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  1. Well, I guess it's time to throw the whole token idea into the dust. As you guys have pointed out, Artcraft have thought about their system thoroughly, and there's no need for an active side to skill training. So, I think it's time for a new proposal: Instead of a token that helps you level up, what about an artifact that gives you a skill as long as you wear it? I've avoided suggesting this until now because this feature would feel a little weird to me, since It's directly ripped from a project I'm working on. While playtesting my project, I noticed low-level characters had a lot of difficulty defending themselves against enemies that were only a level or two higher. To fix this, I introduced an item that would grant people the abilities of a level one user of the respective magic. If you were already level one or higher in that respective magical type, the item would have no further effect. If an item similar to this was included in Crowfall, it would allow players to try out archetypes, without having to commit to them. This would encourage diversity, without punishing it. Without this item, you'd have to invest time and resources into trying out your chosen archetype, and if you find you don't like the archetype you've invested in, then those points are wasted.
  2. Yeah, now that you've removed my rose-tinted glasses, I can see how Dust wasn't the best example. However, this doesn't have much effect on anything I've proposed; my system has almost nothing in common with Dust's. The point you made about the token's tradeability is something I've already addressed, the token's versatility and power can be tweaked so high-level users gain little, or no, benefit from them. Even if the level restriction wasn't put in place, the fact they decrease training times linearly rather than proportionally would mean high-level users require much more to gain the same benefit. How that affects things would probably change with time, at first it would have little effect, due to everyone being the same level. But as time goes on, the supply and demand will shift unpredictably, I would need to know more about the system already designed before I could predict how tokens would affect Crowfall in the long run. The only thing I can say for certain; is the tokens won't cause any sizable power shifts as long as they're balanced against the other resources, and don't have a sizable effect individually. Sure, that would be pretty hard to do, considering the fact you can't accurately put a pricetag on time. (just look at how many times we've fiddled with wage laws in real life.) But since this is a videogame, all Artcraft will really have to do is implement a feature that tracks trade information, and adjust drop rates accordingly. They're probably going to put in place a trade interface, so all they'd need to do is export the information from that page into a file stored on the server. Exporting that kind of information would be useful for other reasons as well. For example, it would help them to track down duplication glitches. Well, that's if there's duplication glitches to track. Most MMOs get one at some point. Actually, something I've just realised is the whole trading thing won't matter much anyway. People will only sell these tokens if they believe the items they'd receive are worth more than the token. In order for a group to obtain them in sizable amounts, they'd either need to spend much more than their worth, or trick new players into practically giving them away. The first practice would make hem broke, and the second one could get them banned. well, unless Artcraft are going to borrow CCP's scamming policy as well. (Artcraft, if you're reading this, please don't do that. The only people it benefits are the scammers.) Overall, I think I've managed to fix the new problems I've been shown. But then again, it's 2:30am right now and I could've just written a page full of gibberish. Either way, I'll check this thread again later, and address any of the other flaws you guys find. I've got one more rewrite up my sleeve before I'm ready to throw away this concept. Edit: Ninja'd. Thank you, I actually completely missed many of the points you've brought up. I still stand by my statement that my idea would improve Crowfall, but that's just because I made my idea, and I wouldn't suggest something I didn't think would improve the game I'm trying to change. Also, I'm quite stubborn, and this hole I'm digging shall be my fortress. I think my wanting to change Artcraft's currently proposed system simply comes from my dislike of passive training systems. I much prefer currency-based trade off systems, like those found in Dark Souls and FTL, over systems with comparatively little player input. I think it might be time for the rewrite, I'll wait for a few more posts before I write it, though.
