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About Nightmarian

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    Reading, writing, RPGs, Warhammer, Anime, dogs, gaming, Steam
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    [Looking for one.]
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    Tualatin, Oregon
  1. Thanks. I have some hope left, then. I have some friends who want to play but it'd only take 10 minutes of that crap before they logged out and never looked back. We'll see if they iron out the rest of the game's snags.
  2. Me too; I'm betting on them announcing it's not coming. It's been way too long without word for there to be anything else to say.
  3. Kind of gave up on everything after New World fell through and CU basically announced they were never going to release a complete game. I figured Crowfall might be final hope at the moment, but I last left it pretty unenthused. Pretty simple question: Do you still need to level up in a safe zone before you can jump in and actually play the game? If you do, did they shorten the time it takes or improve it (drastically). Last time my only thought was "This is boring and quite possibly the worst made socks PvE system I've ever seen." Thanks.
  4. 1. I sincerely hope that is the case, but until it happens I will comment on what we are currently testing instead of what I hope they eventually do. 2+3. Good. Import/export should be "too much of a problem" as it's the whole reason they exist. You should need to struggle from scratch as much as anyone else in a campaign with the only consistent benefit being your spirit crow and whatever scant resources import rules allow. Using ArtCraft's silly little board game example, you normally don't play start fresh in a board game halfway through its gameplay loop. Dregs will probably solve this issue as well as normal campaigns forcing people to go through import rules, but eh who knows. I'll agree with you for now though and chalk it up to testing environment. Well, I do think it's practical. Or rather, it can be. This is directly a failure of Crowfall rather than anything intangible. Many (more complex) games have successfully taught players in less time Crowfall attempts to, and the best ones do it organically (Crowfall does not). Crowfall's current "learning curve" is still terrible, so I'm not sure what benefit you're seeing here. They need a much better tutorial and it definitely should take less than "2 hours to hit 30 but only if you're prepared and already know what you're doing". That's more than enough time for players to get bored and quit. There's also no actual gameplay impact to this and it's teaching them nothing about core aspects of the game like the pvp meta (which players will need to teach) or general combat against other players. Just the very basics of crafting and the generic kill x mob to get x reward stuff... There's also something to be said about forcing community interaction - something that's supposed to be core to the game. On top of that, I'd imagine just as many people will be turned off by the poor PvE experience after comparing it to just about literally every other MMORPG or confusion as to why they're grinding uninteresting mobs with PvP abilities in a PvP game. One of my friends tried the game on my account and quit for literally that reason, so it's by no means a long stretch. This is a design flaw and can and should be fixed. Many old games did many terrible/stupid things that wouldn't go over well today, but that doesn't mean we should give up on finding better ways to do them. That's literally what genre evolution/modernization is and, again, has been done literally thousands of times by other games. Shadowbane is old. Nod at it, get inspiration from it maybe, but leave that old rotting game in its grave. As for the levels, well, I keep hearing levels are to add a"learning" curve for new players but still don't know what it's supposed to teach or how it functionally improves on the gameloop at all the way it is now. Ironically, I thought your own take ridiculous. And, honestly, I really feel that I'm the one who cares about crafters because no, they're not just fodder to me - they are players who should be playing the campaigns - the core offering of the game. Right now they're background NPCs with no real presence in the meta aspects of the game other than delivery of pre-crafted items. I would much prefer they become part of the mental game of guilds and players - the risk and reward of crafting near sieges or battlegrounds, the tactical decision of where you build your cities (or what cities you take) and how safe they might be for crafters, or the constant harassing of crafters as a viable tactic if guilds/factions don't protect them as well as supply lines. This actually mimics real life - armies depended very heavily on the support they received. I'm a former soldier, and even today there's an old ideology that for every 1 soldier that fights there are 10 others supporting him in some way. Veteran/intelligent commanders understood this and they at times made many other actions