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Verot

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  1. Like
    Verot got a reaction from Curufinwe in UPDATED: ACE Q&A for September - Official discussion thread   
    I think how Blair explained it is the best way to keep it. If you force VIP to train in 2 different paths then you eliminate the possibility of specialist characters and instead force everyone to be hybrids. It is possible to address the non-vip vs vip power curve with the newly announced skill tome mechanic.
    First let me say that I think total account skill training should not be able to exceed total training available to a self trained VIP account since time of launch.
    With the assumption above being true, non-vip players (day 1 players) could purchase skill tomes to allow training of both weapons and armor in the combat tree to even out any disparity. The ability to be a hybrid or a specialist will come down to player choice and provide a wide range of options without making players their own island. Let's be honest here, VIP should be a carrot and an enticing one at that, we need to fund continual development of the game. As long as the skill tome is an option for parity between VIP and non-vip as well as a mechanic for catching up players who start later then you can't call it P2W. If players can simply buy more skill points with no restriction on total account training then it most assuredly is P2W.
  2. Like
    Verot got a reaction from JamesGoblin in Choices No Longer Have Consequences   
    TL;DR - Allowing players to double dip a profession solves the dependency issue and is no more P2W than forcing players to pick 2 of the 3 professions. It solves the funding problem for ACE by providing players a limited/expiring incentive which keeps the continual development/maintenance costs covered.
    What we all need to realize is that the cat is out of the bag as soon as you allow VIP to train 2 professions and non-vip to only train one. However, players seem to be split on what offends them the most about the 2/2/2 vs 1/1/1 VIP benefits now.
    1. P2W purists don't want any type of multiple profession trains, because it advantages VIP over non-vip.
    2. Dependency purists don't want VIP to be good at any two things, they must pick one profession and be dependent on others to support them in the other 2 professions.
    3. Players are OK with 2/2/2 as long as you can't double dip a single profession. i.e Combat  training in both Armor and Weapons at the same time because it provides a "vertical" power progression.
    There are players who share a mix of arguments 1-3 but I'll address each argument separately. 
    I'll do my best to recap why IMO I think ACE did a great job with the new VIP model AND should allow double dipping in a single profession as long as its not in the same tree. When I say not in the same tree I'm not talking about training the Great Axe Tree and the Pole Mace tree at the same time, I mean being able to train Great Axe and Heavy Armor at the same time. The restriction would be that you can't train 2 nodes in Great Axe at the same time.
    #1
    The group of players from argument #1 IMO have the best ground to stand on. While I don't personally share their opinion on the matter, there is nothing wrong with having a principled stand on P2W. Allowing VIP to train 2 profession be it with or without double dipping a single profession provides a power advantage to the VIP player over the non-vip player. I won't argue that it does not, because I believe under the new model VIP represents a power advantage. With that being said, this form of P2W is very benign as it is capped at $15 per month, provides for continual funding of the game, and is still available to those players who have the time but not the money to trade in game resources for VIP which will put them on equal footing. The only players truly left out are those who have neither the time nor the money to earn/buy VIP, and to be honest these players were almost always going to be disadvantaged in the game. There is nothing fundamentally wrong with argument #1 its just a matter of opinion.
    #2
    The group of players from argument #2 are on less steady ground compared to argument #1. This group of players want a strict separation of labor/specialty in the game because of the bonds they see it will form between players. If you allow players to specialize in 2 professions, they feel that it swings the pendulum to players being an island unto themselves. Now the player who was going to be a crafter specialist does not feel he offers the same niche service that he did before because with 2 professions he has to compete with all the original harvesters that now decide to go harvest/craft who previously would not have been able to convert the raw materials efficiently into high quality gear. This is where double dipping a single profession would be a good solution. @jtoddcoleman explained his thoughts, saying that the pendulum was too far in the direction of forcing that dependence on other players. I agree with jtc, but at this point the argument is just a matter of opinion. The solution to this problem is to allow double dipping. From a P2W perspective if you were OK with 2/2/2 but only had a problem with the dependency issues, then allowing double dipping should not be a concern as both represent a power advantage for the VIP player. Double dipping solves the specialist argument because now true crafters can train 2 lines of specialty, which perhaps eliminates some very niche markets, i.e. I'm the only dagger specialist, it solves the logistics issues for a lot of players. Now you are the dagger/sword specialist or dagger/leather specialist. Double dipping allows far more specialized training than forcing people to pick 2 different professions. Some will double dip, some will be hybrids, double dipping provides way more options.
