APE

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APE last won the day on February 12

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About APE

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  1. Skill Point System Pretty Underwhelming

    If players need mobs to have a reason to pvp, ACE has done something wrong. As I commented above, combat AND exploring/scouting are what I'm looking forward to. Capturing/defending POIs seems like a fairly important duty, outposts should provide even more opportunity for varying team sizes. Defending Strongholds. Attacking strongholds, be it siege, taking down guards, thralls, crafting stations, weakening walls/gates for future assault etc. Hunting down caravans, harvesters, traders/transporters, to disrupt their day, draw out their team and leave their strongholds less defended, or simply to take them down and get what they have. Along with exploring for map making and other hopefully interesting non-combat related roles. All of this would ideally be part of the everyday experience, much is combat related and heavy, but it doesn't need to be stab stab mindlessly 24/7. My concern is we have combat-harvesting-crafting as main "roles" to train. Mob killing to me falls into the more combat heavy side of things. If I choose to train weapons, will I be expected/required to kill mobs a good chunk of the time? Will harvesters make up the bulk of this work? Will there be a significant difference in TTK between a harvester and combat trained player? Will it need to be a combo of combat+harvesters skinning or whatever to obtain Disciplines resources? I don't mind doing PVE or non-combat related tasks, but I don't want that to be a huge time sink where I put in X hours a day/week for not much PVP in return. Plenty of games do this and do it well. When disciplines might allow me to do a particular role better (map making, scouting, sabotage), I don't want it to be highly dependent on RNG loot drops or whatever from hopefully people going out and grinding mobs. I can run around the world with white gear or none even, but if I can't hide, run faster, detect others, etc without Disciplines, this becomes more of an issue in how the multiple systems all play together and which roles are possible. Find it funny that in a PVP game being a full time harvests or crafters is perfectly fine but it f someone wants to focus on combat that they should go play a MOBA. I missed the "If you want to be a PVPer, expect to do a lot of PVE," sales pitch from ACE. Something like this would be what I prefer, but devs don't seem to agree based on previous comments and what has been provide. But I have some hope as the Class lines are all blank and under construction currently. Maybe we'll see something more creative in the future.
  2. VIP, I must be missing somthing

    Yes it provides an advantage, how much is unknown. If it didn't provide an advantage, it would entice people to pay an optional monthly sub. Exploring basics has training that should benefit just about anyone, but beyond that it is a matter of being able to be better or more efficient at multiple roles/trades. Assuming there are times when we can't/won't be doing our main role, having a trained secondary option seems pretty helpful. Be it to the individual, their faction, or guild. Due to the nature of passive training providing stats and recipes, VIP or simply having multiple accounts, allows us to get the reward without the risk and time commitment. Let X train in the background and make use of it if it is necessary. Doesn't take much effort/time beyond clicking a few buttons when you'd normally train a main focus as well. For someone that only wants to do X all the time, doesn't provide much benefit. Those that want to get the most bang for their buck will likely make use of VIP and or multiple accounts. VIP is also planned to be a trade item. So someone could buy up VIP and then trade for whatever in-game as well. Which is a form of RMT. Not sure if other store goods will be allowed as well. To me this is as much if not more of a concern than whatever advantage VIP may provide to a single account.
  3. Skill Point System Pretty Underwhelming

    Thank you. As I clearly stated all I want to do is pvp 100% of the time, this isn't the game for me
  4. Skill Point System Pretty Underwhelming

