like
    surBear got a reaction from mal in RIP The Crowdfunder   
    Posted 01 June 2015 - 05:45 PM
    ASB(after SB) I played many many games, searching and seeking the ambiance of what I once had.  I would hear or read of a game, hit their forums to see what the game was like, then never play it.   I changed my m.o. and just d/l random games and played.  Then I would hit the forums.....and lose interest in the game.
    Finally reached the point where I just played various games and never even knew if there were forums connected to them.
     
    SB and the UBI forums went hand in hand.  Yes, the forums were hardcore and abrasive.  But they were fun.  Almost as much fun as the game itself, certainly they were entertaining.
     
    I understand what ACE is trying to do with these forums.  I hold no grudge against them for trying to attain their goals here.  But their actions are removing what little 'entertainment' there was here. Hopefully, the game will not reflect the forum.  And hopefully, once the game is up, the flavor of the forums will change to reflect the game.  
     
     
    Tl;dr   This is supposed to be a bloody, ravenous, free for all, gank fest of a game.  The forums are tea and crumpets.
     
     
     
     
    copied from another thread.  Saw no reason to add anything more.
  10. Like
    surBear got a reaction from BurgundytheRed in Reply to MMORPG.com: The Active Passive Training Bottleneck   
    People are used to mmo's that require you to spend months or years leveling, questing, getting the best armor and weapons.  Just so that they will EVENTUALLY get to actually play the game.
     
    As I understand it, CF will let you hit the ground running.  You log in, pick up a stick or find a rusted bent sword and start wacking people on the head.  People that join CF a year after it starts will still be able to be competitive.  Now! not after months of catching up.  
     
    This is not what most people are used to.  Some people dont like things they are not used to.  Here in Texas, we have ranches that are counted in sections instead of acres.  Miles and miles of open range.  Yet you will find trails that are about a foot wide and 7 or 8 inches deep.  Cow trails.  Cows go from one place to another in single file, following each other.  Cows dont like change either.
     
    So let ACE blaze a new trail. Eventually the cows will discover it.  Then the mmorpg.com crowd will crow about how they backed it all along.
  11. Like
    surBear got a reaction from huckleburied in Reply to MMORPG.com: The Active Passive Training Bottleneck   
    People are used to mmo's that require you to spend months or years leveling, questing, getting the best armor and weapons.  Just so that they will EVENTUALLY get to actually play the game.
     
    As I understand it, CF will let you hit the ground running.  You log in, pick up a stick or find a rusted bent sword and start wacking people on the head.  People that join CF a year after it starts will still be able to be competitive.  Now! not after months of catching up.  
     
    This is not what most people are used to.  Some people dont like things they are not used to.  Here in Texas, we have ranches that are counted in sections instead of acres.  Miles and miles of open range.  Yet you will find trails that are about a foot wide and 7 or 8 inches deep.  Cow trails.  Cows go from one place to another in single file, following each other.  Cows dont like change either.
     
    So let ACE blaze a new trail. Eventually the cows will discover it.  Then the mmorpg.com crowd will crow about how they backed it all along.
  12. Like
    surBear got a reaction from primal in RIP The Crowdfunder   
    Posted 01 June 2015 - 05:45 PM
    ASB(after SB) I played many many games, searching and seeking the ambiance of what I once had.  I would hear or read of a game, hit their forums to see what the game was like, then never play it.   I changed my m.o. and just d/l random games and played.  Then I would hit the forums.....and lose interest in the game.
    Finally reached the point where I just played various games and never even knew if there were forums connected to them.
     
    SB and the UBI forums went hand in hand.  Yes, the forums were hardcore and abrasive.  But they were fun.  Almost as much fun as the game itself, certainly they were entertaining.
     
    I understand what ACE is trying to do with these forums.  I hold no grudge against them for trying to attain their goals here.  But their actions are removing what little 'entertainment' there was here. Hopefully, the game will not reflect the forum.  And hopefully, once the game is up, the flavor of the forums will change to reflect the game.  
     
     
    Tl;dr   This is supposed to be a bloody, ravenous, free for all, gank fest of a game.  The forums are tea and crumpets.
     
     
     
     
    copied from another thread.  Saw no reason to add anything more.
  13. Like
    surBear reacted to Adall in RIP The Crowdfunder   
    I guess my big problem is that the forums reflect the type of community we will have in game.
     
