dead sparrow

a tutorial, character build angle: that's a good point. i don't think it's my strong suit, but i think there would be interest in this.

i think this is right. i would probably go for the delay, but have the same worry...and i'm assuming my guild peeps would be pretty uncomfortable with that even, for good reasons.

i'm having trouble thinking of how livestreams could really work, didn't know if folks out there have found creative solutions. i'm definitely not interested in after-the-fact highlight videos...yet can't think of other solutions. livestreaming could help build some interest, yet i can't see a way it would really be possible.

I'm curious how streamable CF will be, and wonder what folks who have played these sorts of games think about some potential problem areas... The concern is this: the people I've spoken with so far say, "live-streaming won't work with CF because it would give away your guild's activities/strategies". So, with that issue in mind, what are the best ways for players to create live-streams and you tube channels for their CF game play? It's something I would like to do, but worry that a lot of the different styles of video would run counter to the guild/siege system that is hardwired into the game (i.e. the videos would make a guild too transparent). I know it's possible to make heavily edited highlight videos after a siege or battle, but after-the-fact, edited videos aren't that interesting to me. I'm interested in more immersive, long form videos...but again, worry that too much information would sink a group. So, people who have played these sorts of games: are there ways to make vids that do not give away too much strategy, info? ones that are not heavily edited, highlight based? i also think a strong video/livestreaming culture in the game would help spread awareness about it, but everything i hear indicates that this wouldn't really work given the nature of guild activity.

the trophies worry me...i've seen stuff like that (w/ both trophies and trophy-like gear) bring in the wrong kind of player, and push out those who want a more competitive/sustainable economy, where there is risk associated with any loot. anyway, will be curious to see how it plays out.

i don't disagree that "we don't know", i'm certainly willing to see what happens...but if "trophies" is the answer...that's going to disappoint a whole lot of people. conversely, it will appeal to people averse to true open world, brutal pvp, because they can win stuff...and keep it. in some cases, compromise is the worst thing that can happen to a game. battles, sieges...yet loot that can be taken to special, "eternal kingdom" realms and made safe...that's just compromise. for now, i take CF at face value...they've been promising something different, I believe they are sincere in that goal...but then we hear about permanent characters, yet decaying worlds...and worst of all, "trophies". for me, this just brings up a very legitimate question, which is what Nick is asking, if i understand correctly...based on what we know so far, what does that tell us about the "economy?" an economy where things decay, vanish...yet folks can collect trophies and protect them in certain realms, i.e. "eternal kingdoms"...that will remove the motivation to play, at least for some. for loot to have value? there needs to be risk...it has to be something people can fight for, yet lose if they fail to then protect. if they fight for it, then it just ends with the world...yet people get chuck e. cheese trophies...who cares about that kind of system? collectors will care, people from pve games who are used to winning stuff and keeping it, they'll care...but some of us want risk... in other words, an economy based on vanishing loot, yet token trophies, that's just not worth fighting for in the long run. so, we don't know the specifics...but there are just some concerns about the value of the economy based on what we know so far...and the economy is a big question because it ties into player motivation. i'm all for giving the benefit of the doubt, seeing what happens...but the forum is here, it's a great time to be asking these questions.

so what you're saying is, from what you've seen...there is no economy, other than "fluff"...that's the whole problem. what's the motivation to play if most items either go away or are temporary or can be held safe in hoarding realms? the point is not that we need a stable economy where we can "keep" things...the point is that items should be up for looting, in one form or another. if everything just vanishes at the end of a campaign or can be hidden in safe realms...why do anything? eventually, battles just feel empty, pointless, because you know there will just be a reset...but if there is loot you can win...and then have to fight to keep hold of...that means something. that makes it fun to play and fun to keep playing. the whole point of pvp becomes winning for keeps...and then being forced for defend those winnings...that's interesting, and creates replay value. a system where stuff just goes away, but gosh, there's safe realm where we can look at trophies...who cares? that's a lot of effort for zero return. the economy question really is about replay value.

I don't think people are understanding, because you're asking the right questions, yet people are saying, "but you can win something!!!...the end". that's not really the issue. The issue is: are there areas in the game where items that are won can remain permanently safe? So in the Eternal Kingdoms: if you can win stuff, store it in the EK...it just means that the economy is pointless, because items can be removed from the pvp/looting game play. which then raises the question: what, exactly, is the economy? what value does it have? if items 1. expire after a world erodes and a siege period ends and/or 2. there are safe areas where people can hoard their winnings, safe from pvp/looting...what value does the in-game economy have, because it seems like the "safe" areas (e.g. the Eternal Kingdom) give players a way to avoid being looted...it just seems like a concession to those who want a mild/safe/easy style of game play. the point is not to suggest that the game is going this way...it's just expressing concerns that concepts like the "eternal kingdom" are a way to placate those who want a way to protect their holdings...it's a concession to those who want to avoid a full open world pvp system...when, ideally, there would be no safe havens in the game, at least not in a big picture way. i think, for me at least, the primary question is, would an area like the Eternal Kingdoms involve any element of risk, or would they be safe from risk? these are concerns about the economy, and how that economy can have value in a system where worlds expire, yet players can hoard gear in a safe haven, like EK.

i'm referring to game mechanics, not history. there are a lot of discussions in the book about implementing a specific sort of crafting system, as well as a breakdown of the way open world pvp works in the fictional game. also, after this book came out in 2011, there were discussions online about whether or not this fictional game could actually happen in the real world...those discussions are just word-for-word similar to things that are said here in the forums, in terms of debates about open world pvp, crafting systems, etc...so it's just interesting to see the connections. mostly i was just curious if anyone here had read the book...and if they thought perhaps it had been influenced by shadowbane, or the other way around.

For anyone involved in the game...or any players familiar with Shadowbane: Have any of you read the novel Reamde, by Neal Stephenson? It was released in 2011. The novel features a fictional online game called T'Rain...and the similarities between it and Crowfall are really striking, in a fun way. Makes me wonder if the novel inspired any of the game developers...or, it could go the other way, perhaps Reamde was inspired by Shadowbane. I'm just curious if anyone here has read Reamde, has any thoughts about connections between it and Crowfall, whichever way the inspiration goes. The game in the novel featured an elaborate feudal system...and an incredibly advanced crafting system, which connected directly into the in-game guilds and currency. It seemed to take the bones of previously existing games (like SB) and evolve them a little past what was available in 2011...sort of like Crowfall is doing now, so I couldn't help but wonder about potential connections.

actually, I just noticed...flatley's next comment? will tie him with #7 on the all time commenter list, so I hope he makes it a good one.

good news, mikey: you just made comment #291, which puts you in 8th place for most posts all time! congrats, broseph. in this forum you say you don't like...you've commented more than thousands and thousands of other people. I mean, if you're going to contradict yourself...go big. I like it. Flatley post #300 is just 9 away, I think you'll get there in the next 10 minutes at this rate, lol.

#284 Here's the thing, mikey: right now, in a forum of thousands, you're the #9 top poster. The next person above you is at 290 posts. So, if you contradict yourself just six more times, you'll be tied for 8th place (in a forum you claim to not care about). Don't stop now...dude, six is nothing.

#283 If you tell us how much you don't care about anything here just 17 more times? you'll be at post number 300, lol.

haha. that was your 280th comment. it's too perfect. wait, this was your 281st comment. guy who doesn't care about anything or anyone here: getting closer to the 300 post mark, lol.