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APE last won the day on February 12

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  1. Such basic choices are found in every game. What comes next is what I'm concerned about. What I pick Human, I'll be like every Human when it comes to training. Maybe not down to the exact 0.1% Crit chance at every moment along the way, but eventually, there is an end. There is no meaningful horizontal choice within any particular path. Then again, ACE doesn't really hype up CF as a horizontal game, so it's more of what I wish than what is planned. Was hoping for less of the old, not just a new wrapper. What if a company did something crazy and simply didn't include a monotonous system just to have it because it's a "MMO" that has to have some cookie cutter features? If they can't/won't make it interesting, why include it? To me it seems like such a waste of resources. We either get active grinding or passive waiting. Neither of which is overly stimulating or challenging. It's a means to an end that doesn't need to exist. I've seen people praise passive training as it lets them stay caught up with others, but it really doesn't, it allows them to stay caught up with others doing the same thing in only that one area and on top of that, they added active leveling (Vessels) in-game as well, which defeats the passive purpose.
  2. Twitch Streaming- Sniping

    How many PVP MMOs have there been in the last few years? At least open world ones that had any chance to begin with? Ablion Online did fairly well in relation to the game's popularity/size and both Twitch views and game pretty much fell off together that was game issues, not lack of streams. MMOs simply aren't that engaging/entertaining and beyond having a very popular streamer plugging it, they aren't going to do any better. At any given time, there is probably one Fortnite streamer (besides Ninja) with more viewers than all the MMOs on twitch combined or dang close. These are all great ideas and most will come as the game develops. They aren't going to add them in tomorrow to please a couple people that stream. Currently it's like playing hide n seek in a backyard and getting annoyed people find you in 5 seconds. It sucks for now and either have to deal with it or wait for a more stream friendly setting. As I hope all of the UI is free to customize at least in size/location, maybe they could have the map be shrunk down and or moved so that a streamer with a bit of know how could work something up that when they hit "M" or whatever, a popup blocks that portion of the screen only for viewers. I've seen such things done. Also would like to see campaigns where there is a limit on how trained one can be to allow newer players a chance to learn/play with equals. I'm all for games having a TOS that says "play nice, don't snipe," but in reality, it is hard to police in an open world game. However, if someone is streaming and the same players magically continue to find them, report. We do play in a world where streaming is common place and companies should make use of it (as ACE has). Ignoring even a small steaming community doesn't really create much positive PR for current/future customers. Talking trash or going above and beyond is something else and should be dealt with, again, report. They locked the forums down fairly well and I am curious to see how this works out in-game with a much larger population that is harder to filter/track/report/etc. Hopefully they draw a line that leaves room for some personality, but not so much that people log out and don't come back due to folks that find too much pleasure in making others feel poorly.
  3. Pretty sure what we backed, at least Kickstarter and early on, wasn't what many were expecting. Not sure if training was even mentioned on the KS beyond something brief in the FAQ. I did back the concept of being able to try different ways of playing with different rules or options, which seems entirely possible within what they are capable of and have done so far. If they had carbon copied EVE's system into a fantasy setting, I'd be pleased, unfortunately the similarities are superficial in that they both are passive and that's about it. The OP's concern might not be solved by EVE's system, but they seem to have thought up multiple systems that at least go towards something better than what ACE is planning so far. Then again, EVE is an "endless" open experience, not chopped up into time limited matches. Games have to be the sum of the pieces. Training in particular for CF seems like a piece that fell out of traditional MMO/RPG's box just because there needs to be permanent numbers attached to a character stat sheet, not because it enhances the overall experience. To me it seems like training has caused more complaints, overhaul suggestions, flat out confusion than is made up for the limited justification of it. What does it add that can't be done in-game actively in a more fair and skill based manner?
  4. If you mean per campaign training, I'm all for that idea. Crowfall's strength is diverse ways to go about things. Having campaigns that provide upfront pools of points to spend, start everyone blank and go faster through training, or whatever mechanic seem possible with what they have. Could have an overall permanent training system like current that applies to normal campaigns, then a separate system for individual campaigns with different rules. Maybe it's overly complicated, but I don't know why it would be. As is, older accounts will be stronger be it direct power or with more options which is the flip side of the same coin. I don't see how new players are going to come in and easily obtain tomes to train up and "catch up" as the devs intend for the system to do. Having alternate modes/campaigns could go along way to welcoming new players and making the game more accessible while they training slowly in the background or gather enough tomes to "catch up" to whatever point.
  5. What happened to promotion classes?

