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Cocteau

Cormorant
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  1. Let me make this clear, this concept and the complexity in SWG and/or the alloy system we have glimpsed for Crowfall are NOT mutually exclusive. I would still love to see a line of thought for which material you use for each weapon, and those materials would influence your forge variables in a very logical way. The problem I have with SWG is that, as complex as it is, it's still not immersive or skill-based. With time, all those variables are crunched and someone makes a guide to how to make the faster or stronger blade, combined with the fact that all in all, you are just going through menus and clicking buttons and hoping for RNG. As for my concept being a 'just master it', when you put in perspective every material and combination of materials you can use, you'll need to experiment quite a bit, and you won't always have the resources you need. Play the game with Tips On, Oridi, and see how many highQ titanium you can make (Not even telling you to make them perfect). The idea behind this concept is NOT to be a master and get perfect always, but to stop making low quality once you master.
  2. I guess I'll be repeating much of what was said in the other thread here... Andius compiled all those 'similar' minigames in a thread, not long ago, but neither of them are suitable for crafting inside a MMO. - Dark Messiah: There is no skill-based interaction. It just mimics a blacksmith, but making a good sword or not isn't part of the minigame - Fable 2: As with everything else in Fable (besides 1), it sucks. That's just a timesink. There's no difficulty in that bar going up and down, no way to mass produce, not really skill-based, since it's so easy to hit the green mark... - LoZ OoT: I guess if you ever want to make fishing, that system is good. So are the systems for some other fishing-only games out there. But I'm not even sure if having minigames for gathering professions is a good idea. We're talking crafting here. What my minigame is supposed to show, is that interacting with a new material or trying to make a new recipe is a challenge. And getting perfect ratings after you 'master' a weapon is still a hard thing to pull off. This was done because Crowfall says they want to make crafters recognized, and there is no other way than through skill. Any other way is just a matter of time before the other crafters reach the point that you've reached. It is not a timesink because of the way you can use thralls. Did you even read the thread? As for making it similar to PvP, I guess a system like EQ isn't entirely bad. I dislike it and prefer something that isn't combat related, since if I want to have combat, I'll equip my sword instead of making it. But it STILL beats click-crafting. By a mile.
  3. Following the discussion here: http://community.crowfall.com/index.php?/topic/4795-mmo-crafting-the-bane-of-my-existence/ I decided to make a sample minigame for blacksmith crafting. Not only to test it out, but I'm also learning how to use Unity, and that seemed like a good starting project. The game consists in a 3-part crafting, from heating to hammering. Do read the instructions in-game. All art, models and animations were free assets taken from Unity's page. Do not consider the graphics when considering the game under the implications of the thread linked above. Here is the game. I suggest you try with the Tips Off first: http://www.kongregate.com/games/cocteau1/blacksmith I uploaded it to kongregate because a site like filedropper would possibly raise some eyebrows. But if you want the .exe file, PM me your e-mail. TL;DR of the 'MMO Crafting, the bane of my existence' thread: - Clicking craft is not engaging, nor skill-demanding - Crowfall wants crafters to be recognized. But doing that without a mini-game will only be a short-term solution, as recipe knowledge will eventually reach most of the land - Clicking craft isn't immersive, you don't imagine yourself actually forging something, nor are you proud of a RNG-based high quality weapon, you're maybe happy that you got lucky, that's it That's the short version, I'm not gonna re-read all 8 pages of that thread, feel free bring up those points again in this thread Add-ons The game above is a sample, a test to see how a minigame would work, but in the context of a larger game such as Crowfall, the following things could be added: - Crafting skill Other than player skill, a player could select 'Blacksmithing' as a skill and raise it as he works on blades, that could allow him to maybe pinpoint a smaller range for the hammer hits, or get a hint whenever the fire was exceedingly hot, or get more accurate tips in the end. - Material quality Material quality could directly influence the final quality. By changing the balance levels of each category, you could make it easier to make a high quality weapon out of a high quality material. And really hard to pull it off from a low quality material - RNG Don't freak out!! RNG could be added as different values for the fire decay during the 2nd phase or even a different speed for the loading power of the hammering. This would make the game harder, but also make for less bot-like crafters. RNG should not, in ANY case be the reason why your weapon was high or low quality FAQ - This is a grind. I can't see myself crafting 50 swords every day, it's WAY too time-consuming. Regarding Crowfall, they already covered this problem. You can make a single sword, and your thrall would make a number of copies. Say you make one sword, and the thrall can copy it 9 more times. Now you're doing the process 5 times. Not too much of a grind now, is it? - Fine. But now it's all luck, one guy lucks out a perfect sword, he's getting 10 of them. It's still skill. Someone will luck it out eventually, sure. But if that guys sucks, he's dishing out 40 low quality swords as well. One day that you lose the market to a lucky roll isn't going to disgrace your crafting experience. - So... Mass production? I get a bunch of resources and turn it all into weapons in 3 minutes? See the unused grindstone in the left side? After finishing a blade, it would go to an automatic grinding period. That is the most time real blacksmithing takes place, and it's boring as hell. So why not, after the blade is done, it goes into a queue, and has a set production time, established depending on game balance? So you're making 10 swords, but each takes 10 minutes to complete. But you only took 20 seconds to make all of them. That's the way to go here. - That game isn't realistic at all. You just added a forge and an anvil... Yeah, I'm aware. But crafting has to be simple. I can't bring in the levels of complexity that real blacksmiths have. I'd love to to add heat treatment and the proper hammering technique, but I don't think most people would understand tempering as they understand that the fire needs to be that intense. The purpose isn't to make a game for engineers, you know? - I can't craft the Masamune, it's god damn impossible... Yeah, it's meant to be like that. Crafting a legendary weapon should be extremely hard. And if you pull it off, it's probably going to be a high quality. If you get a PERFECT Masamune, post a screenshot here, I'll be shocked if you pull it off.