more effective targets than just killing peoples. I.e. destroy an army's supply of food and/or water and you destroy the army. As things are right now those like you are the ones who don't value crafters. You see them as simple tools, a means to the end, and you just don't want to risk your or your guild's little account/alt sweatshops. Meanwhile I want there to be risk/reward for most aspects of the game and for players to be actively thinking about how they do things exactly along the lines of those risks and rewards. That's how you create tension, conflict, and keep things interesting. That means putting crafters in a position where they are vulnerable. Mindless and pointless killing is boring, which is a huge problem with the rinse/repeat format in other games with PvP. Killing that has an impact on the game state or what you do - like crippling a guild's crafting ability - gives the killing meaning and agency. Again, using ArtCraft's boardgame analogy, if you've played any good wargames this is exactly the kind of stuff they love doing to great effect. You also see that this works well in a lot of other game genres with pvp that are resource dependent/tactical and naturally it then improves the opportunities for tactical gameplay as a result. Doesn't happen in MMORPGs outside a few excepts (EvE only, maybe?), but yeah. I honestly can't imagine how letting crafters craft in complete saftey with safely stacked/crafted sets of perfect crafting gear is in any way a good thing other than for the crafters... I mean, I'd like to break down a castle or suck in resources without anyone bothering me, as well as kill players without them fighting back, I guess... but it's just, you know, kind of against the point of the game? This isn't even a "hardcore" view - this, I thought, was the whole point of the game. Trying to do stuff while other people try to do it better and stop you from doing it with some maybe ingame "political" reasons thrown in like all the drama we see from EvE. Again, I'm not going to sit here and demand the game be what I want - these are just my opinions and maybe the game isn't for me. I'm definitely leaning towards CU right now, certainly. I'm also more than a little worried about what the final state of the game might look like. Definitely not alone there either going by the forum here and definitely reddit, and the MMORPG genre is already pretty iffy as is right now. Crowfall is not going to release into a receptive market and I still don't think it has the zing it needs for even a small tight playerbase. Even us, the "hardcore fans" who gambled on an unfinished game are very divided about... a lot of components of the game. Eh.
  5. Thanks for the reply. I'm not expecting the game to be an FPS or MOBA, but so far pretty much every game that has PvP as an afterthought has a better PvP design focused around rewarding you for... PvPing. Maybe this will get better down the road when all these things you mentioned are actually added to the game and the population gets bigger, but from what I'm reading a ton of people spend a lot of time in God's Reach. Where it up to me, there would be no safe zones in the game. No leveling up either, but eh, since it's here, leveling should be dangerous at all times and you should viably be able to earn xp through killing other players of your same/higher level or through being opportunistic (guilds/raiding groups), or maybe through other means like scouting or crafting for you guild (which would encourage you to actively be a part of the guild instead of having them pat you on the head and tell you to begone and mindlessly grind until you "grow up" at level 30). With proper design, like maybe being able to hit the first few levels (5 max) in a safe starting area to teach the game, this would work fine in most game types, as leveling will always be dangerous. This is the draw of many open world pvp games of old and even lazy hybrids like WoW that so far Crowfall utterly fails to capture that. Even EvE does this better by make non-secure secs vastly more enticing through overwhelming risk/rewards. Playing it safe is generally the slow ineffective route rather than the natural choice like in Crowfall atm. It shouldn't even be a concern in the dregs, so I'll skip worry about it until we get there. Crafters should never be safe. They should find a copse of trees to hide in and secretly craft and travel across the land with eyes on every horizon or invest in guards or guild protection. Finding a crafter's little hideout should be something players are capable of and should be a risk/reward of crafters who don't hire protection or use guild/faction protection (which should still be technically dangerous through siege or stealthy intrusion). The option for stories of heists about guilds stealing amazing crafted gear right from the corpses of crafters should exist, but right now crafters just sit in saftey, completely bypassing the PvP metagame. IMO, nearly everything in the game should have some element of risk and should ultimately encourage PvP, whether that's fighting for resources, leveling spots, safe