    It really doesn't go both ways. If the community on the forums is expected to behave and be all happy trails, rainbows, unicorns and Candyland, then the game will share the same expectation. If this is the way for people to read about the game, yet you want it to be a less creepy version of Disneyland, and then the game turns out to be this slag festival... well now you are just creating a misleading environment. If the forums are a little darker and it reflects the realities of the game... then this is a good thing because they match.
     
    Right now we have this really weird, "create enemies and deep Game of Thrones politics," but don't "create enemies and deep Game of Thrones politics."
     
    The messages are directly conflicting.
     
    So which is it?
     
    1. Have a fluffy forum and fluffy in game "rivalries."
     
    "Gosh Dean, it looks like Michael Stanton from the Happytown Kittens is going to really play well today on the field"
     
    "Well Sally Sue, I will do whatever it takes to bring my team to victory. The Happytown Kittens are the main rival of the Flufflyville Puppies and we are both great teams competing for the state trophy. May the best team win though! Good luck, have fun!"
     
    2. Have a conflicting story in either direction.
     
    "Hey girl, I saw your happy post on the forums today... those strict rules are crazy there, you piece of poorly made socks cocksucker. Die in a fire with your children!"
     
    "Hey girl, you were a hooligan on the forums today and I posted some mean stuff back, but the in game rules are pretty strict... so... hugs as I tear down your castle you worked hard on?"
     
    3. Have a darker environment that allows a little freedom.
     
    "FoE is total trash, those eagles aren't even bald."
     
    "Yeah? We are going to slaughter you Torched Observers so hard... not like you aren't already baddies anyway."
     
    *proceed to game to lay down the law and rival some more*
  14. Like
    surBear reacted to headlight in RIP The Crowdfunder   
    I think they betrayed the Wiz 101 fans, simply because they're Wiz 101 players (RIP Blaze Duskdreamer). As soon as you made any kind of stance on looting or PvP, they picked up their deck and dived back into the spiral.
     
    I DO think these forums have been prettyied up for the investors, who may or may not have voiced an opinion about the "toxicity" of the forums. And regardless of how much money you make, I know a cute fluffy kitten when i smell one.
     
    Do I believe it's the death of crowdfunding? No I don't. Do I agree with going backer only? No I don't. People in the MMO world spend a lot of time sitting on the fence. They've put their money where their mouth is before and they got burned. Vaporware became even more prominent when kickstarter gained popularity. Between crowdfunding and Early Access, the MMO world is full of traps. So the majority of MMO players sit and wait.
     
    While they're sitting on the fences, they hear of this "hardcore PvP game" whose forums give out warning points for petty stuff. Now, they may be like Sheen/VN and have broken in knee pads, so they're used to having their ears pulled. But I know when the forums went backer only, there were quite a few forums that went "told ya so", "glad I dodged that bullet", etc.
     
    More like a flock of smeagles running around trying to protect "my precious". You can sit there and say "o-m-g gais, the forums isn't the game". What's also not a game is hiding behind obscure pieces of the CoC to target dissenting opinions. Oh right, if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all? It's promoting a culture of yes men, and yes men = WoW clones.
  15. Like
    surBear reacted to primal in RIP The Crowdfunder   
    It’s been a few months since Crowfall’s kickstarter has ended, and since we’ve had a recent post from ACE on this subject, I would like to discuss ACE’s shift from crowdfunding to Investment-seeking. Don your tinfoil hats.

    The state of the community has changed a lot since the first few weeks we /fondly/ remember. It’s been gradual and it started long before turning it backer-only, or snuffing out the toxicity. Some people like the changes, some don’t. The core of what I want to get out of this discussion is an answer to this question; Have the changes to the forum been done to foster a thriving community, or was it done to become more appealing to major investors?

    These forums had an insanely active community in the beginning for being the type of game CF is. I guess it could be considered the wild-west, but out of all that conflict and people debating and flaming sparked conversation. Forum ‘fights’ were not just about each other’s guilds or whatever, but about what was thought about the game design and theory crafting. It was thriving, especially for being piecemealed information up to the KS reveal and targeting the communities JTodd and GW knew they could get on board…from UO,SB, and (yes, even w101). Niche communities they know have been salivating over a homage to old HC PVP games. Now there are maybe 100 [active?] posters out of 15k+ backers. That’s no bueno. I’ve seen crowdfunded games with much worse premises captivate a greater community. Crowdfunding require a crowd, and a lot of people look at activity before buying into a game. I could see the most appealing game pitch in the world, but if I look at the community and see low activity, that raises red flags.