  4. Unless interrogation does more than just giving the killer free info, I don't see it being a plausible idea. Maybe the victim (when interrogated) can choose to give information to reduce his drop rate or something like that... Even so, I'm kinda iffy on the idea Having scouts need to come back to a HQ of sorts to gather their information, however, is a great idea. Would prevent people from charging into enemy territory naked and discovering every detail of their settlement. Also allows for strategies regarding taking down scouts and information warfare.
  5. Attrition war and resource focus add so much to a battle... As long as it's well balanced, this is an awesome feature
  6. Yea, I agree with many of your points as well. This topic is probably one of the toughest problems that the devs are facing. Balancing a combat system must be a pain... We're also talking out of our limited knowledge here. We have no idea how the fighting is going to be, whether focused on picking people alone, or dozens v dozens or small skirmishes. Finding a combat system that makes every single one of those situations fun and engaging is (or at least looks) pretty damn hard.
  7. Well, I think as far as a 4 second stun with other limitations, such as long cooldowns or heavy mana usage, or others among the long list I posted can be viable. Long cooldowns are one form of limiting CCs, not the only ones. The only point I'm making is that CC, hard or soft, only gives more options in a battlefield. And if it can be balanced properly, it improves the gameplay. And yeah, I know. At first I wrote useless on the 0.1 second stun, then I thought about the interrupting side of it and changed to bad skill. I mean... It can be a good skill, even OP if you give it 0 CD and 0 mana. That's to show that any particular feature isn't good or bad by itself, but by the characteristics surrounding it.
  8. Quit blowing things out of proportion Stunning for 10 seconds is OP, even on a long cooldown, sure it is Stunning for 0.1 seconds is a bad skill, even if it's spammable... I said in my post about balance. That's the key thing to allow slows, stuns, roots, silences and everything else. If they can balance the game, you can have everything. There's too much trauma among the players here regarding bad combat systems, you gotta think positively
  9. Is this what you refer to? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ID6qkB8BwM Because that is not the point here... That system just puts a little complexity into the "click craft" method While what's being said is to make an active skill-based game, complex or not. We can have or have not the introduction of different tools to make every item to both systems, but that might be unecessary and it all comes down to budget. What's being discussed is the method. Sycon, the argument of time consumption is valid, yet solvable. It all comes down to balancing the game, which I don't really want to discuss, because really, that is going to be the Devs call, one way or another. Let me explain: - Both methods take a set amount of time for each item, so this is adjustable. - You can allow mass production on both systems as well, this is also adjustable. - Learning how to craft is different in both systems. This is not really adjustable. So the only time consumption issue is regarding learning how to craft. Because inside the campaigns, you can regulate every single crafting variable to balance it into defining: - How long should a crafter have to actively craft - How long should it takes an item to be ready And yes they are different topics, maybe you need to cool down your iron sword before its ready, and that takes 2 minutes that don't requires the crafter, along with many other ways to regulate this the perfect way so it's balanced. As for learning how to craft, that's the interesting part. It will be fun to train your skills, and I assume mostly of that will be done in the EKs, as resources are more dispensable there. So a crafter can still fight or gather during campaigns. He also may be needed to craft non-stop during a war, because they would need a good amount of weapons due to the decay, but that would probably be necessary in both systems, it is just better to not be the guy who's watching a progress bar go down as the war rages on...
  10. Don't twist my words... I don't want Campaigns where everyone wins, I want campaigns where we have a clear winner and that the losers aren't bound to suffer for months because of it...
  11. I don't think I explained my point clearly, by the replies I'm seeing. Either that or I'm missing something... In the first situation, it is when one person dominates beyond repair. It's referring to the same situation in which the devs felt the need to introduce the reset mechanism and dying worlds. Not when someone is big, but we can still make alliances or use attrition warfare to take them down. In the second situation, I think you guys understood it. I just hope it doesn't come down to a clock management strategy... I wanna win my wars, not get a small lead when the time expires...
  12. You don't need to join every Campaign with your guild... Maybe you can set up with the other guilds that you'll start a new campaign in 2 months (estimate to when their Shadow Campaign ends), and meanwhile, you join some GR or Infected campaigns that are nearing the victory conditions and/or time limit individually
  13. I didn't mean to make crafters to be pure either. One system doesn't prevent any other function of the game, as in, you should be able to enjoy everything the game has to offer, including a fun, interactive and compelling crafting. All the minor detail that go into it are solvable, one way or another, here: I believe someone said the solution to this already in this topic: You make every forge is different. You can't wiki it because all the timings and amount of hammer strikes are player-customized. Now I'm not even defending the system that I posted up there as the best thing in the world. I think it's a good viable system, but the concept of the engaging activity over recipe menus is the point of the topic, how it is done is up to the devs, and quite frankly, a group of developers brainstorming will probably be a better creative session than me spitballing in a forum thread, so who knows what they can come up with...
  14. I'm pretty sure crops need sun to grow, but I love the idea of farming. Growing a quick turnip for a hungry army, and planning ahead on spring to reap in the fall. It's really interesting. You pretty much create your own POI that you need to defend throughout the seasons.
  15. I surely will. The point of my thread wasn't to complain about a possible Uncle Bob, it was focused on the effectiveness of a rigid time limit for the Campaigns. And I hope you're right, and we'll just have fun no matter what happens. Regarding the Law of unIntended Consequences... Sounds really fun, but I have no idea what you're talking about...
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