    #3
    The group of players from argument #3 are basically drowning. While I can't specify the power curve of each profession, the moment you allow VIP to train 2 professions you give them a force multiplier that is not available to non-vip. It does not matter if you can't double dip, being able to train combat/harvesting will still swing the power curve in favor of VIP over non-vip. At this point the argument is both hypocritical and illogical as they are OK with P2W under one scenario but not the other. The 2nd issue that pops up when you force the splitting of professions is that you limit the VIP incentive for those players who only ever wanted to be specialists to begin with. A combat player who had no desire to break rocks or craft gear does not see any benefit in the VIP incentive for 2 professions and now the only benefit is the Time Bank. 
  3. Like
    Verot got a reaction from Busama in UPDATED: ACE Q&A for September - Official discussion thread   
    My point is that training 2x race but not general is still P2W. You made it appear that your primary concern was P2W and if that is the case, I perhaps assumed wrongly, that you would be against ALL P2W. The only way it would not be P2W is if once you finish racial basic you can only train in 2 separate lines as long as one of those lines is not a child of the other. i.e I can train Man and Sylvan but not Man and Racial Basics. I can train Human and Sylvan but not Human and Man. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think this is the case, if it is then you are correct 1/2/2 or 1/1/2 would not be P2W and there is nothing wrong with your logic.
  4. Like
    Verot got a reaction from Busama in UPDATED: ACE Q&A for September - Official discussion thread   
    My point is not to offend you, but merely to point out that your logic is flawed, if you can't handle that then I'm sorry. What I'm saying has nothing to do with feelings, because at the end of the day my feelings on the topic wont change the truth of the matter. 
    Fact: Providing 2/2/2 to VIP while non-vip is locked at 1/1/1 provides a power advantage to the VIP player. Just because harvesting does not provide a combat bonus does not mean it does not provide a power advantage to the VIP player. If viewed in a vacuum its very easy to see how the VIP player has a massive advantage, even in combat because he now has a material and likely gear advantage over his non-vip opponent. Yes its unlikely to encounter this scenario in a vacuum but that does not mean the power advantage does not exist. No player will be a island unto themselves but multiple training paths in professions even if they are forced to pick 2 of the 3 behaves as a force multiplier for the VIP player. If you took 2 small guilds of 20 players each, the guild that consisted of purely VIP players would be massively advantaged in a fight against a non-vip guild. It does not mean that the VIP guild would win every time because nothing is guaranteed. However a reasonable person would wager the VIP guild would win a war with the non-vip when looking at it on paper. Even if all players in the non-vip are combat specialists, they are still disadvantaged because the VIP guild would be able to better equip their players.
    I wont pretend to know the power curves of all professions but it is just as likely that a harvester can win a fight against a combat specialist if both players are using gear that was crafted themselves and made from materials they harvested themselves. I say this because the harvester has a material advantage that negates or eliminates the combat advantage of the combat specialist. I understand this example is rather simplistic but it holds true even when accounting for larger numbers of players. The group that has the most VIP players will have an advantage and that advantage will be greater depending on the disparity between the number of VIP players in each group.
  5. Like
    Verot got a reaction from Busama in UPDATED: ACE Q&A for September - Official discussion thread   
    I'll continue to advocate for the double dipping of combat, as it preserves the choices matter philosophy. If you decide to train combat/combat then you forgo the ability to harvest/craft efficiently. If you decide to go combat/harvest then you wont be as strong in combat as the player who decided to specialize. Nothing stops a player from specializing as harvest/harvest or craft/craft or craft/harvest, and even if they force players to pick 2 professions, the combat/harvester still has an advantage of the combat only non-vip player.
    By forcing people to pick 2 of the 3 professions, then if anything you are forcing players to train in a role that maybe they did not want to be in the first place. An example would be a player who has no desire to spend any time smashing rocks or crafting gear. This player would see no benefit in paying for VIP and as such ACE is going to miss out on that revenue.