    Shadowbane's version and what Camelot Unchained has planned with Banes/Boons are what I'm hoping for. To me this is a lot more interesting and plays more into on-going choices, meta, and experimenting vs passive or active stat gains through "training," which are pretty much one and done. There is risk/reward, choice/consequence, freedom of choice (no funneling), ability for devs to continue to add to the system easily, and an overall option to create something unique over and over. Wish they had spent much less time on passive training and had Adv/Disadv by this point.
  6. In theory or on paper, I like the idea of being able to make poor choices, in reality, do I really want to play a game with those choices that result in some sort of permanent disadvantage? Probably not. Beyond time loss, I don't know of many games that have permanent "screw ups" that really result in a un-fun experience. Do you? Most games that allow bad decision making usually make it more about time loss and simply having to allocate time to a better choice, respecs, or making rerolling relatively painless. I totally agree that they could of gone a different route with training, but they didn't, never really did, and never really said they would. Our 1st version wasn't drastically different than what we have. Make a AT choice, then train it to become better till done. There were never any "choose A or B" or limitations that I remember. Promos were a possible, but this seems redundant with what they've added since. Training stats for a year to then train more stats doesn't seem all that amazing, even if some powers or what not get unlocked. When disciplines can do more easier, go that route. IMO, the training system they went with is unnecessary and doesn't fit the rest of the game model. I believe new and old alike assume or want it to be something it isn't based on previous game experience and doesn't really provide a lot of entertainment or purpose that couldn't be done in-game through active systems. With that, they have plenty of in-game options that can be further built out that do and will provide plenty of chances to make choices with consequences, including poor ones that result in us feeling like we screwed up. However, most are short term or able to be overcome. I have no issue with FOTM players, let player skill be the factor, not who trained the right thing 5 months ago because they magically knew what would be performing well or Meta months in the future. At this point, I've let it go. Training is boring and I'm just glad they are making it less tedious and time consuming to use. Let me get it done asap and back to what matters. Maybe one day they will do something with it, but that won't be anytime soon. Much prefer they build out what they have and add Advantages/Disadvantages.
  7. Progression seems almost entirely vertical so far. At least when it comes to stats/power. Passive Training - Vertical Gear (stats/quality) - Vertical Vessels (stats/quality) - Vertical Vessel Levels - Vertical Professions - Vertical Fairly similar vertical stat/quality climb found in most games. Start with nothing and grind away for better and more stuff. Disciplines mix it up and add some horizontal options, but don't really counter so much vertical progression and power. While a new player might be able to get top quality gear quickly from friends or nice folks, this likely isn't going to be the norm for most. Those that come before and or pay more will have more options and power. Combat PVP comes with a lot of variables where a new player in bad gear might outplay someone with more training/stats, or maybe it takes a few. Or the more experienced and well equipped simply runs over a bunch of less fortunate players with little they can do. Can't really say one way or another that "4 new players with XYZ will beat 1 vet with ABC." Numbers wise, it might not be like something WoWish where a high lvl is untouchable, but I'm not sure where ACE means by "super shallow power curve." Will gear/training of a maxed player being 50, 75, 300% stronger than a relatively new player? How will this matter in small/large/siege situations? When it comes to Profession PVP (gathering/crafting/economics), I don't see how a new player can outplay those that can do it faster/better or simply can do it at all with how some time gates work.
  8. They could of gone with less permanent "progression" or choices and allowed players to make short time commitments to choices that had consequences. Like per campaign training or respecs with timers. Make a choice, deal with it for a while, possibly win/lose campaigns based on those choices. Next campaign or time frame, try something different. Not hugely different than GW2 sPVP, Mobas, Overwatch and other games where moment to moment or match to match choices impact outcomes more than what someone clicked or chose months/years prior. This bugs me. I'll give in and accept training is just boring stat gains, but making it so linear and having rather limited paths to even reach the same end as everyone else is so much more boring. Rather just have a list of stats to train and let me train which ones I want when I do. At least then I could go all Dex or all Str or whatever, without needing to "waste" time on other things before getting to what I want. Having things like resource nodes locking out final stat nodes also seems forced or restrictive to how I want to play my characters. "You want to hit other players harder? Well train wood smacking 1st...." I'm fine with pre-reqs, but would of rather seen something like EVEs system.
  9. I agree that it is an exaggeration, but training has little consequence in of itself. You training Blacksmithing and someone else training Fishing (one day?) obiously provide differences, but two Rock Smackers aren't going to play all too different nor look different on paper. Some would simply have liked to see a deeper/complex system that allowed some uniqueness on the training end. Very true that training isn't the whole game and IMO, doesn't fit in this game even. Clearly one of the most boring, safe, less "skill" based aspects that a lot of time and effort (money) have gone into. Seems like a waste to put so much in and get something out that even those that aren't critical of, seem to dismiss as "don't worry about it, not that important." Every feature can't be mind blowing, but a dud is a dud. Still glad to see they are at least making it less tedious to use it. For months of training, two players will still play basically the same based on training. What they choose to train 1st, 2nd, 10th, won't really make a difference unless I'm missing how a few stat points will drastically or slightly change things?
  10. What happened to promotion classes?

