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  1. As to the mobility, it's only 1 option though, I think the utility of a shield spam that has on hit heal is something in and of itself worth exploring. To answer 7 more directly, it's in relation to the point about PvP and PvE dps roles being different from each other. I am not by any means saying that another class wont push more numbers. Even with the eventual fixes to damage types, and likely lowering costs for attacks/casts etc, the dps cleric will never be tuned to out perform the target dummy numbers of other classes, it's just not in the design of it. However, other dps classes dont have on hit ranged, and shield access... both of which are boosted for cleric. The choice of dps cleric tree is not about maxing the numbers of output, it's about leveraging that on hit x 3 HIGH uptime, mana regenning, ulti. I dunno, I think people see DPS CLERIC and assume it needs to kill target dummies... perhaps it's better to look at it as Radical and NOT as DPS, because it seems to make people think that the high numbers is the only metric. But that's not how pvp works. You kind of pointed that fact out tho in your description of point 1.
  2. 1. it's 30 seconds. Last I looked anyway, I'll have to confirm. It is also recastable with in 10 seconds of it going down last time I was on one, meaning that it has an ~75% uptime if you keep yourself ticking over. 2. I haven't seen any equipable last hit disciplines not actually work, I'll have to confirm however to cut some of the options out if that's true. 3. I forgot about that tbh. Thanks. 4. It appears to, I'll confirm however. 5. It's not about having the CC last exactly, it's about breaking the stam/retaliate break point, so given that most people don't use stun, and rely on others, if your little group can shread the retaliate capacity of a core group at the front of the enemy formation it should be valid. The stuns are on hit effects that DO appear to land more frequently with increased control power. They proc very often. Most often 2 stuns per 3 hit chain when given 3 targets. 6. That appears to be using escape artist and rolling off the inherently high crit of the duelist? If so, the dps cleric can do this, assuming 4 is true. (I'm not 100% on equipable status for cleric actually, I'll have to confirm. But perhaps it's not using that? 7. As to the "strongest dps disciplines" If you're simply looking to maximize DPS NUMBERS, that's true, but dps in pve is a race, dps in pvp is a competition. The difference being, one is a simple stat climb, the other is about reliable output vs damage taken, vs sabotage style skills. The dps with the highest number on a target dummy isn't usually the best PvP dps in practicality, because they tend to lack (not always in every game tho) the capacity to sabotage/debuff/burst etc with out falling prey to those exact things. Regardless, there's always room for SOME race dps style assassination players, but a core backbone of competative dps classes tends to fair better in any comparative match ups. ie: +- 50% numbers.IMHO anyway, with experience across a very wide range of pvp centric games. 8. 100%, some classes will be happy at 1 stat cap, some are going to really outshine them when vessel quality and gear is standard epic gold tho, where they can have a 2nd stat in play. When it comes to low grade vessels, there's specific classes that won't function at all really due to other classes having all important base metrics housed under a single stat, while they're missing chunks of dps due to the split.
  3. @Doc, I'm not demanding that the thread is answered in a particular way, only that it's not answered in a totally off topic way. That's called DERAILING. And it's considered poor form in ANY community. @Ape. So the interesting thing about dps cleric is that it's Ulti is on half cost, and has a very strong up time. Because it affects basic attack as a mechanic in a meaningful way, it integrates with MANY minor disciplines in meaningful ways. There are a lot of on last hit apply effect's available there. It also increases the blind rate significantly from the associated synergy skill, but you won't see that being a big effect with out combat training due to low crit chance, that's however changed partially by buff rotation, as the recast from multiple clerics will ramp crit for the whole team up... 3 clerics in group will maintain a solid crit chain for this for 15-20 seconds as an example. As to the crit chain, there are other classes that can take advantage of having a resulting ridiculous crit rate for that initial engagement phase. If they also take advantage of the on last hit minor discipline effects, there's potential in that. Yet to be explored however. So in essence, with 2 DPS clerics, and a heal cleric, you've got double blinds firing with a 3rd less meaningful one, high on hit stuns going into a grouping, along with relatively condensed damage output, though not huge. Adding that flash cast into the 3rd hit on repeat does significant boost tho. I would suggest that 3 DPS clerics increase the blind rate, but the extra on hit effects won't necessarily stack well, and will likely over cast on the same targets primarily. However, you're starting to get to a CC spam rate (Heal cleric should use the dps ulti if you go 3 dps clerics) where it could potentially outpace the Retaliate spam/Stam