  6. Like
    Verot got a reaction from Gummiel in UPDATED: ACE Q&A for September - Official discussion thread   
    I'll continue to advocate for the double dipping of combat, as it preserves the choices matter philosophy. If you decide to train combat/combat then you forgo the ability to harvest/craft efficiently. If you decide to go combat/harvest then you wont be as strong in combat as the player who decided to specialize. Nothing stops a player from specializing as harvest/harvest or craft/craft or craft/harvest, and even if they force players to pick 2 professions, the combat/harvester still has an advantage of the combat only non-vip player.
    By forcing people to pick 2 of the 3 professions, then if anything you are forcing players to train in a role that maybe they did not want to be in the first place. An example would be a player who has no desire to spend any time smashing rocks or crafting gear. This player would see no benefit in paying for VIP and as such ACE is going to miss out on that revenue.
  7. Like
    Verot got a reaction from KrakkenSmacken in UPDATED: ACE Q&A for September - Official discussion thread   
    I'll continue to advocate for the double dipping of combat, as it preserves the choices matter philosophy. If you decide to train combat/combat then you forgo the ability to harvest/craft efficiently. If you decide to go combat/harvest then you wont be as strong in combat as the player who decided to specialize. Nothing stops a player from specializing as harvest/harvest or craft/craft or craft/harvest, and even if they force players to pick 2 professions, the combat/harvester still has an advantage of the combat only non-vip player.
    By forcing people to pick 2 of the 3 professions, then if anything you are forcing players to train in a role that maybe they did not want to be in the first place. An example would be a player who has no desire to spend any time smashing rocks or crafting gear. This player would see no benefit in paying for VIP and as such ACE is going to miss out on that revenue.
  8. Like
    Verot reacted to KrakkenSmacken in UPDATED: ACE Q&A for September - Official discussion thread   
    Not to mention you CAN get the VIP without dropping a single dollar, because it's a tradable commodity. 
  9. Like
    Verot reacted to Zolaz in UPDATED: ACE Q&A for September - Official discussion thread   
    lol ... the purest form of P2W.  
    You do realize that in order to be Pay to Win, you actually have to win.  Double training does not give you double the advantage in PvP or in crafting.  Right now, we are talking about very small advantages for all that extra training.
  10. Like
    Verot got a reaction from KrakkenSmacken in UPDATED: ACE Q&A for September - Official discussion thread   
    $15 is not too much to ask for people who will be spending 10+ hours a week in a game. If you are not spending that kind of time in the game then you were not going to be as effective as the other VIP players anyway. If you don't want to spend the money then just trade for the VIP with other in game resources.
    Is the new VIP P2W? In the purest sense of P2W, yes.
    This is a very benign form of P2W. First it is limited in scope and terms of power. It is capped at $15 a month, and is available for cash or as a traded commodity in game. It solves the funding issues for ACE as it is a limited/expiring commodity which will require players to keep buying more.
    Also, if you restrict VIP too much then you no longer have an incentive for buying VIP and will instead just buy an alt account. A one time $30 charge for an alt account is not as beneficial to ACE as having someone pay $15 for the life of their account.
  11. Like
    Verot got a reaction from Nazdar in UPDATED: ACE Q&A for September - Official discussion thread   
    OK so I promised I was going to post my spreadsheet for boosted XP based on how it was discussed in the video Q&A.
    At 0% experience in a tree a player gets 100% xp from the tome, at 50% experience in a tree a player only gets 50% of the xp from the tome, so on and so forth. We know that tomes take a total of 3 days to accumulate enough banked XP to make a tome, so this means that only VIP accounts can CREATE tomes.  I'll be the first to admit there are probably much cleaner ways of working out this problem in excel, but this was just a first pass at it. The only thing you need to do is go to the second tab and input the number of booster accounts 1-50 and the number of days to fully train a tree (1-365). I did not extend the sheet to account for more than 365 days or more than 50 booster accounts, although I could do so easily if needed.
    Reminder - I'm not the best at math but I'm fairly confident in the logic used in this sheet, feel free to double check it.
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1jkzIVYi2nHknx2JWkK69VF2Ly8de_jfdWWGnmlj2qZ8/edit?usp=sharing
    This sheet does not fully realize the various approaches players could use to boost their accounts but as a small example.
