wabben77

Testers
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  1. Market Economy

    That's fine about the auction house, but what is the solution for individuals to sell their crap? Is the only way to sell your stuff to set up your own vendor?
  2. Market Economy

    Yeah I'm skeptical on how this all will work and be organized. I am really really not keen on gather and craft everything you need yourself. I really think there needs to be a way to easily find what you need, or see an overall listing of what is available and where. The little icon above each vendor's head is a start, but still. Allowing players to create buy order listings would be nice as well. If it's not done in game it will be done 3rd party online a la warframe's market.
  3. Market Concerns

    Yeah that may very well be the case. We don't really know what impact the market EKs will have on the actual campaign gameplay yet at all. My assumption is people will import their best vessels and equipment right off the bat, the crafters will import the materials they need to get started mass producing, and a land rush will begin. Ah well, the main point of my post was to advocate for a market with clear information to foster competition so people have an opportunity for the most fair price possible, and to limit what the big wal-mart EKs can get away with. I suppose it's a moot point if the Eks don't end up influencing the campaigns as much as I suspect they will.
  4. Market Concerns

    LOL! fair enough :). I thought I would put my input here and see what people thought. It seems like most people are against the market listing idea so I'll give it up. I just know how useful it is and how many activities it can lead to through trade and manufacturing from my 7 years in eve online. I suppose I will do it the old fashioned way and find the prices in EKs myself :).
  5. Market Concerns

    I know nobody wants to spend a weekend in thrift stores and garage sales, that is WHY I think listings are a good idea. Except that is exactly what people do every day in eve online. Some people that is ALL they do. No, I have a problem with having no reason to visit any EK except whichever one is the most popular, even if it has bad pricing. Transparent price listings give a reason and an activity for traders in the game. Fair enough, I didn't take a college course on economics. Even if this is the case, is that a good enough reason to render all other market EKs useless even if they offer better prices? It depends on the rules, but it is too early to argue about this until we see how it pans out. I suspect whatever guild controls the market will steamroll but if the import rules are strict then you are right this will not be a problem.
  6. Market Concerns

    Yes, they already have a convenience advantage, but if you give visibility to other people's markets that may have lower prices you don't exacerbate the problem by making them the only markets you are able to trade reasonably.
  7. Market Concerns

    Yes, that is what happens and it IS a problem. It is this way in the USA more now than it used to be. There used to be strict enforcement of anti-trust laws to combat this. You may not be able to beat it but you can limit the damage it does. A listing WILL help alleviate the problem. You don't want one group of people controlling all the money in the game, and that is what will happen if the buy and sell orders are controlled by one or two groups of people. If you don't want to see one group constantly dominating the dregs with top tier equipment make it as easy as possible for small guys to compete.
  8. Market Concerns

    I understand what you're saying, but the vast majority of transactions will already be without any interaction whatsoever due to the thrall system. If the game can pull off a functioning and robust economy without market and price listings I will be a happy camper. What I am guessing will happen is the price will be set by one or two EK's that do the vast majority of the trading volume in the game, while all other EKs have absolutely no visitors. This decreases competition, drives up sell orders, drives down buy orders, and makes 99%+ EK's irrelevant. We already see this phenomenon in eve online where there are only a few space stations used for trade, and the rest of them are dead markets. The problem will be even worse in crowfall because there is no travel time between EKs so far. There is even less impetus to use other markets besides whichever has the most inventory and cash. Eve online is THE most community focused game on the market to this day and uses this system. I don't see how it would make the game less about community when all the market interactions are already with a thrall and not a real person. Either way if it is not included in the game I'm sure there will be a third party listing service online sometime after release anyway.
  9. Market Concerns

    I don't necessarily want you to be able to purchase directly from the list, just for a list to be available so you can see what is on offer and for what price. As far as a market having a good reputation.... I don't see how it could have a bad reputation as what is on the thralls is at a set price. If transactions were carried out between players I could see reputation having a big impact on a market's success, but that isn't the case. You have to remember, there will be thousands of players, each with their own EK. Judging by how many are set to public already in the closed alpha, how in the heck are you supposed to FIND anything without a market listing? How often will a hub be online? I can't even find the LFG bazaar on the list as we speak. How can you be assured you are getting a fair price as a crafter? Without a market listing there will be exactly one de facto trading hub. In eve online there are 4 major trading hubs all in different regions of space. The reason there are four is because you actually have to spend time to travel to the specific market. In crowfall there is no travel time to different EKs so there will simply be one market everyone goes to. It will be the place that always has a stock of everything, and if you want to sell something of your own you will be at the mercy of whatever their buy order is set to, which will be very very low.
  10. Market Concerns

    That will solve quite a few problems on its own. If there isn't a listing in-game I'm sure there will be a third party website you can go to that will list buy and sell orders attached to what EK they are in similar to how warframe's trading works.
  11. Market Concerns

