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APE last won the day on August 19 2016

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  1. Combat

    Seems legit.
  2. Get rid of the passive skill system.

    I'd say the details have altered quite a bit and or weren't clear from the start to use a reference to what it was "supposed to be." Take a look at the Kickstarter and what we have today or that is still planned that we know of. Not exactly the same pitch. While they mentioned progression and permanence briefly, they don't go into great detail as to what it means. Technically we could simply keep the same Name/Crow and EK had still have progression/permanence. Having a stat progression system isn't needed for the rest to work. While I agree plenty are bored with the PVE grind, I'd say your view of what a MMO is must be rather limited if one specific feature is required to make it so. I didn't know that MMO stood for "Must have vertical stat progression." CF has plenty going for it that makes it more MMO than Battleground that this particular system isn't needed. Regardless, I'd still like to see training reset or played with on a per-CW basis if there are fans of it. This is what ACE said they would do. Try different rulesets if people had interest. I do enjoy MMOs and PVP, but more importantly, I enjoy effort/skill based products that require me to put in what I can to face challenges. CF has this to spare. The passive system isn't even on the list with how boring and effortless it is. I'd rather not have any advantage over another simply because I started earlier and didn't do anything to earn it. There is no risk, only reward for passive training. Little consequence and really only the choice of going down few paths and being efficient or multiple and being not. Do you personally believe that removing the system would make CF a MOBA and or less of a great game overall? Regardless if it is still a MMO or whatever. How about having optional CW with "fun" versions of the system that people actually find interest in and not "well it's there so whatever" stance? I'd still like the passive system to have optional versions on optional CWs. No passive system at all (probably won't work with certain paths have unlocks). Reset with faster training. Reset with X training given on the front end so we actually have to make a choice with consequences. Etc. You know, options that ACE has said they are willing to try, assuming they aren't crazy resource intensive. None of this changes the overall game or requires everyone to play one way or another. Those that want to have the advantage of clicking a node and waiting for time to pass, have had it. To me this is the opposite of a challenging experience with risk/reward or choices that matter. I do not want an active system as I too am an adult with a busy life, that doesn't need another chore in my hobby. Why I don't like the Sacrifice system. Another attempt to add in time sink grinds just because....people NEED it.... I don't. If I can't play for a week/month, so be it. I'll be behind, but will hop in a CW that hopefully isn't above my status. No need for grinding of any kind or passive hand outs.
  3. Get rid of the passive skill system.

    100% agree with what you were going on about. This part being the nail. Even those that say they need/want permanence don't seem to view passive training as "fun." If someone does truly find the system "fun," so be it, but their bar must be rather low.
  4. Get rid of the passive skill system.

    For me, the marketing and lore make little sense on top of how it works in game. Eternal Heroes - We are eternal... characters die, respawn, die again, move from CW to CW to EK to EK, etc. Easy. Dying Worlds - They go poof, easy. The knowledge we learn is always with us and growing and whatever rewards we bring out of CW stay with us. There is permanence or at least long term retention. When it comes to passive training, how does a spirit/ghost crow thingy get stronger and or the bodies it inhabits? This to me makes little sense. I get Vessels themselves having stats and now being able to level them up through sacrifice, but is one ghosty crow stronger than another ghosty crow? To me that is the silly part. With a game all about loss (dying worlds, decay of gear, looting gear/resources, limited export of efforts, vessel system) having a skill/effort less system in the background literally not "in-game" but rather a window/UI, makes little sense. No risk/reward no real choice/consequence. Just pick a path and go down it over time, end up like 99% of others that do the same. Being innovative would of been getting away from pointless vertical stat stacking, not "copying" another very different game's model that basically does the same thing as leveling. Vertical stat stacking makes up a large portion of passive training and it is 100% not needed for CF to work. Beyond upsetting those that need trivial number increases or want to have advantage just because they've played longer, it provides almost nothing. Where it does matter is unlocks/options which only a few paths have which is a separate issue I have that could likely of been done in-game more creatively. Something with risk/reward, effort, and actually playing in-game mattering. Not an out of game UI/window system tied to time. I have no problem with passive training if done creatively/well, but to me, ACE's version is very lackluster and if anything makes more issues for new players and limits choices for older ones. It's funny "old school gamers" talk about how bad modern games are with instant gratification, but to me, the need of pointless permanence just for the sake of it is the other side of it. Both have little value in the end. Everyone just wants to feel warm and fuzzy and it costs development a lot of resources.
  5. Slow Beginnings