    With 11 total accounts (1 main and 10 boosters) and the assumption that they only need 50% completion to move on to the next tier, a player could reach tier 2 in only 6 days on the main account. Roughly 6 days later the next account would reach 50%, followed by the next booster account roughly 9 days later. So, with a total of 21 days passage, this player would have his main account at tier 2 along with 2 of his 10 booster accounts. This player would then be training tier 2 skills 2-3 times faster than a non-boosting player. Those numbers will actually go higher as more and more of the booster accounts reach 50% in the tier 1 skill.
    I don't want to get too far into the weeds on the specifics because there are a lot of unknowns. Another thing a lot of players overlook is that each skill node in a tree is time weighted based on the % complete each node is. What this means is that training each node to 50% for the entire tree will be significantly faster than training 50% of the tree to 100%. This makes the skill tomes that much more powerful when it comes to boosting a player's account to get to higher tier skill trees long before it would otherwise by possible.
    While it was apparent that the devs have intended this to be another robust player market, it appears to be a market that only VIP players can participate in. It was stated that the time bank for non-vip players caps out at 24 hours, yet it takes 72 hours in the time bank to create a skill tome. From a business perspective this a good news for ACE. First it requires more players to have VIP status if they want to participate in this lucrative market. Players who already pay for VIP will need to make a decision on if its better to bulk train alt accounts, or provide VIP to another player who already has training in a desired line. Secondly, it requires the non paying VIP players to give up a percentage of the advantage they get from VIP so that they can then sell that skill tome to another player, either for more VIP or for in game goods an services. Ultimately it will result in the players who were  looking to maintain parity with VIP players supplying the very wealthy ones with the advantage they were trying to negate. Its a vicious cycle and one that ACE seems ready to capitalize on.
    Ultimately wealthy players won't have to run dozens of accounts, they already have a way to convert real world capital into in game resources by virtue of VIP. 
     
  12. Like
    Verot got a reaction from ArcJurado in Choices No Longer Have Consequences   
    I'm all for the double dipping, as it is still a choice if you want to specialize or not. VIP should be the norm. Non-VIP players could use skill tomes to overcome any power curve issues in combat that might stem from double dipping. Players will be able to go hybrid crafter/combat or specialize and go crafter/crafter. If you force the splitting of profession training to different professions, the only thing you are doing is delaying the time it takes for them to be able to play the way they want. If you provide a carrot that allows them to get to the part of the game they want sooner without making it P2W then you might just entice more players to pick up VIP, which is a good thing for the long term health of the game.
  13. Like
    Verot got a reaction from Gummiel in UPDATED: ACE Q&A for September - Official discussion thread   
    Correct, longer the game the deeper the tree, all those alt accounts will be doing their own tree advancement up until the release of tomes.
    JTC said 3-6 months from release for tomes.
    Math says 6 days to get to 50% of a 3 month skill tree using 10 booster and 1 main account.
    Deeper the tree more advantage you get because you don't hit diminishing returns as fast.
    We know people have more than 10 accounts, is it the norm? No. Will skill tomes be widely abused for account boosting other than the stated purpose of catchup? Probably not. Mountain out of a moll hill? Probably. The problem is there is not even a need for a hill, the mechanic can/should be adjusted to prevent abuse.
  14. Like
    Verot got a reaction from JamesGoblin in UPDATED: ACE Q&A for September - Official discussion thread   
    Is it any more p2w than being able to train combat/harvesting? VIP represents an advantage now. You can like the change or dislike the change, but the fact is that VIP results in game play advantage even if they don't allow double dipping into one profession (armor/weapons etc). If they force players to pick 2 of the 3 professions at a time, it will still result in VIP being advantaged.
    Assume a 10 on 10 scenario between VIP and Non-VIP players. The 10 Non-VIP players are all harvesters as are the VIP players, however the VIP players are also Combat trained and as such have a combat multiplier in their advantage. Now assume its 10 Non-VIP combat players against those some 10 VIP players. The VIP players now have a resource advantage over the Non-VIP. While every battle may not go in the VIP players favor, given enough time the war should be safely in their hands. It would be silly to think that 3 different profession offer equal power curves, it is still easy to see how a player who can both effectively gather and protect resources has an advantage over a group who can only specialize in 1.
