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KohrAh

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About KohrAh

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  1. After today's QA it's time to swing back to this discussion. Some of my concerns have been put to rest. Mainly because things aren't changing as much as the Exploring The Crypt article suggested. They basically just caused confusion by saying that vessels once bound to your account are characters. Meanwhile in practice no they really aren't. Your skills are on the crow. Other people see the crow name, not the vessel name. You name the vessel when you use it the first time, but that's only for your reference. Vessels aren't permanent and will have some form of decay. What we're looking at now is basically the exact same system as before except with limited vessel slots (I refuse to call them characters when they don't function as characters at all). Which I'm still not a fan of vessel slots as they discourage testing out different builds.
  2. As others have already stated, the new player experience isn't developed yet. This is because it adds extra work to build a new player experience and then have to keep changing as the game itself changes. Some things they have planned that once it comes time to develop those pieces the specifics change, and thus the intro do them would need to change as well. On the passive training system. You're asking for skills to train faster but you should be aware we're already getting skill training that is 10 times faster than what it will be when the game launches. There will also be periodic skill wipes during testing, with one right before launch. That being said once the game launches there won't be any further skill wipes. The passive skills system is designed for long term progression.
  3. Sieging and scouting seem likely. Animal husbandry could be a later on thing once pack animals are in the game.
  4. So after a few days of thought, and watching Blair briefly talk about necromancy on the live stream my perspective MAY have changed slightly. The article made it seem like this move to vessels as characters made vessels fairly permanent. The way Blair spoke of them sounded like they're still very temporary. The lack of details here makes it hard to tell what's what and how big of in impact this change will have on what we were previously expecting. That being said the fine details need to be discussed, as we've been doing here, before anything is set in stone because of how important this system is to the game as a whole. So going with the assumption that how I'm interpreting Blair speaking on the subject as correct (vessels innately temporary) I'll list out what I feel are important factors to make this system work. Don't make vessels characters. On the surface it may seem familiar to newcomers, but on the whole it makes it more complicated with your skills tied to the crow. Once the game loop is more in place and new player experience is starting to be addressed people who come into the game will have some level of guidance and it won't be as confusing as they currently think it is. Also making them characters doesn't make it any less creepy as then it's basically characters constantly possessed by demons and not actually being that character anyway. It's still the crow you're playing. You can have players start new at the vessel creation screen without making vessels characters. It's just a creating initial vessel screen. Then for situations where you're joining a new campaign have a button to switch to vessel import if desired. You can still make a vessel bind to a single player one first use without making them into characters. There is a lot of benefit to having a single character name across all of your vessels. Especially in a game like this. For many of the same reasons Shadowbane moved to all characters automatically belonging to the same guild. Also, I've already seen confusion caused in fights when someone calls out for heals but they're on their second account with a different name. For the love of god don't do character slots. It's incredibly limiting to the versatility of the vessel system. I know it makes for easier UI choices, but you could easily have a choose server then get a list of vessels currently stored in crypts. You could even have most recent vessels displayed in the slots like in the article, but limiting to a certain number of slots adds nothing to the experience and has the potential to take away a lot. (see my previous post in this thread) To some the whether or not vessels being called characters or not once used may seem like an insignificant factor, but the distinction matters. On the whole having the crow spirit, and your skill training tied to the crow, and then separate characters with their own names is making the system more convoluted. It makes things less clear, not more. I think the first thing we need from ACE is some clarity on what kind of longevity they're looking to get out of a vessel. We can get to specifics of any potential decay later. From what I've seen it seems that everyone that's happy about the the idea of vessels becoming characters thinks this means that character/vessel is going to be there for the long haul and they'll be using the same one two years down the line. Which if they're wrong then they're not really getting what they want from this change and they aren't going to be any happier than if you do what I listed above. Some people just don't like the idea of the vessel system at all and want the whole thing gone. Modifying the system to make it seem more familiar to them while largely leaving it in place isn't really going to appease them, and will negatively impact the vessel system itself. Making the promise of characters, but not making them permanent is likely going to piss some people off. Making vessels turn into permanent characters is going to negatively impact necromancy and the player economy on the whole. Just stick to them being vessels, with your crow as the character. Once the game comes together and the details of new player experience are better ironed out most of the people that don't get it will. Those who do get it and still hate it aren't going to be truly happy with anything but a complete neutering or removal of the vessel system itself. I think I can confidently most of us love the idea of the vessel system and wouldn't be happy with it becoming irrelevant.