    Personally find no reward from the current system. While undoubtedly, having done it over and over has killed it for me, even the first time wasn't that thrilling. I get the reasoning and it does help one grasp the basics, but there is no "reward" or "rush" for me. More of a means to an end that I am willing to trudge through to get what I want With little active progression, it's pretty much just do the same thing over and over changing up visuals and numbers a bit without any significant milestones provided. There is a reason most popular games have achievements and "that a boy" systems even if they don't provide anything of substance. Is what it is for such a game, but for those new to the model, might be off putting. We need new blood to keep games going in most cases. Even for MMOs old folks, the survival aspects of having to redo the same very mundane early actions over and over each CW might be too much. Especially for those used to the permanent progression and not having to repeat such things as they are always advancing or eventually reach the top to stay. Maybe if there was another layer to it that someone that has declared to be a fighter could still get even a tiny rush from having to chop down trees again for the umpteenth time.
  6. Consolidate or Remove copy-cat skills.

    That sums up the passive system for me. Unfortunately, unless they have more creative options in mind, I doubt it will change at all or much if it does. It's an attempt to make it look complex, deep, have meaning, whatever. Rather dull and repetitive and with the "super shallow power curve," likely doesn't matter that much anyway. Makes it easier to support as much of it is copy and paste, but on our end, Zzzzzz.
  7. Get rid of the passive skill system.

    In their latest video (and from the start) ACE has labeled CF as a Throne War Simulator that takes elements from multiple genres including MMOs. For me, one of CF's strongest selling points was the "short" campaign experiences with win/lose conditions and potential for various rulesets. All of which is far from being what I assume the common definition of "MMORPG" would be for many. Even in your attempt to make a new label, it's clear that CF =/= MMORPG at least not the traditional version nor does it have or need to include XYZ. I don't believe the passive system should be scrapped or tweaked heavily as at this point they are too invested, however, offering a ruleset that used it differently seems entirely plausible and for me, enjoyable. Be it everyone has only X training points to spend at the start and that's it, sped up training, no VIP, one class/race combo only, and so on. There are countless possibilities that would require little effort on the devs part as it's just turning the "dials" as they call them. That seemed to be their intention all along. No need to redesign the game or any specific system. No clue how difficult it would be to have a CW with an independent training system, even if temporary, but as I mentioned, games have been doing similar or more complex since at least the mid 90s. If I wanted to play a MOBA, I would. If you want permanent characters, could always play WoW or insert any previous MMO... Guessing we are both here because we like what ACE is attempting to do. IMO, passive training in CF is far from innovative. Other games have it and it's basically leveling done without the work. Not very deep or hard to create. Most of CF is inspired or borrowing from previous work, slapping it all together is what is new. Overall I like the concepts, but particular systems could be played with more to increase potential fan base and entertainment for all.
  8. Slow Beginnings

    While "traditional MMOs" (pre-2007?) definitely gave out rewards slower, the initial push was rather fast. Log in - create character - quest/kill - rewards. Level - stats, abilities. Repeat. Even in something like EQ, the early days gave a decent amount of Ding Ding Ding. Despite the overall experience being very slow and drawn out. It needs to be fun from the start. ACE needs to make sure their FAQ/site, tutorials, marketing, and initial in-game experience reflect what the game is about beyond "mash up of XYZ where you do stuff." CF will require a time commitment and doing tedious tasks for those that don't enjoy every aspect. Gatherers are good moment they start. Crafters a bit behind and Combatants further still. Someone that wants to hop in and stab away is going to have some work to do and hopefully that can be presented clearly which they will see/understand or not. Lots is still missing, but the early game in test doesn't seem likely to change greatly. The easier they can make literal day 1, the better. As far as being a "true sandbox" sigh... There is only one true sandbox and I haven't played in one of those since I was probably 5 or so. Let the buzzwords die.
  9. Get rid of the passive skill system.