crafting havens etc. Distrupting a guild's crafting ability by punishing their crafters should be an option, etc. I've played many PvP games in my time and it's baffling that even some of the more terrible ones have a better world PvP experience than Crowfall so far, as the battles for resources or protecting faction leveling spaces ensured there was something worthwhile to do at all times. Especially since Crowfall is supposed to focus specifically on these competitive elements and PvP itself while these other games had a very strong PvE component that is already vastly superior to Crowfall's (and probably always will be). I thought this might have been just me, but I've already seen similar complaints echoed by many other players after reading through reddit and the forums, so I don't think I'm alone. I'll be fair and say it could be an early development issue or population issue, but I doubt it, and steps taking by devs (like dropping PvP loot from mobs) shows that they're realizing this is going to be a problem. I'm sure some people would like to spend four hours in a safe zone gathering basic mats or grinding then pvping for an hour only to do it all over again, but many of us won't. The guilds that won't need everyone pulling weight will probably be massive, and even then I have a hard time imagining those guilds not requiring even their "muscle" to help gather materials as they are separate lines and something they could do instead of standing around "guarding". As it stands, there's just not a lot of incentive to take risks and so not a lot of incentive to PvP. Most PvP I've seen so far seems mostly planned (I'll give it a pass to population issues). If I wanted structured PvP matchmaking then, well, I'd play a game with that. Crowfall was supposed to be about political PvP, i.e. lots of incentives forcing conflict like limited space, time, and resources, but right now none of that is true. The game is nothing like EvE either, which it professes to take inspiration from. Again, I'm starting to realize that this just might not be the game many of us hoped it would be (There are some people who are very happy that it's a economy/crafter first game and PvP game second), but I'm leaning towards Camelot Unchained now since it seems to have many less steps to actually PvPing and pretty much everything outside the cosmetic safe towns is focused around PvP and control. Hopefully it'll release someday...
  6. Thanks for the reply. I guess the second point is a bigger problem. I've only been dipping my toes myself due to various issues, but I was hoping things would be ramping up with the reward campaigns and all. Ah well.
  7. Agreed, this has been a concern for me and has kept me from playing for some time now.
  8. How long does it take to hit level 30? Is PvP basically not viable until you hit level 30? What's the general game loop at right now at level 30? 70% crafting/gathering 30% doing PvP objectives? Are there even any PvP objectives? I last played many months ago and literally cried myself off the server when I began the terrible PvE experience and realized it was going to be this mindless grind. I was bored to death after like 15 minutes and was hoping this would be addressed later or at least made more interesting. There are literally Asian grinder MMORPGs out there with a better PvE experience. If this is the future of the game loop I might have to seriously reconsider my interest, though I don't begrudge anyone who enjoys this kind of stuff, I guess. I really mostly just want to PvP, not spend most of my gaming time punching trees down or mindlessly grinding in PvE lol, and was hoping the crafting/harvesting stuff would be a choice rather than a requirement (or, so far, the whole point of the game).
  9. Eh, and here I am reliving my fears from many months ago that this game would become a slightly (slightly) prettier looking Minecraft. Oh well, I guess a political throne war similar would really would just be Economics: the Simulator anyway. Honestly, I was hoping the game would be more centered around PvP and reasons to encourage PvP but so far that doesn't seem to be the case. Honestly, I kind of realized Crowfall probably wouldn't be the game I hoped it would when they added the terrible leveling curve and then allowed it to be done mostly (entirely?) in safe zones. Camelot Unchained at least seems to be leaning more heavily on the PvP side of things, so I still have some hope... Unfortunately, CU has missed all its timelines just like Crowfall and its ability to even release as a viable product remains just as dubious, so I guess I'll clench my buttcheeks for another year and see what the dice say. 2021 here we come, I guess. There's not much new and fresh out there in the vein of competitive PvP games outside of the heavily monetized stuff owned by questionable companies like Hearthstone, Siege, and League... And man, when all these stumbling crowd-funded MMORPGs eventually flop I really do think that's going to be the nail for the genre. The next couple of years are looking bleak for any PvP lover hoping for something fresh.