regen spam, if qued in with a 5th class that's able to find a rotation that includes aoe CC whilst taking advantage of the on hit effects. This is highly questionable though, you're talking about condensing a burst engagement in under 10 seconds that needs to proc off about 20 CC events to overwhelm the stamina/retaliate power, which is essentially 3 basic attack chains from each cleric, aoe snares, and the 5th class member is going to have to do some heavy lifting for THAT to work. Fortunately, whilst that might not work CURRENTLY, it's pretty assured that the retaliate, stam regen rate will be mitigated as the game progresses, as it's almost a meme in how excessive it is. So lets take the CC/stam/retaliate factor out of it for now and push back to 2 DPS cleric and a Heal cleric, all running DPS Ulti. That's a wide spread of on hit effects, some passive almost inconsequential stuns (though breaking attack chains for some classes can be nice if you're not wasting your own cast cycles to interrupt theirs), Those on hit effects can pair with something like templar aura on hit heals, or simply stack effects like bleed and poisons etc for other classes. It's at a point at THAT point where you CAN theory craft it, but when the test server allows for actual free vessels and free disciplines, it's best to USE it. That moment has passed right now, but it'll come again. As to how to play the situation, there's a lot of options there, in that 2 dps + 1 heal cleric have 3 shields that heal, and you can body block engage for your 2 other class members. Or you can void off the shields entirely and go for a dash and dump approach. It's really up to what you're able to think of, and what the fight sitaution is, what works in seiges isn't what works in skirmishes etc. I understand that mostly ONLY seige combat exists right now, but that's not what we're going to be dealing with by release. As to the dps cleric being immobile, I'm curious as to what the exact meaning of that is. It has VERY few animation locks, most things can be done on the move. If it's meant that it's immobile because of shield, well shielding is optional, so there's choices to be made there. As a complete side note, the range of Majors they can take is very different than other dps classes, and while a white vessel can not multi spec, a gold with combat training is vastly more capable. I find that people look at white vessels and limit them selves to 1 stat cluster, but actual use case for theory craft should call on 2 to 3 stats. Lots of classes have everything they need contained in 1 stat, and perform super well at low quality, other classes "want" more stats and wont perform with out quality vessels/training etc.
  4. ok, 1 question, stop avoiding the points and answer 1 question, cause you're just circumventing my statements and pushing yours continually. How many clerics have you had in a single group for actual testing purposes where 1 or more where DPS clerics. And a bonus round. Did you play with discipline set ups and additional class combo's in relation to non cleric positions that could potentially synergise with this? You claim you've tested it, fine... but what quality of test HAVE you REALLY done? Also as to your discord comment of "you're custarded"... I'm sorry, but you're intellectually disingenuous in the extreme. Pander to your own ego so more tho if you need to. Avoid my statements and push your opinions more so if you need to. Heads up tho. Doing something for a LONG time doesn't make you qualified, not if you just do the same thing and don't retest your assumptions. There's a difference between learning for a long time, and repeating for a long time. GG dude, after your discord statements, you can do you at this point.
  5. I'm happy to discuss it, but stop claiming you've tested it. You have NOT tested a group of them, it's absolutely obvious from your statements that this is the case. Look, if you want to debate theory crafting that's 100% fine, but that's NOT what the OP of this tread called for in the slightest. Is it? I asked for people interested, and if you're not interested, then this isn't the thread for you? Stop derailing it. You're essentially saying "you want to test a group dynamic, and we have tested the class singular dynamic, and your group dynamic wont work. These are the issues with the class in singular, A, B, C, D etc, and it's a broken mess... and there's no way around it that we can see, so we don't want to look." Now that's fine, but is that what I started this thread for? Did I ask "who doesn't want to TEST it, and just talk about it for a while instead?... I don't think so. Come on now. If you aren't interested in the OP question why are you answering a DIFFERENT question? Find another thread, and let this be for people who REALISE this is the perfect time to HANDS ON TEST things. Free materials. Free time as nothing is happening in the game. The only requirement to take part in what I'm asking is willingness to spend time, the capacity to craft with the free materials, and a willingness to say good bye to the idea if/when it doesn't work. You're overly invested in complaining about what you already think about it, based on your experiences with it. Instead of being open to letting OTHER people whom are interested in seeing it, seeing it. Or you know, derail the initial thread's point even further. I can't stop you obviously.