    Thank you for the heads up. If you like RPG elements you probably should go play WoW... very constructive conversation. As I mentioned, don't remember seeing disciplines aka potentially the largest system to customize our characters, being tied to killing mobs. Would like to see the dev source for this. Is this just an option or is it THE option? As someone that wants to focus on combat and exploration/scouting, I don't want to feel obligated or forced to grind mindless AI and hope RNG gods like me. If others want to and are able to supply everyone's builds, great. However, usually when PVE is presented as the way to get the carrots, players gravitate towards them. Path of least resistance. Much like another system I don't like, vessel leveling, I just hope there are options. Regardless if I'm obtaining Disciplines or others are doing it for me. We have passive leveling, active leveling, vessel quality climb, equipment quality climb, map zones, dev provided campaign objectives, homogenized classes, raycast/targetless combat, grinding mobs for resources and from what was mentioned, obtaining some of the way we really make a build our own. Toss in quests and the rails will be ready to ride into the sunset. I backed this project because of things like this: "I don't want to kill more rats, fill another experience point bar or collect another meaningless badge." - ACE Clearly things change and have, but I'm still hoping that PVE won't be the the meat and potatoes with PVP as a few drops of gravy.
  5. Skill Point System Pretty Underwhelming

    Guess I missed this. This is confirmed for all minor/major disciplines? I remember something about Thralls and using them to power our items or something, but not that a good deal of actual unique build options would come from killing mobs specifically. Nothing I enjoy more in a PVP game than having to do PVE to be PVP effective...
  6. And now?

    Uninstall, you've won pre-alpha.
  7. Skill Point System Pretty Underwhelming

    Do you believe we need the current passive system for combat/race/class considering what else is available and hopefully grows over time? Would you rather see an active, in-game, cost/benefit, risk/reward, economy boosting system that put stat augmentation and choices in the hands of players directly? Something that allowed for more stat experimenting, meta flow, easier dev balancing, and actually had choices that didn't result in everyone being the same due to a linear dev created system? I've yet to really see anyone defend the current system as something they want, but rather accept because it is what it is. Or those that believe they should be rewarded because they made an account before another or some how managed to overcome the crazy challenge of logging in and clicking on a button once in a while...
  8. Big news for ArtCraft !

    Who are the devs? What's their experience in relation to Unity and or open world MMOs? It's great to hire more devs, especially seasoned, but I won't get my hopes up just yet. They likely have some hard work waiting for them. Until there is some decent improvement, good luck on shutting people down...
  9. Skill Point System Pretty Underwhelming

    I agree. The current model isn't new player friendly. Almost every system is built with a power gap between new and old players, although players coming in with established friends won't be as far behind. The Tome system doesn't seem like a help to catch up new players and I'd guess that we'll see something similar sold in the store. Seems like they added training as a form of permanent progression just for the sake of it. Doesn't really add anything to the overall game design. Worlds, resources, vessels, gear, etc all come an go. It all makes sense and comes with some amount of risk/reward built in. Passive training has no risk/reward, is done outside of the active game, and for the most part only increases the gap between new and old players. Maybe at the start it fit more as a way for everyone to have somewhat equal chance at training, but now they even added in active leveling of vessels. Passive doesn't make sense to me. If it is leveling in a different package, why do we need levels? Cause RPG? Sigh... As with any game, vets will always have more knowledge and experience from trying things beforehand. Along with resources/gear/rewards from actually playing. New players might hop in and google "what's the best build for crowfall," but they'll still have to obtain everything necessary and actually learn how to play. To me this is much less of an issue vs new players hopping in and seeing they are months/years behind in training they have little to no control over (no grinding catch up). As someone that likes competition and challenge, I'd rather we all be as evenly equipped as possible in whatever area with player/team skill being a larger factor. I don't need to be rewarded for logging in more and clicking training buttons or installing the game before someone else.
  10. What direction is the game going?

    If one prefers to PVP what else do they have to master or do? Assuming they have a guild of diverse players contributing in various ways. Beyond basic survival and keeping themselves a live by playing the apple gathering sim or whatever.
  11. Skill Point System Pretty Underwhelming

    While I believe it's a big leap to say CF is a MOBA, including a lackluster "training" system just to have a form of permanent long term progression and more RPG elements has been a lot of work for little return on the players end. The best response I see from those defending or accepting it is "don't worry about it, click and forget." To me that is unfortunate. With the addition of Tomes, which I wouldn't be surprised to see come to the store down the road and or being able to buy VIP and shop items to trade for them in-game, definitely see the whole system as a money maker for them. Not much different than buying convenience boosts in other game stores. They might not offering them directly, but they'll still be part of the economy. Anything that alters a character is part of customizing. Just because skill training isn't exciting or complex doesn't change this.
  12. What direction is the game going?