    Obviously a large and diverse player base will most likely negate the odds of a 10 on 10 ever pitting all Non-VIP against all VIP. The force multiplier nature that VIP now represents slides the advantage towards the group that has the most VIP players with that advantage being more pronounced depending on the disparity in the number of VIP players between each group.
  15. Like
    Verot got a reaction from JamesGoblin in UPDATED: ACE Q&A for September - Official discussion thread   
    OK so I promised I was going to post my spreadsheet for boosted XP based on how it was discussed in the video Q&A.
    At 0% experience in a tree a player gets 100% xp from the tome, at 50% experience in a tree a player only gets 50% of the xp from the tome, so on and so forth. We know that tomes take a total of 3 days to accumulate enough banked XP to make a tome, so this means that only VIP accounts can CREATE tomes.  I'll be the first to admit there are probably much cleaner ways of working out this problem in excel, but this was just a first pass at it. The only thing you need to do is go to the second tab and input the number of booster accounts 1-50 and the number of days to fully train a tree (1-365). I did not extend the sheet to account for more than 365 days or more than 50 booster accounts, although I could do so easily if needed.
    Reminder - I'm not the best at math but I'm fairly confident in the logic used in this sheet, feel free to double check it.
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1jkzIVYi2nHknx2JWkK69VF2Ly8de_jfdWWGnmlj2qZ8/edit?usp=sharing
    This sheet does not fully realize the various approaches players could use to boost their accounts but as a small example.
    With 11 total accounts (1 main and 10 boosters) and the assumption that they only need 50% completion to move on to the next tier, a player could reach tier 2 in only 6 days on the main account. Roughly 6 days later the next account would reach 50%, followed by the next booster account roughly 9 days later. So, with a total of 21 days passage, this player would have his main account at tier 2 along with 2 of his 10 booster accounts. This player would then be training tier 2 skills 2-3 times faster than a non-boosting player. Those numbers will actually go higher as more and more of the booster accounts reach 50% in the tier 1 skill.
    I don't want to get too far into the weeds on the specifics because there are a lot of unknowns. Another thing a lot of players overlook is that each skill node in a tree is time weighted based on the % complete each node is. What this means is that training each node to 50% for the entire tree will be significantly faster than training 50% of the tree to 100%. This makes the skill tomes that much more powerful when it comes to boosting a player's account to get to higher tier skill trees long before it would otherwise by possible.
    While it was apparent that the devs have intended this to be another robust player market, it appears to be a market that only VIP players can participate in. It was stated that the time bank for non-vip players caps out at 24 hours, yet it takes 72 hours in the time bank to create a skill tome. From a business perspective this a good news for ACE. First it requires more players to have VIP status if they want to participate in this lucrative market. Players who already pay for VIP will need to make a decision on if its better to bulk train alt accounts, or provide VIP to another player who already has training in a desired line. Secondly, it requires the non paying VIP players to give up a percentage of the advantage they get from VIP so that they can then sell that skill tome to another player, either for more VIP or for in game goods an services. Ultimately it will result in the players who were  looking to maintain parity with VIP players supplying the very wealthy ones with the advantage they were trying to negate. Its a vicious cycle and one that ACE seems ready to capitalize on.
    Ultimately wealthy players won't have to run dozens of accounts, they already have a way to convert real world capital into in game resources by virtue of VIP. 
     
  16. Like
    Verot got a reaction from dyonthegrey in Skill Tome Suggestion   
    I would suggest the devs put a cap on skill tomes use so that an account can't have more total training time than can be earned by a single VIP account since launch.
    This allows players to catch up if they were gone for an extended period of time, or if they are converting from a non-vip account to a vip account. It also prevents abuse of the system to boost past the normal time restrictions for training.
  17. Like
    Verot got a reaction from JamesGoblin in UPDATED: ACE Q&A for September - Official discussion thread   
    Why not? He compared the ability to bypass time constraints on veteran accounts to giving my low level buddy a sword.
    If we use the monster that is WoW as an example. There is a difference between giving a low level character (often your alt) a max stat weapon for that character level, either for the purpose of speeding up leveling or competing in level restricted battle grounds, and what has been proposed here. In the context of WoW it would be like me being able give my guild leader my raid entrances for the week so that he can can a full set of gear in less time than would otherwise be possible. You are not twinking a low level character, you are bypassing restrictions for high level accounts.