  5. Since you can't train more than a single combat tree, anyone with VIP is going to have some harvesting or crafting skills. Even if you play a single race/class combo there is still going to be uses for different vessels with different stats and rune setups. Say you have skinning trained. You'll want a vessel with relevant runes. Maybe even though you're not trained in mining (with the aid of potions and good tools) you'll have vessel with the foreman rune to help on motherloads. Perhaps you want another setup for when you're out guarding gatherers. Now to your actual combat vessels you may want several or different situations. The setup you want for roaming in a single group may not be the same as when it's larger guild vs guild battles. Perhaps you're a confessor but sometimes you want runes with utility to them (such as heal debuffs) instead of your usual DPS. How many slots is that? How many variants did I not think of? How about testing new builds of this very versatile system without having to delete vessels you still have use for? (this one factor is enough for me to be adamantly against character slots) Then on top of all that, most people aren't going to go with a single race/class combo.
  6. Campaigns will be the majority of the game, they are not persistent. The crow is not your character now, but with the vessel system before this change yes it most certainly was. That might not have been the case in 2015 but it was most definitely the case with the vessel system before now. That's why it made sense that your training remained the same when your crow inhabited different bodies. Just like in the show Altered Carbon when someone transfers their consciousness to a different body it's not a different person in that other body, it is that one person jumping into a different body (or sleeve as they call it in the show). The first thing you need to realize is that your one perspective isn't the only one. Sure some people may simply not like the vessel system and that's all there is to it. But there are many people who just never had a chance to experience it to fully understand it. That's not saying they are too stupid to understand it, or are stupid in any way. That's saying that is saying that they don't yet have the perspective to see what it's really about. When something is completely new and different it's quite possible to not really get it based off just an explanation. Just like in the 90's when the internet was new and most people had heard of it but many really had not understanding of what it was. Many of those people didn't get it at all from any way you tried to explain it, and it wasn't until they actually used it that they understood. That wasn't because they were stupid, but because the entire concept was completely new and alien to them.
  7. I think you just demonstrated that you don't get it. Vessels were not alts. Before this change it was a single character, your crow. Vessels while being bodies were mere equipment, the same as armor and weapons. You says you don't want to be a formless spirit crow, but that's always been the concept and it isn't fully going away. You say leave the disposable vehicles for Eve but Crowfall is basically Eve made into a fantasy game with the addition of campaigns. "Persistent fantasy mmorpgs should have persistent characters". The crow is persistent. Crowfall isn't persistent as the main content is campaigns. It is by design not persistent. Or more accurately a mix of persistence and non-persistence. Also saying it "should" be one way is silly. You hated the idea, but I on the other hand felt the vessel system (and how it tied into other systems) as it was before this change was the singularly best feature of Crowfall. If you want a singular character to play for years to come (without accepting the crow as your singular character) there are dozens of MMO's that do that. One of the things that has so many of us excited about Crowfall is that they aren't doing what everyone else is doing.
  8. You kept saying that you "get it" on it being a pre-alpha, but no you don't. You point out all the things the game doesn't have yet and they say just call it beta. It's not called beta because the game doesn't have those things yet. This isn't like Steam early access where a game should have the core system in place and you get to experience the refinement. Pre-alpha means that the core systems are still being developed and aren't in at all. Once the core systems are all in the game at some level, the game will likely go from pre-alpha to alpha. At that point the systems and their interaction will be refined. Later on in the alpha stage when more aspects are considered nailed down and not changing they'll start implementing some more quality of life features for new players. You have to have the core down before you can really put much effort into the new player experience so you're not doing double work on changing new player experience to match changes to different aspects of the game. Once the game is mostly developed and gone through several passes of refinement, then the game will enter beta. Beta means the game is mostly done and is for bug fixes and balancing. From your post it was clear that you were looking for a beta and this game is not there yet. You were unhappy about starting with a new vessel on different worlds, how are you going to react when they wipe skills? That's going to happen at least several more times before soft launch, and then definitely one last time at soft launch. My advice to you is to delete the game and come back when they announce beta. Also, why in the world would you run a file from within a zip file? Zip files are for bundling files together and compressing them for the purposes for transferring them. You need to unzip the installer to a Crowfall folder somewhere, like you would need to do with any other program that comes in a zip file.
  9. Honestly I think everyone who doesn't get it yet, like yourself, just hasn't had a chance to see it really in action. Up until this announcement it's been that your crow is the character, and vessels are just bodies that your spirit/character inhabits. As to crafting stations, currently in the campaign worlds you need to travel to keeps that your faction owns. The keeps are also one of the locations to gather higher level resources.
  10. One thing that's been running through my head is this notion of getting people more attached to their vessel by making them characters. The positive responses to this aspect seem to come from people who didn't really get the vessel system. Time and time again on a variety of systems the devs/designers have told us how we don't have all the pieces yet, basically that we don't get it yet. Many times I've agreed with that response and have kept an open mind for when we do have the big picture. This really seems like it should have been the response people who didn't quite get the vessel system should have gotten. The Crowfall vessel system is basically the Eve Online ship system. Anyone who has played Eve knows that the stated concern is non-issue. Some people don't get it yet, but that's not a problem with the vessel system itself, it's just that they don't yet get it. The vessel system itself was chosen to solve issues, it adds a lot of cohesion to the game systems wise and thematically. Making vessels into characters is a counter to that. It's loss of cohesion. And as I have stated before, the specifics of making vessels into characters but still trying to preserve the vessel system work against the stated goals of having characters to begin with. I have a