  10. How's performance now in large fights? Any optimization work done yet or is that being saved for the polish planned for early next year?
  11. The idea is to create fun and meaningful objectives that encourage PvP at all levels. For instance, holding a quarry mine with A.I. instead of just chomping at rocks like a convict. Like an RTS, as long as I hold that mine I generate stone (through slaves, vessels, golems, or whatever flavor you want to give the AI, that need to be protected. They'd be no different than the in-game monsters being used as resources/fodder). I want stone, I need the mine. There are big ones, there are small ones, a small group might claim a few small ones out in the edges, big groups take the super ones. My guild/group claims a shred of territory that is rich in stone but low in, I don't know, wood or good farming land. We have tons of stone, but no food; we trade or raid for food, alliance with another guild. Another guild wants our quarries, they start fighting. Smaller groups know food is important to the stone desert group, go to sell to them for weapons/mats/stone and try to do it safely while opposing guilds steal or offer better deals to starve out competitor. At no time should we need to sit around punching a tree for wood for three hours (I respect crafters and player-run economy, but I never will understand the draw...) just to be able to go stop other people from doing the same and win the minecraft race. Like an RTS, we should be looking to protect our economy, increase it, or harass/harm that of others. Not be a grunt and do the tedious work ourselves. This is just a messy example and just how I personally feel, but I know that there are paths to fixing the lack of stronger PvP workflows and the absurd dependency on crafting and crafters to simply play. The randamo loot they are giving us is another example of an attempt. Making PvE actually, I don't know, not terrible would also at least go a long way to making it less boring/tedious, or changing up how we harvest from them, or making them limited spawns we have to fight over. I'm not claiming to be a genius, but I do know that sitting there spamming "1" on zero threat spiders for a few hours in what is supposed to be a PvP game isn't fun at all. We don't need max level characters jumping in, but everything should be designed around forcing fights at some point - i.e. the only way to get xp should be through PvP-related stuff, not PvE mobs. There should be no useful safe camps. So on, so on. Agreed that leveling is definitely not, and agreed that it really doesn't fit. Everything else does but at widely different levels; i.e. spending hours collecting resources to "get ready" for PvP supports/catalysts PvP, BUT... That's not the core problem. The core problem is that the "PvE" and a lot of the other stuff that supports the "PvP" isn't all that great and is either too much of the game loop, too terrible/boring/tedious, or too crazily important that it has to be done just to be able to pvp. That is literally why they added random loot, so that people can spend more time fighting than being bottle-necked at a crafting line, especially when resources are tight because you can't effectively go farm trees or whatever. Of course, the way you get these things is still lackluster PvE so meh.
  12. A bit late of a reply, but that's nothing wrong with "Achieving peak character loadouts" quickly. All of the top "PvP" games like shooters (siege, Overwatch) and stuff like MOBAs (league of legends, Dota) have a flat power curve (you start peak) or a insanely shallow one (you peak with 30 min to an hour in a MOBA usually), yet the game's still fun as hell to play. These games are already far more limited in space and diversity than Crowfall, as your build possibilities are more limited and the set of maps/regions/territory is usually limited. Yet people still love them. One of my favorite PvP MMO forays was Guild Wars 2, which, despite having a custardton other problems, let you hop into structured PVP with access to all abilities and the same stat sets as everyone else. It may sound crazy, but some people just like playing for fun, for blood and glory. I just want good PvP fights. At this point I'd rather prefer it being easy to make a peak-combat character, letting skill cover the rest, and putting the gameplay in a good metagame through strong, interesting objectives. Everything else should be important but secondary, imo. They seem to be going this direction with recent changes (more forgiving hunger, randamo loot), which I guess is a good thing. They just need to actually make it work. You really shouldn't spend more time "making" a "viable" character (not fully peak but competitive) than you do actually using it to PvP in a freaking PvP game. That's why I don't understand BDO PvPers who literally spend all day grinding just to remain relevant in PvP. Not my game, that's for sure.