  6. I'm not frustrated with the conversation, only the inconsistency of it. It won't work "we have tested it"... but you haven't have you? You're saying there aren't enough dps cleric to run a group.... what you're saying is you've tested ONE dps cleric... and haven't bothered to test group synergies off it. I go appreicate the theory craft suggestion of a druid thou, but I feel you're focusing the mana issue FAR too much. If you HAD of tested multi clerics, you wouldn't need to "doubt it" anymore, you'd see the mana is not an issue. Dps cleric ultimate restores enough mana to keep it going with the rotation of buffs with just 2 clerics. Also, thew half giant thing isn't actually useful, it is for pve not pvp. You're not getting hit for >200 damage in PvP... you're far better off with human, and use an appropriate discipine combo. There's just this totally unecessary fixation on the mana issue tho... I can't say it again, it's not an issue.
  7. You're assuming a single state of combat. I assume you're referencing Siege, Again with the mana, it's ZERO issue with 2 clerics, ABSOLUTELY NOT AN ISSUE with more. Let that point go. Yeah, it's meant to be holy damage last I heard, the game has lots of bugs on MANY classes especially in the final branches. Holy symbol is VERY low damage, not worth the time to cast it USUALLY. There are plenty of disciplines that pair EXCEPTIONALLY well with the dps ulti. Depending on what style of combat you want to engage in. Regardless, why are you still harping on about it not working? If you don't WANT to test, then read the OP, this threads not for THAT discussion. It's not about if it's a good idea, it's about if you want to test it. Why not post all this stuff in the appropriate thread? I hear what you're saying, I disagree on some points, not all, but you're having a discussion I didn't invite here, nor want it to continue here. It's completely Off Topic for the thread.
  8. it only takes 1 heal cleric and 1 dps cleric to stop the mana issue, and yes, it's bad that it punishes dps cleric at all, but that's not what I was talking about to begin with at all. I'm not here to FIX the game, I'm asking a simple question. Who is interested in hands on trying these things. If you're not interested in trying it, that's all good, just not the post for you? Maybe the ones in feedback sections are more appropriate to those comments? If you're interested in playing with combo's in the current state of the game, especially with the wipe on it's way, this is the thread.
  9. mana isn't an issue in a priest cluster due to inspire rotation. it's not an issue with 2, it's certainly not an issue with 3+ :p I 100% agree that dps cleric as a class in singular is poorly made socks, but in a group, the things that make it bad, sort of evaporate (theoretically) and the things that make it interesting, actually make it GOOD (theoretically).
  10. Tight synergistic core groups will always out perform clusters of well performing individuals. I'm not saying DPS cleric belongs in that statement lol, but the statement is pretty much true as a general statement. I'm looking to hands on explore some of the stuff that seems useless in solo respects, but definitely has potential to be force multipliers. Still keen to talk to anyone willing to put time in, I mean it's alpha, what else are you testing out? :p
  11. I've been looking over a few classes and I think there's something about DPS cleric that contains some inherent force multipliers, unfortunately it appears it almost requires higher teir vessels to work, AND combat training to really make it click together. I'm hoping to find 4-9 other players from any guilds (as long as we're able to get a same faction selection) who are willing to run a high level dps cleric in a group. Again, you don't have to be in a guild, but if you're able to group up to make a 5 man group of leveled, geared, skilled dps clerics, and WANT to do it, hit me up. If you think it's a stupid idea, your opinion has been noted. No need to waste the time explaining it 😉 If you're curious enough to trial it for real, leave a message, or ping me your discord add Thanks. P.S. The things I'm seeing that work together don't really start to take effect with less than 3 together, and they don't mean much at that point either, I'm REALLY looking to get at least 5 players to form a full team. Preferably with an extra or two to make sure we can fill ranks for the seige tests.
  12. As a new player the account skills level segment of the game seems to be quite linear in the amount of time to gain, with a lot of things not really having actual effect until much later when you start getting multiple systems triggering at the same time. There also seems to be a little bit of confusion on the primary/secondary track, in that you can get things from all three, you're just limited to skilling 2 at a time. I have a pretty decent idea, which I feel like drawing up, that can achieve the same result that is happening here, but create more "intermediate goals", and points of meaningful progression. If I actually draw it up, essentially a mock up of how I think the level system should work, do CrowFall designers etc actually look at these forums? I don't mean do they scour every thread, but do they at least look at the ones that get a lot of activity etc?
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