    An environment that facilitates political discussions is a necessity for a PVP game, but it’s a minor detail. I think what we have is a lack of understanding of the core community’s roots. It’s sad, because there is so much potential in this game and crowd. The hype train was going at light-speed and the KS campaign far exceeded what many of us were expecting, they couldn’t even keep up with stretch goals at one point. Around two months ago the community shifted gears, a new CM was hired, mods re-evaluated, and the vision for what these forums should be changed. Was this just potential cleanup to make it look better from an outside perspective? Was this hypetrain tossed for a million dollars in angel investors? A million dollars, compared to the community potential. I’m not a business man, and I’m not going to sit here and armchair CEO, but it seemed to me like they had funding to complete everything they told us they could, and now they’re going after investors to hire more developers to get the product in our hands faster. So get it in our hands faster to build hype, but stifle the community that runs on the hype it builds. ACE had this community riled up, and if that community could have been left to continue to build, cultivate, and bring in new blood by word of mouth, I think the potential for the players buying in would have smashed that million or so out of the park.

    Making these forums less appealing to the core of your community, the hardcore crowd and the w101-esque crowd, by alienating them both by telling one “This isn’t the lawless forums you want it to be anymore” while also telling the other “This game is not for you, it won’t appeal to everyone and we’re okay with that!” to tame the forums down has led to where it is today. This would be like Star Citizen snuffing out their Wing Commander fans. The formula was obviously working to be in the top-20 most crowdfunded game, so why the change? This activity might be normal for other games in prealpha, but not in any successful crowdfunded game community I’ve been in. This is why I think that the crowdfunding mentality is gone here, and has moved onto a different mindset. It feels like it’s been planned all along. They got what they needed from hype training the old communities, and now it’s off to a different strategy.

    I remember debating this earlier, and someone said that one of the reasons being because major guild leaders aren’t on the forums. My answer to that is, how can I be a GL and tell my guild to jump in and get into the information and involve themselves in the community, when at the same time I have to explain they have to pay GW a door fee just to participate and see if they like the game or not. Will this game change because of the shift in community? Maybe it will, maybe it won’t. But I think that if you realize your community now consists of mostly softcores, because the hardcores consider the forums a turn off, you then cater to the only customers you have left.



    With that wall-of-text being said, I’m going to end this by quoting something I posted a few months ago;
  16. Like
    surBear got a reaction from doc gonzo in RIP Doc Gonzo   
    You did, I assume, notice the quotation marks surrounding 'belligerent'?
     
    I was on the thread in question while the 'debate' was ongoing and I saw nothing belligerent in any of Doc's posts.  After all this mess happened, I went back and read it again, Doc was still calm, cool and collected.  
  17. Like
    surBear got a reaction from MattVid in Reply to MMORPG.com: The Active Passive Training Bottleneck   
    People are used to mmo's that require you to spend months or years leveling, questing, getting the best armor and weapons.  Just so that they will EVENTUALLY get to actually play the game.
     
    As I understand it, CF will let you hit the ground running.  You log in, pick up a stick or find a rusted bent sword and start wacking people on the head.  People that join CF a year after it starts will still be able to be competitive.  Now! not after months of catching up.  
     
    This is not what most people are used to.  Some people dont like things they are not used to.  Here in Texas, we have ranches that are counted in sections instead of acres.  Miles and miles of open range.  Yet you will find trails that are about a foot wide and 7 or 8 inches deep.  Cow trails.  Cows go from one place to another in single file, following each other.  Cows dont like change either.
     
    So let ACE blaze a new trail. Eventually the cows will discover it.  Then the mmorpg.com crowd will crow about how they backed it all along.
  18. Like
    surBear got a reaction from valor in Reply to MMORPG.com: The Active Passive Training Bottleneck   
    People are used to mmo's that require you to spend months or years leveling, questing, getting the best armor and weapons.  Just so that they will EVENTUALLY get to actually play the game.
     