    Don't believe they've promised this. They've said their model isn't P2W, which is dependent on their view/definition of what that means. The current pay model definitely allows people to buy in-game resources or "power" from the store directly or indirectly along with the option to trade VIP and possibly other store items for in-game resources or "power." Money will provide an advantage for those that choose to pay for it. Doesn't mean people will literally be able to win by paying, but those that pay won't be at a disadvantage because they did. This is pretty much the standard for any smaller studio and especially crowdfunded and early access type products. When devs need our cash to keep going they tend to do a lot more PR. There are still plenty of unanswered questions and unknowns that they could be more open/transparent about. They give enough, but could always provide more info and discussion.
  13. Curse of Midnight Raiders and Wusses

    This might be true if focused solely on the outcome, but I've had plenty of great experiences where in the end I lost. No one wants to lose, but the fight can more than make up for it. For me, when players focus too much on winning and less on having fun and challenging themselves and actually taking a risk, it's just boring. Be it stacking specific gear stats to take out a big boss monster, zerging enemies, or following online guides step by step. When the outcome is predetermined, what's the point? Looking more and more like CF will be about grinding out top tier gear and stacking players. Less about player/group skill and strategy.
  14. Skill Point System Pretty Underwhelming

    Ya it definitely caters to a particular crowd and likely a reason that EVE has gone on for so long. Guess I'd rather have something overly complex that allows me to make mistakes vs boring linear no choice is really that important, just different flavors to choose from. Although forms of respecs or ways to self correct don't hurt either, which EVE added in at some point, which also come with costs as well. Don't believe I've seen anyone seriously defend or support what ACE is doing. There are those that don't like it, want it to be something it isn't, and those that are indifferent. To me that isn't great game design. Passive training might be running in the background and sort of click and forget, but it is a rather foundation feature that everyone has to do and for it to be "meh" is unfortunate.
  15. Skill Point System Pretty Underwhelming

    I didn't play EVE but from what I've seen, training is a lot more interconnected. Pre-Reqs lead to multiple paths that lead to multiple paths and so on. Crowfall's system is very linear and basically the more choices you make, the fewer you have in the future that work with the previous. Also a lot of redundant or duplicate training that has to be done for each race/class/weapon/craft/harvest line. CF's system is straight forward and leaves little room or need to plan out long term. Looking at EVE, I know I'd need a training planner and some thought into where I want to go, be it from the start or over time. Hardest choice in CF? Do I train rock banging or grave digging, elf or human, cleric or ranger, etc. While ships and races/classes are different, the addition of the crow/vessel design could of gone in a similar path as EVE. Some might like the simplicity but leaves a lot to be desired for those that like this type of stuff. In-game customizing allows more but doesn't really make up for it. Vessels/gear are basically just stat boosters, advantages/disadvantages if they ever exist might be the same, leaving disciplines as the most customizing we make. Allowing us to use different passives/abilities on the bar. Honestly don't get why they didn't try to make it a wee bit more interesting, especially with EVE and other games providing a blueprint for inspiration. This is why I don't see a point to them spending so much time/resources on it. It's still a WIP and years later is still boring, lacks any real thought requirement, and for the most part doesn't do anything beyond boost stats and unlock recipes for crafting. They've been working on it since the start and I assume put in a decent amount of time/resources to end up with something that is rather unnecessary. I understand why people expect more out of it considering almost every other game with "training" has a more interesting system and the KS sort of sold it as more than it is as well. Unfortunate that they have it at all and or didn't go in a different direction. Race choices don't make a drastic difference in play style or performance, no different than any other game. Gear/Vessels provide stats. Disciplines are the one meaningful way to make a character our own. While I'm sure we'll see some interesting builds, likely a few will rise to the top for a period and the meta will keep variety down. Will have to see how it goes though.