    Could you elaborate on what you mean by "pretty significant" in comparison to the overall "super shallow power curve?"
  10. Get rid of the passive skill system.

    So... Passive system shouldn't be paid much attention. The stats gained don't really matter. It is significant enough that some would walk away from the game if removed because persistence regardless of significance matters. A per-CW ruleset that allowed fresh characters wouldn't be the end of the game and likely some would enjoy it. CF was sold on the idea of being able to try whatever ruleset if there was interest. MMOs have had multiple servers with multiple characters being managed, stored, deleted, created for 20 years or so. If only there was an "easy" solution...
  11. RNG in this game is horrible

    Has nothing to do with economy or players having to choose a specific path to go down. Personally, I'd like the launch version to be as smooth as possible, not having to fix issues that could have been squashed early on, wasting time that could be spent on substance as you prefer. Tweaking numbers/code is a major part of development pre and post launch. It never ends. Minor to massive issues missed early on can have lasting impact on games. If you believe having a handful of a handful test major aspects of the game, that's fine. To me it seems like a poor way to go about it. New eyes can find issues that old eyes have missed, forgotten about, or become accustomed to. There will be at least a reset at the end if not multiple along the way. What happens now should have zero impact on launch gameplay when it comes to what is trained, crafted, in banks, etc. With RNG specifically, maybe there is some issue in the algorithm that ACE has missed that causes XYZ to provide less than planned results. With few people testing that specific combo or maybe even one person, feedback isn't as much as it could be. What I'm going on about is about testing in general, not just crafting. Maybe some combo of combat/class/race training results in an issue with stats being doubled or whatever. If it takes 5 months to figure that out, how many are going to notice or reach that point to provide feedback. Would be nice to experience a game launch without major flaws that people take advantage of to get ahead. Usually the "fix" just stops others from repeating the same with those that found it first keeping the benefits. This will happen regardless, but limiting it would be nice. Increasing testing/feedback pool would be a good way to help.
  12. Please, no advantage for $$$

    Much is guessing at this point as we don't have a near final model of what will be happening. They seem to be easing up on import/export/embargo type stuff so moving resources in/out of CW to EK might not be terribly difficult or risky for some. Also how they do "beachheads" and "safe" areas in CWs might make for trade areas. No real idea though. While I personally won't drop tons of cash to win a video game, some have no issue doing so, risk and all. Winning in of itself is the reward for many I assume, the virtual goods trading hands and being bought for cash are simply a means. Trusted Traders are also approved to do item for item trading. They could become a sort of "auction house" if they some how have different options than the rest of us. Still don't understand how this might work.
  13. RNG in this game is horrible

    Well that was an interesting rant, I'll give you that. As someone with multiple accounts, choices have less consequence for me, but I get what you are going for. I like many will have my alts training in whatever that folks focusing all their time on will be and we'll be pretty much even in that area... What I was going on about was limiting testing potential. I have no issue with having to pick one (or two with VIP) paths at launch, but in testing, why not increase the number of people providing feedback, finding bugs/exploits/major issues with mechanics, etc. There isn't a "game" yet and certain systems don't really need to be in place yet. If they did a weekend with all paths 50% trained or 100% trained, likely would get a lot more logged in and providing needed testing. Believe it or not, people are still finding out about CF and joining in. Having to wait weeks/months to unlock X just to see it wiped or whatever is likely keeping many from getting to involved yet if ever until it "matters." Current model doesn't take advantage of those that might be avoiding burn out by doing the same early days stuff over and over. Is what it is, but trying to simulate a realistic launch environment in a half done testing one doesn't make the most sense to me.
  14. Please, no advantage for $$$