    As I understand it, CF will let you hit the ground running.  You log in, pick up a stick or find a rusted bent sword and start wacking people on the head.  People that join CF a year after it starts will still be able to be competitive.  Now! not after months of catching up.  
     
    This is not what most people are used to.  Some people dont like things they are not used to.  Here in Texas, we have ranches that are counted in sections instead of acres.  Miles and miles of open range.  Yet you will find trails that are about a foot wide and 7 or 8 inches deep.  Cow trails.  Cows go from one place to another in single file, following each other.  Cows dont like change either.
     
    So let ACE blaze a new trail. Eventually the cows will discover it.  Then the mmorpg.com crowd will crow about how they backed it all along.
  19. Like
    surBear got a reaction from doc gonzo in RIP Doc Gonzo   
    Now there is the correct attitude.
  20. Like
    surBear got a reaction from doc gonzo in RIP Doc Gonzo   
    The epitome of cool.
  21. Like
    surBear got a reaction from doc gonzo in RIP Doc Gonzo   
    You know him better than that......
     
     
    Excelsior!
  22. Like
    surBear got a reaction from scribbles in Greetings from BenWP   
    ASB(after SB) I played many many games, searching and seeking the ambiance of what I once had.  I would hear or read of a game, hit their forums to see what the game was like, then never play it.   I changed my m.o. and just d/l random games and played.  Then I would hit the forums.....and lose interest in the game.
    Finally reached the point where I just played various games and never even knew if there were forums connected to them.
     
    SB and the UBI forums went hand in hand.  Yes, the forums were hardcore and abrasive.  But they were fun.  Almost as much fun as the game itself, certainly they were entertaining.
     
    I understand what ACE is trying to do with these forums.  I hold no grudge against them for trying to attain their goals here.  But their actions are removing what little 'entertainment' there was here. Hopefully, the game will not reflect the forum.  And hopefully, once the game is up, the flavor of the forums will change to reflect the game.  
     
     
    Tl;dr   This is supposed to be a bloody, ravenous, free for all, gank fest of a game.  The forums are tea and crumpets.
  23. Like
    surBear got a reaction from benwp in Greetings from BenWP   
    ASB(after SB) I played many many games, searching and seeking the ambiance of what I once had.  I would hear or read of a game, hit their forums to see what the game was like, then never play it.   I changed my m.o. and just d/l random games and played.  Then I would hit the forums.....and lose interest in the game.
    Finally reached the point where I just played various games and never even knew if there were forums connected to them.
     
    SB and the UBI forums went hand in hand.  Yes, the forums were hardcore and abrasive.  But they were fun.  Almost as much fun as the game itself, certainly they were entertaining.
     
    I understand what ACE is trying to do with these forums.  I hold no grudge against them for trying to attain their goals here.  But their actions are removing what little 'entertainment' there was here. Hopefully, the game will not reflect the forum.  And hopefully, once the game is up, the flavor of the forums will change to reflect the game.  
     
     
    Tl;dr   This is supposed to be a bloody, ravenous, free for all, gank fest of a game.  The forums are tea and crumpets.
  24. Like
    surBear got a reaction from primal in Greetings from BenWP   
    ASB(after SB) I played many many games, searching and seeking the ambiance of what I once had.  I would hear or read of a game, hit their forums to see what the game was like, then never play it.   I changed my m.o. and just d/l random games and played.  Then I would hit the forums.....and lose interest in the game.
    Finally reached the point where I just played various games and never even knew if there were forums connected to them.
     
    SB and the UBI forums went hand in hand.  Yes, the forums were hardcore and abrasive.  But they were fun.  Almost as much fun as the game itself, certainly they were entertaining.
     
    I understand what ACE is trying to do with these forums.  I hold no grudge against them for trying to attain their goals here.  But their actions are removing what little 'entertainment' there was here. Hopefully, the game will not reflect the forum.  And hopefully, once the game is up, the flavor of the forums will change to reflect the game.  
     
     
    Tl;dr   This is supposed to be a bloody, ravenous, free for all, gank fest of a game.  The forums are tea and crumpets.
  25. Like
    surBear got a reaction from Warprose in Hey - the quest thing has shown up again! Will there be quests?   
    Only those capable.   For an example of those not.....see the suggestion forum.
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