  13. I've been lurking for a while ever since quite a few versions ago and the realization that Crowfall would probably never be "the game". As each current crowd-funded MMORPG continues to stray further from their original promises/visions/goals, I don't imagine the MMORPG scene will be looking all that great in 5 years (the lion's share of upcoming MMORPGs that aren't instead curated smaller hybrids like looter shooters/mobas/royales are crowd-funded). When they first added the leveling camp hogwash, I complained, and loudly, because I'm not interested in playing a PvP game for joy of instead getting incredibly uninspired PvE just to earn the "right" to PvP. Before that, I complained about how annoying it was to have to depend on crafters or crafting to pretty much do anything (though I understand it was a symptom of the testing environment, I noted this should never exist as a possibility, old craft or die games be damned), and was ridiculed for that (a dev even poked at me). They're ironically addressing that very issue now with randamo loot, which is a good sign, I guess, but I'm not sure about how they're going about it... Anyway, what will it take to bring me back? We can start with a game that's actually fun to play... I want to PvP. I don't want to play ghetto Minecraft for 10 hours and then go suck a crafter's schlong for gear just to lose it after one hour of fun. The more steps between me logging in and PvPing, the less likely I am to play. Right now it's pretty bad. The grind may not be the worst I've encountered (I've played EQ and FFXI for years), but it's just as terrible in terms of quality. It's not fun. You have to "take it in rear" to be able to do what you want eventually, which is toxic MMORPG design we should be trying to fix and not encourage. I get the problem of nuances and complexity, i.e. economy, meaningful crafting, ect, and know it's not going to be easy to fix, but eh it's simple enough for me. If I have to grind extensively/constantly or spend a lot of time before I actually get to PvP, then I just won't play the game and neither will tons of PvP fans probably. PvErs won't have much reason to fill in the gap because frankly the game's PvE is god awful in every way and pales against pretty much any other game. So my friends and I are in the same boat as the OP's friends. We have a ton of terrific games coming out this year and next, and some new COOP games to try and a few upcoming PvP forays, so I've little reason to waste my time on a game that claims to be a PvP game but is dressing itself more and more like a PvE game with side PvP content, even if that PvP content, when it works and is actually present, is much better than most. I've pretty much given up on MMORPGs though so my hopefulness here is pretty wistful, and doubt that either Crowfall or Camelot are going to be the ones to offer us a good alternative to symmetrical sports-like PvP games (team/hero shooters, MOBAs). Might just need battle royales to merge with a better take on Mordhau or something, I don't know.
  14. Well, they showed a Frostweaver being created in the recent UI change preview, so at least we're pretty sure it's still coming. That's something.
  15. Don't worry, I'm aware of the pre alpha/alpha conditions and have absolutely zero problems with it, but some are definitely better or worse experiences than others. I was part of the FFXIV alpha and while the game was far far more playable and complete than Crowfall currently is FFXIV was also a pretty terrible game at that point (this was before their relaunch). That's kind of the point of my original question. I like delving in once and a while and don't regret my backing in the slightest, as I enjoy supporting projects like this and like poking in every once in a while, but it's rare I spend too much time testing an unfinished product for free (way too many other things going on). For FFXIV, for example, I was paid. Anyway, Crowfall is caught in the same sludge as Star Citizen, Camelot Unchained, Pantheon, Chronicles of Elyria, and Ashes of Creation (which made a Battle Royale from their assets out of the blue, supposedly for "testing" despite selling cosmetics for real money during it haha). As many of these games are the hopefuls of a genre that is otherwise stagnant, it's offputting that not a single one appears anywhere near ready for release. Anyway, thanks for your response.
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