    Games you've mentioned do offer varying degrees of convenience/advantage through cash. If you see it as "unfair" or not is not up to me. Your initial post said that CF should ONLY offer cosmetics. No advantage or convenience. Show me a game that does that, hopefully something remotely similar to CF. Almost all of these offer very obvious advantage/convenience. While you might be able to earn the same in-game, if the shop offers it, that is a cash short cut and advantage. For the most part, these don't compare to what CF hopefully becomes, but if you are going to list them, might as well point out what they actually offer... GW2 https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gem_Store POE https://www.pathofexile.com/shop/category/account-features ESO? https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/crownstore/category/13 Vindictus? http://vindictus.nexon.net/news/1798/new-outfits-and-items-for-enhancing Wildstar? https://shop.wildstar-online.com/product/signatureMembership Tree of savior? https://treeofsavior.com/page/news/view.php?n=1195 (no clue on this stuff honestly) Secret wold legends? Secret World had a shop, guess new shop is in-game only... Blade and soul? http://www.bladeandsoul.com/en/news/premium-membership/ Tera? https://store.enmasse.com/tera/items/consumables Runescape?https://www.runescape.com/solomons-store GW2 sPVP is lobby/arena PVP in a safe environment with access to everything. This is basically a 2nd game mode. WvWvW more comparable to CF is influenced by levels, gear, training, whatever or at least was when I played it. Shop might not make someone into god mode but doesn't slow anyone down either. What does dropping a sub have to do with a game improving. Devs aren't able to improve a sub based game? Their code doesn't work when $15 is required by customers? You might be missing the bigger picture. I'm anti P2W/advantage/convenience. However, I believe a sub based game could work. Sub required or optional without advantage along with shops without advantage are what I would like. ACE isn't doing that but I'm willing to see how it turns out. IMO, many games have had to change models because they simply weren't worth people's time/money, player habits have changed, market saturated, etc. Anything can work if done well, unfortunately "well" might be out of reach. I wasn't making a straw man. You said you like XYZ games and how they do it, which are F2P/B2P with optional subs and shops. Most providing convenience/advantage that you said CF must not have... I might like the idea of a game being able to run on subs and optional cosmetics, but realize subs are hard to pull off and cosmetics don't really do it by themselves. Advantage/convenience are just too easy for devs/companies to embrace. ESO is a live. I was responding to your hyperbolic view that games like BDO/AA are "dead." They are still running last I checked. Maybe not up to your expectations, but they aren't dead. As your own list points out, games can have convenience/advantage and be very much a live. The view that CF will "die" if it continues as is or whatever is simply your view without any evidence. I don't believe it will excel because of the pay model, but killing it off will take a bit of effort on ACE's part to really not produce something anyone wants to play.
  15. Please, no advantage for $$$

    Despite the pitch forks in the ready, every game listed in this thread and others is likely still around. Maybe not as popular as they might be or could be, but around all the same. Which is why the "if they go P2W the game will die" view doesn't work. We as individuals might see it as dead and move on, others won't. Just sucks having to wait to see which group will be playing and which won't. They could offer a system that other games do where players can earn shop currency or items through in-game means without any trading or potential for abuse through cash involvement. While I do understand that people want to game and things in games, their vanity shouldn't cause the overall competitive nature of a competitive game to be less. There are many options and they chose one that results in more cash for them and more issues for those looking for a non-cash influenced playing field. What about buying X from the store and trading it for Y in-game that can be used in CW? Assuming this will be possible, but don't see anything in black and white stating otherwise. They have mounts, pack animals, relics already which can be used in or impact CW. They could add other things as well obviously. Some of the KS and later rewards provide CW advantages as well. VIP is $15, but is for trade and not the only thing in the store.