    If everything was gear based it would always tied into the economy, risk/reward, campaign rules, allow a fluid/active meta, experimenting, decrease the need for restarts/respecs/crying, less dev focus on "fixing" or balancing everything minute by minute and so on. Unfortunate that they've still held on to permanent vertical stat gains just because. Even if they are only a few percent here and there, having to wait weeks/months/years to fully unlock something looks worse on paper than traditional RPGs where you can actively grind it out in a faster time most likely. I'd rather my choices come with consequences in the moment, not what what I clicked on 6 months ago. Then again, if training is relatively small on overall importance, why waste so much time on it not only for the devs but in making it appear to players that it matters, so much that we should spend extra money to do it more... As is, still going to have people complaining months down the line about how their choice sucks, is weak, not meta, or whatever and demand respecs and what not. Devs likely will be expected to spend more time making sure every single choice is equal and balanced magically and or offering respecs defeating the purpose of all of it in in the first place.
  11. What happened to promotion classes?

    Initially the Adv/Disadv concept appeared to be tied to character creation. Although later on (currently mentioned in outdated FAQ) that they'd be added like disciplines runes as well. I'd prefer something chosen during creation, not unlike other MMOs where you pick and choose +/- stats out of a total point pool. Click a few buttons and be done, but thought should be involved based on how one plans to play that particular vessel/character/build. Instead of a passive training baseline stats, really not impacting anything beyond "well I'm better now I guess, I have more numbers." While they could go with some regular stat gains/losses, I'd like to see some creative things like "Chicken ticker consumption speed increased by 5%" - Gain 10 pts to spend or "Fires regen 10% more health/sec" - 8 pt cost. Such things could allow even two of the same race/class with similar disciplines to function differently if not on a larger scale, at least in the smaller moment to moment stuff.
  12. What happened to promotion classes?

    Promos were likely going to be redundant and or out of place with what we have now, but I'd still really like to see Advantages and Disadvantages. Camelot Unchained's Banes/Boons system looks great so far. https://camelot.gamepedia.com/Banes_and_Boons For me, I'd rather have tons of these then any passive training for race/class. Having to pick and choose what to enhance or take away leads to a lot more thought. I know some love/need their +20 Dex because they clicked a button and waited months, but geez is it boring. Even if Adv/Disadv are short term and tied to Vessels, would be more involved and reoccurring. Hopefully they don't scrap this idea and it ends up being great. Disciplines could use more variety and viability as well. More "bard" like sets of disciplines that taken together turn a class into almost a different one. Not just slight damage tweaks or now you have a bow with a couple powers!
  13. PvE Campaign?

    If you have played MHW and seen or experienced what ACE is doing with PVE, why would you even want this option? So many other great PVE focused games, most with forms of PVP as well. I'm all for options and increasing population/profits without heavy dev cost to do so, but PVE as in traditional PVE is not this game's strength in the least.
  14. Supposedly ACE wants us to have specialization and for it to matter (I'll just ignore VIP for this). If one person can specialize in crafting, unlock recipes, make items and what not along with going out to fight, I'm not sure why others can't specialize in Combat and spend the majority of their time in some form of PVP. If Combat training isn't equivalent to gathering/crafting, remove it as it already has a lot of redundant stats that could be applied to race/class options. Expect everyone to be combat ready and have an actual useful trade, assuming more will eventually be added. "Constant" can mean different things I guess, but I don't see it realistic to 24/7 100% of the time to log in and jump into a fight 5 seconds later. Roaming, scouting, preparing, etc come into play, but in general, there is down time. But if POIs, land, strongholds, PVE spots or whatever is to hold value, seems realistic to be wanting to control them as much as possible and fighting over them as much as possible. As I've commented it doesn't need to be extreme. It isn't either MOBA/BattleRoyale nonstop fighting or 1 fight a play session. I'm not sure what a "standard sandbox mmorpg feature" is, but I do know there are many ways to go about game design. I give ACE a bit of credit where they aren't just going by the rulebook and going down the list of "standard sandbox mmorpg features" and adding them to the game. To me it seems like people want their way to be THE way and anything else isn't the right way to do it. Which doesn't have to be in such a potentially open game design. If someone wants the stuffy old one way to play "standard sandbox mmorpg," why not play one? CF's attraction for me is the variety of things they can do and variety of players they can entertain. If they end up with one ruleset and way to play, game over.
  15. EXACTLY. What annoys me the most is folks that don't seem to grasp the possibility that this game could have. There are so many options that don't require rebuilding or spending a lot of time on. Crowfall is essentially a MMO with modes. Modes are what make the money, regardless of the game or genre. Modes usually are just turning the knobs of what is already in place. While there needs to be a decent amount of standard foundation, on top of that is wide open. I've read comments about how a battle royale mode wouldn't work and would require a lot of dev time. They already made a BR at the start with Hungerdome. Seems some are just too focused on what they want that seeing the possibilities is not possible.