    Hello there! Sorry in advance for the wall of text. I'm a little concerned about how the market is going to work in this game. The huge amounts and grades of materials will ensure crafting is rich, complex, and difficult. The problem with this is actually getting a hold of the materials you are looking for. I 100% agree with the design philosophy of interdependence among players when it comes to crafting. This fosters a healthy and vibrant commodity market with many market participants and many transactions going through every day. This interdependence allows for specialization of individuals, and makes for a game experience where individuals can choose what they want to do while earning a good amount of coin. So what is the problem you might ask?The problem comes in when you consider how the eternal kingdoms work, the lack of an option to search for specific items without entering each individual EK, and the inability to place BUY orders. So lets take a look at problem #1. Eternal kingdoms work on the basis of creating a vendor, and then supplying that vendor with goods that you have bought or made yourself, and then people come in to buy them. If the market EK is offline, good luck. In order to see what each vendor has for sale, you must check each individual vendor, and they may or may not have what you're looking for. If they do have what you're looking for, great! If not, go to the next market EK and repeat the process. A game with a simple crafting system, and a small list of materials and components this would work just fine, as all things are easy to create, or at least easy to obtain. In a game with numerous grades of many different resources, many different components and tons of different weapons armors and disciplines this is going to be a HUGE problem. Problem #2: Lack of a clear market listing server/game wide. If you don't have a market listing of different sellers and buyers for particular items such as a sell order for green ore 50 gold/unit with 50 units available, 100 gold/unit with 200 available and so on it will be next to impossible to find a steady supply of the items you need without getting ripped off. If you are specialized in leatherworking for example, how can you make your goods visible? Where are the harvesters supposed to sell their ore without making vendors in their own EK and hoping someone wades through the overwhelming "browse" list?? Problem #3 Inability to place "buy" orders. In order for a complex marketplace to work you NEED traders. You need more than a few EKs setup to sell what they have on hand. You need LIQUIDITY. Without buy orders in place for harvesters and crafters to quickly offload their goods for the listed price you are going to have a lot of production, but no way to capitalize on your activities. Using the previous example of a leatherworker, they could simply sell all of their goods to a buy order without needing to create a vendor and list anything at all. In the current system harvesters and crafters will be at the mercy of a few large EKs and will receive only what they are willing to pay. My thoughts on a solution to these problems. Have a market window on the EK browser, or a market window in-game that will list all available goods with their prices clearly listed for all online EKs. This will allow small scale players to display their goods without being at the mercy of large market EKs, and make it easier for players to find what they are looking for at a fair price. Allow a buy order vendor that will buy all the things you wish at a set price. Make all of these visible on an in-game market window or on the EK window when choosing a world. Thanks to any of you brave folks who took the time to read this wall of text! I think this will be a great game, but without a market that works very well I don't think there will be much reward for people who choose to specialize, and people who strive to be self sufficient will be rewarded. This will take away from the social aspect of the game, and the reward of your chosen profession except to the very large guilds and market EKs.
  12. I looked into the disciplines a bit more and it is far more open than I thought. Almost any class can take any discipline, and that is good news. I hope the promotions do offer more player choice and not just a straight up swapping of abilities, and I agree it is too early to tell. A game coming from the devs of shadowbane wouldn't flush character customization down the toilet. I am very excited for the game and can't wait to see the promotions and disciplines come into play. Nice chatting with you.
  13. The discipline system looks pretty much lifted straight from shadowbane, and that isn't a bad thing. I recognized almost all of them. If the disciplines in this game play more of a role than they did in shadowbane, I think that would be a good enough compromise and satisfy the need to have a little unpredictability in each encounter. I would still greatly prefer being able to train a few active abilities in the skill tree. Maybe have your 4 or 5 base abilities then the option to slot in disciplines or have like 8 or so abilities you can choose to train in the skill tree. Even after training those abilities you are forced to choose between discipline skills, skills you trained in your tree, abilities you got for your promotion class, and your base abilities. The problem with NOT having enough customization alludes to what you said about FOTM builds. People will simply play the most powerful archetype at the time. Developers end up playing balance whack a mole instead of players devising new ways to beat flavor of the month builds with their own preferred archetype. Having a decent amount of customization options leads to an organic balance that players reach naturally, as happened in shadowbane and continues to happen in eve online. Developers of course have to make small tweaks here and there, but you don't see people massively choosing one archetype over all others. Using overwatch as an example, First it was Mcree dominance, everyone wanted him and played nothing else. Then widowmaker, Then those guys got nerfed so they played something else. On and on and on. There are so many balance changes in overwatch it's ridiculous. This problem will be compounded when people can actually lose loot from encounters.
  14. maybe you are right about the tactical aspect in large battles, but from what I've seen so far I don't think that will be the case. Either way the small group skirmishes will get pretty old pretty quickly if there isn't ALOT more variety than is currently in the game.
  15. Chess is quite fun for the person moving the pieces, not so much for the pieces themselves, and this is what my post was speaking to.