  18. Like
    Verot got a reaction from JamesGoblin in UPDATED: ACE Q&A for September - Official discussion thread   
    I would just say this.
    If you are the type of competitive player, which CF is surely a competitive game, then you will be a VIP member. If you are a casual player who wants to be competitive, then you will still be a VIP member. If you just want to be part of the team and help out where you can then go non-VIP and realize you were never going to be as effective as the VIP to begin with. At least that is what I'm taking from @KrakkenSmacken
    Even if I'm a VIP player, i could still be at a disadvantage to a non-vip player. The non-vip could be able to put in 18 hours a day on CF, collecting materials and killing players to get their gear while obtaining a level of knowledge about the game that my 8-5 job will never allow me to get. There is a wide swath of players and advantages will be obtained in a wide range of ways. I don't quite see VIP as p2w, but apparently we are all entitled to our own definitions of words.
  19. Like
    Verot got a reaction from JamesGoblin in UPDATED: ACE Q&A for September - Official discussion thread   
    Out of all the information contained, this is the one bit you decided to address in the post? OK let's see how it holds up.
    From WIKI for those who did not follow his link.
    Twinking is a type of behavior in role-playing video games. A player who engages in such behavior is known as a twink. The precise definition of twinking varies depending on the variety of role-playing game. In "pen and paper" role-playing games, a twink is often synonymous with a munchkin.[1] In MUDs, a twink is a player who is variously anything from a munchkin to a newbie to a griefer.[2] In MMORPGs, twinking refers to a character gaining equipment with the assistance of a higher level character, particularly by giving said low level character higher level equipment that is otherwise unattainable,[2][3][4] or the process of keeping a video game character at a low level while using in-game currency, earned by a high level character, to provide it with superior equipment.[5][6]
    First, lets address the fact that the definition varies depending on type of role playing game. Crowfall is most definitely not a pen and paper game so we can safely exclude munchkin. Crowfall is also not a MUD, plus the comparison here is of wildly different player types (munchkin, newbie, griefer), although it could be argued they are not exclusive of one another. Let's focus on the MMORPG definition, which basically revolves around high end players giving low level players equipment they would not normally be able to obtain by themselves. So far so good, especially considering that there are not level or skill restrictions on gear, outside of required class or discipline. The main issue however is that is a exclusively revolves around benefiting a low level character, which is not always the case for skill tomes. I'll contend that skill tomes represent an in game item sense they can be traded, but it most certainly is not an item in the context of what is defined, higher level equipment that is otherwise unattainable. It would be a pretty far stretch to define training time as equipment. The other problem is that this "twinking" can be applied to veteran high level players to bypass the confines of time.
    TL;DR - @jtoddcoleman You purposely misinterpreted the concept of twinking to justify a poorly conceptualized "catch up mechanic".
     
  20. Like
    Verot got a reaction from JamesGoblin in UPDATED: ACE Q&A for September - Official discussion thread   
    Correct, longer the game the deeper the tree, all those alt accounts will be doing their own tree advancement up until the release of tomes.
    JTC said 3-6 months from release for tomes.
    Math says 6 days to get to 50% of a 3 month skill tree using 10 booster and 1 main account.
    Deeper the tree more advantage you get because you don't hit diminishing returns as fast.
    We know people have more than 10 accounts, is it the norm? No. Will skill tomes be widely abused for account boosting other than the stated purpose of catchup? Probably not. Mountain out of a moll hill? Probably. The problem is there is not even a need for a hill, the mechanic can/should be adjusted to prevent abuse.
  21. Like
    Verot got a reaction from JamesGoblin in UPDATED: ACE Q&A for September - Official discussion thread   
    Core 1 deliverable was/is supposed to be the dregs rule set and its exactly where I plan on playing. I don't particularly think the dregs rule set eliminates the advantage problem either.
    Yes, you can mitigate the effect of single players boosted accounts based on the accumulation of effort etc. I don't see the boosted accounts being combat heroes in massive guild battles, but more in logistical advantages. A guild boosts a couple of crafter/harvester accounts which can then use factories long before other players/guilds and now they don't need to the manpower dedicated to supplying gear and resources that another guild will. This frees up players to go hunt down the gathering/crafter players of enemy guilds which will further the boosted guilds gear/resource advantage. And while I do think the main advantage will be logistical, if SB is any indication the vast majority of conflicts in this game will be small/mid sized group encounters, where if you have a multi-year training advantage it should be more than enough to tilt the battle in your favor. There are already players complaining in pre-alpha that they are too far behind in skills to compete with the early backers.