feeling that putting this in game as stated, that the people happy with the characters idea are going to be frustrated with how they will need to have some level of limited longevity. They're then going to push back against the vessel system as a whole and any notion of limiting vessel imports to campaign. At that point it's not as simply as limiting a vessel, you're now preventing them from bringing in their character. This will be especially problematic for those who like the change because they want to play a single character. They really should have given people the chance to experience the vessel system before trying to cater to a group of people who just didn't get it yet. Even after this announcement that's still the right course of action in my eyes. Steps I think they should take: Introduce crypts as the location for switching vessels (maybe with some form of vessel only storage to limit how much you're walking around with vessels in your inventory). Enable vessel switching at crypts. Let people play test this system for a while and get feedback (as opposed to trying to address a perceived issue before finding out if it's actually an issue). Sort out specifics of whether crypts are linked as a global storage or if they're local and you only have access to vessels that are locally stored in that crypt. Perhaps even having different options on this factor for different campaign types. The full game loop not being online yet some people just haven't seen what it's like for your crow to be your character and vessels just being bodies you inhabit. And then for people who haven't played and don't get it, just tell them to watch Altered Carbon on Netflix and think of swapping vessels like sleeving in that show.
  11. When I first read about Crowfall the vessel system was one of the most interesting parts of the core design. Taking one of the core systems of Eve Online and pairing it with the campaigns really solves some of the core issues with the structure of modern MMO's, especially PvP based games. This is the first time there's been a big announcement on a system change that didn't excite me. I'm actually a bit concerned. There are changes here that go counter to the core of the systems they're changing. It's taking a system that while requiring some explanation to a new player was streamlined and interesting, and changing that system into something more complex and slightly harder to describe to someone new. To maintain the vessel system and implement this new change of vessels becoming characters you're going to have to make design choices that give vessels/characters some sort of shelf life, which is counter to the suggestion that making them characters adds immersion. If you're going to limit certain campaigns on what vessels people can bring in people are going to end up in situations where they need to delete a character. You've now given someone a more of a reason to get attached to the vessel, but also required them to potentially lose it. At some point someone is going to build up a collection of vessels/characters that they don't want to delete, and they will now be limited on what campaigns they can join by this factor. The rest of my thoughts are a bit jumbled and it could take me a couple hours to sort them into a coherent post, which would end up being fairly long anyway. So here's a bulleted list. Crypts! Some people seem surprised, this just seemed obvious to me. Why bother tying skills to the crow if vessels are now essentially characters? The notion that people need to be attached to their vessels is odd. Before this change my crow was my character. Nobody in Eve Online worries about whether they're attached to their battleship. Nor are they overly upset when they lose said ship in combat. If my crow is no longer my character, what is the crow? Again, why are skills tied to the crow? Are crows gone? If no crows why do my new characters have the training of the previous characters? Once people have a collection of established characters necromancy becomes must less worthwhile. Time to abandon a year of training! Takes a big chunk of potential out of the player economy, not just on the necromancy side but on the rune side as well. Do you try and solve this by maintaining durability on vessels? Well that works against making them characters. Character limits... Now I'm much less likely to have different vessels for a given class based on use/need. Leaving me with less option for theory crafting and testing different combinations. Hooray for a hit against another great aspect of the game. Character selection screen instead of lobby?! Semantics. A character selection screen is a lobby. There are ways to get a character selection UI without changing vessels into characters. Vessels in part were a solutions to the concept of characters and character slots. A very elegant solutions. Now they're being complicated by adding in the problem they fixed. Vessels now being temporary items that later become characters seem like it's just complicating things. It seems like you're trying to go to a characters system and bandaid on the necromancy/vessel system that makes less sense in the new context of characters. Thematically as well, the two concepts don't mesh well together. I very strongly feel that making vessels into characters is not the way to go. You could easily get a character selection like UI in the lobby (it's still a lobby even if you want to suggest it's not) by simply having crypts not only be where you change vessels, but a place where you can store them. If a vessel is stored in a crypt it becomes one that you can log directly into. You could still put limits on how many vessels are stored in a given crypt, or on a given server. Maybe some campaigns crypts are linked, while others they separate like the local banks currently. For separate crypts you could have them all accessible from the beachhead crypt like you can do with local banks EK's crypts could all be tied together and vessel imports to campaign worlds you select from available vessels in the joint EK crypt. There are ways to address some of the stated issues without muddying the waters about what is and what is not a character.
  12. I love the role the Balance faction takes in this ruleset; keeping the other two faction in check.
  13. KohrAh

    Shade

    That would almost be the same as a shade mage assassin. Which has me thinking about promotion classes and the possibility (if they're still in the plan) of a promotion class being viable for more than on base class.
  14. KohrAh

    Shade

    This seems like an obvious choice for a new race post launch. Shades and nephilim were my favorite of the Shadowbane races. I don't think we'll ever see a nephilim or aracoix equivalent with the devs indicating that don't want to do true flight. I do hope we get to see a doomsayer like class at some point though.
  15. How does the change from archetypes to race and class combinations effect promotion classes?
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