  3. Okay, now that I'm significantly more awake, I think I agree with you guys that Skill Tokens (or God's Favour, thank you) would not be a cure-all for the currently proposed system's flaws. but if that is truly the case, then all I've done is waste everyone's time with a nonsensical idea. However, with a bit more tweaking, I think my idea could be made into something useful; so I'm going to see if I can salvage it before throwing it completely into the dust. If we are going to fix my system, I think the first point we'll have to look at is acquisition. Currently, I've been very vague about how I wanted these items to be obtained, I hadn't actually put much thought into this side of things when I wrote the original post. The drop system I've devised in the mean time should fix some of the flaws in my system, fixing the flaws in my drop system will come later. Tokens will be split into different categories, each corresponding to a different discipline. However, each type will only drop when doing activities of a different discipline, and no two disciplies will ever yeild drops that are directly exchangeable. For example, harvesting would produce fighting tokens, fightlng would produce exploring tokens, and exploring would produce harvesting tokens. This would make aquiring tokens for your main discipline difficult, but make branching out easier, and less costly. Sure, this may seem to go against the point I was making in the original post, but please take into consideration the fact that diversifying is the cause of the problem I'm trying to fix. I know not everyone sees it as a problem, but I see it as punishing people with a scar that never truly fades, rather than a wound that can be healed with time. To fix my system completely, aquisition isn't the only thing that needs changing. The second point I'd like to look at is versitility, and how altering it even a little could change the very function of the tokens. I think I didn't make myself clear on how I'd approach this in the original post, I wrote about how versitility could affect value and drop rates, but not leveling itself. If every token could be applied to an entire discipline, then they would be far too exploitable. Limiting tokens to use with individual skills (or maybe individual levels within those skills), would make them much more suited for Crowfall, but still allow them to retain their value. Restricting these further, so only tokens for entry level skills would drop, would turn them into a useful kickstarting tool. But I guess their value would drop among higher level players. However, that might be a good thing in the end: One of the main flaws in Eve is the fact that new players have absoloutely no way to compete with players who've been around for a while. even if all the other flaws i've mentioned are things that don't need fixing, I think we all can agree that this one is something that needs a bit of work. I'd love to hear your feedback on these changes, I might need to do further tweaking before the token system is of any use.
  4. Looking at the leveling system you've designed for Crowfall, I can see a lot of influence from Eve Online. For the most part, this is a good thing; Eve's system would fit well in a game like Crowfall, and offers a large amount of flexibility in how you can approach it. But while Crowfall would definitely benefit from this system's strengths, I fear it would also fall victim to the system's flaws. Once a user has chosen a specific path, it's costly for them to divert from it. Every second spent leveling a different skill set means they're one step behind their competition. Deciding to be half miner, half fighter, means there are people better than you in both categories. There's no way you can catch up unless they stop playing, or choose to diversify themselves. As far as I know, CCP never tried to fix this flaw in Eve. It would change status quo considerably, and take too much time and effort to put in place. Instead, they decided to impart their solution in Eve's bastard son: Dust 514. In Dust, players not only gained skillpoints over time, they also earned them for fighting in battle. There was a weekly soft cap, but points could still be earned after that. Although, at a significantly lower rate. This addition to the system went a long way towards fixing the flaws apparent in Eve. Players who wanted to diversify could simply spend a bit more time playing to make up the difference, rather than stay forever behind the competition. Sure, this didn't fix the problem completely; a lot of people just used these extra points to specialize faster. But It definitely mitigated the problem. Now, how do we use what we've learned here to make Crowfall better? Dust's system wouldn't work at all if directly ported to Crowfall, so instead of hammering that peg into the hole, we'll have to make a different one. So I propose a little tweak of my own, I call them: Skill Tokens Okay, the name could use some work, but that doesn't mean the system is bad, it just means It's almost 4am and I probably should've slept before writing this. the system is simple; every so often you'll get a Skill Token as a drop for doing something that produces drops. These tokens can either be traded amongst players, or cashed in to shorten the time to train a skill a little. They would be pretty rare, I'd say a good approximate amount of time to find one would be; six times the amount of time you'd chip off its respective skill. They would also be limited to specific skills or skilltrees. A Token for mining can't be spent on fighting, and vice versa. You could also use this to give them a second kind of value; both versatility and time saved could contribute to their rarity. This tweak to the current system could possibly fix its flaws for good. However, I'm not much of a game designer, I've never made a game using code and pixels, only pen and paper. So I have truly no idea if this would actually fix anything. Feel free to leave feedback and suggestions below, I'll arise at the crack of noon to review my work, and answer any questions that have been asked.
  5. Have you sent an Email to the devs? They probably don't have much time on their hands, but I'm sure at least one of them will be up for an afternoon of fanfic reading. If all else fails, we can always put it up to a vote. Edit: This post may be a little irrelevant... I somehow completely didn't notice the forth page in this topic.
  6. Thank you, I'll probably have the story written by the end of next week.
  7. Deloria, would you consider Hero a god? He's in the pantheon, but it pretty clearly states he's just a man with a curse. I've got a pretty good head-draft planned out, just thought I should ask before writing it down.
  8. Achiever: 13% Explorer: 87% Griefer: 40% Socializer: 60% Makes sense to me, I often just roam around MMO worlds chatting to people.
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