    Ultimately ACE has created a problem by attempting to solve a problem now that they admitted would be a problem for "future JTC and Blair" but for whatever reason they decided to address now. From a marketing and revenue generation aspect this skill tome mechanic is fantastic.
    I'm very happy with their Time Bank mechanic and personally I'm pretty happy with the VIP 2/2/2 setup, even with "double dipping".
  22. Like
    Verot got a reaction from JamesGoblin in UPDATED: ACE Q&A for September - Official discussion thread   
    The pushing of boundaries never stops. There will be new skill lines as the game grows over time. By allowing players to bypass the time restrictions you give them a significant advantage. If I can more effectively harvest higher tier resources while regular accounts can't even damage them, then I have given myself/guild a massive advantage. Without these tomes I don't see any players hitting 100% skill training in every tree, but I don't think it was part of the big picture design to ever have players do that. I'm ok with players not being 100% fully trained.
    A catch up mechanic will be needed at some point, so I don't have a problem with that. I understand people's hesitation towards the 2/2/2 approach, but personally I don't think that is nearly as big of an issues as what we currently know about skill tomes. Non-VIP can use in game resources to get VIP or skill tomes to eliminate any advantage 2/2/2 might give. I would also agree that the original implementation of the role specialization swung too far in the form of being restrictive.
  23. Like
    Verot got a reaction from JamesGoblin in UPDATED: ACE Q&A for September - Official discussion thread   
    I agree that they can make skill tomes work. There are plenty of options, I'm still partial to a total training time cap for accounts which means you can't have more training time on the account than could be earned naturally since the time of game launch.
  24. Like
    Verot reacted to Nazdar in UPDATED: ACE Q&A for September - Official discussion thread   
    I've been stewing on this since the stream yesterday.  I have mixed feelings.
    First:  I've been saying since Day 1 that VIP (as originally explained) was a business model waiting to fail.  This fixes that - no question.  It's not classic Pay 2 Win, but it's in that quadrant, and that's enough to boost revenue 10x-100x.  We now have a potentially successful business model:  one big step forward.
    Second:  My inner Idealistic Gamer just died a little.   I really wanted something that was Pure and Fair.  Todd started talking about the Time Bank and I got really excited.  "I'd pay for that!" I thought.  Then he started explaining Tomes.  "Oh, so they're cleverly masked micro-transactions that you purchase on a subscription schedule. Got it."  One sad step back.
    Third:  It does provide a catch-up mechanic.  Not a perfect mechanism, but it fills that gap.  That's another step forward.
    Fourth:  "But, they have DIMINISHING RETURNS!"  Please, stop saying that.  Everything in an MMO has diminishing returns.  If min/maxing has taught me anything, it's that players will invest heavily in diminishing returns.  It sounds like a bad excuse, and it's a little unbecoming of professional game designers. :P  I've come to expect better of the ACE team.
    Fifth:  If you're going to have tomes, you're going to have a black market.  This can be avoided be selling the tomes yourself.  Yes, it's ugly (like micro-transactions).  Add it to the store and it becomes an alternative to alt accounts and it short-circuits out-of-game trading (a support nightmare) and saves ACE resources in the long run.
    Synopsis:  Time Banks and Tomes are good progress, but they carry some very real collateral damage.  The self-proclaimed "knock it out of the park" may have been premature, but I have faith that ACE will get paid now, and that's a Good Thing.
  25. Like
    Verot got a reaction from Nazdar in UPDATED: ACE Q&A for September - Official discussion thread   
    The cosmetic model is tricky here though. Almost nothing in this game is permanent, would you likely pay for a cosmetic armor set if it can be lost in one battle or is destroyed at the end of the campaign? Would you pay for cosmetics that are only available in the EK? I'm not saying you are wrong and that people won't pay, I just think its a bit trickier to do cosmetics only here. It would result in the devs devoting the vast majority of their time to creating new art/animations etc instead of building and growing the game because that is what would be funding the development. At least with VIP its a one off development cost that is continually useful and consumable which means players need to keep coming back to the trough.
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