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  1. The fact I check in every half a year and every time I do posts like this are on the top of the general forums and have a couple of months with no recent responses shows that no matter what these other people say, you're correct. They don't understand their audience is the only possible explanation. Everyones older, looking for a specific feeling, and don't really care about the other poorly made socks. Tons of die hard goofies will sit and talk about all these specific systems they want, but they don't understand how to build a vision or a company. The only important thing is developing a minimum viable product that can make some money, be enjoyable for users, and fund further development. It's been years and millions of dollars and this still doesn't custard exist. While on a superficial layer some nerds might care, most people will not be kept around by some crazy complex crafting system, tons of progression grinding, other random art crap. That poorly made socks is icing on the cake of something that is already working well and attracting more people. The goal should have always been, and should be, simply making an easy to get into game for people with less time that is highly reminiscent of shadowbane with a couple of huge issues fixed. I don't think people really even care so much about what form it takes or how even things like combat works. Everything should have just been geared towards the SIMPLEST possible combat system that works well on large scale and is easy to make without being bug ridden. Even tab target is still fun if it's just a backdrop to what the players actually want - an empire building game. Here's how this should work after 5 years of development to have a thriving community: The front page of this poorly made sockspile website should be blank and there should be nothing but a PLAY2CRUSH button on the front page where you click, download a client, make an account, and start playing within 5 minutes of coming to this website. The combat is simple, the basic gear is easy to get, you're put with lots of other players and you can just start killing some mobs and looting and getting a feel for the combat and purchasing crap from vendors. There are NPC guilds you can quickly join that constantly wage war against each other and have tons of players in them which can't gank or loot you. You fight other guilds, get a taste of looting corpses, getting wealthier as you win, getting exposed to more powerful items/equipment/training/tactics/stuff to do and get a real taste for poorly made socks real fast. At some point you learn about player guilds, see how much even more freedom they get in building empires, gaining wealth, getting the best gear, raiding villages, capturing resource generators, sieging enemies, waging wars off-world on temporary short lived servers that give powerful rewards, and so on. I want to give money, and I want to try your game. But it's like I gotta jump through hoops, and PAY YOU, just to see what's going on here. But guess what, if I'm going to pay money I'm also going to read first - which means now I gotta go through forums and scan for info about how poorly made socks is, waste more time/interest, and also realize that most people are not happy here. Now I'm definitely not going to pay, and I'm annoyed at how much time you made me waste. That's not a great way to grow. Show, don't tell. Get me involved fast, show me the potential, and I'll gladly throw money at you. I'm superbly confident this company and game would be saved if they literally scrapped all the hogwash, remade a basic shadowbane system over a couple months, wiped the website and just replaced it with a play2crush button and 1 paragraph blurb, and let you download and try the game for free. After 50 hours of play time total, it asks you to pay monthly if you'd like to keep your account. That's it. Fire all the worthless redundant employees and cut costs too. Add a subreddit or some poorly made socks to chat with players for feedback sometimes, these forums don't do poorly made socks. If they did the game wouldn't be dead.
  2. IMO, if a sandbox MMO is ever to truly succeed on its own then it needs to be fully 100% entertaining to play with no one else online. That's the only way it can survive the ebb and flow of population drops after large player-based wars decimate the world. If enough players can joyfully continue on in a downtrend, it's only a matter of time until new empires form and new wars will be waged. Shadowbane only had part of the equation figured out, and it still limped on for a decade with virtually no updates, attention, or care. The mourning server had over 7 full cycles of global war and then peaceful slow times. The process was fascinating. Expand on that poorly made socks! Grinding is not the answer. Whacking trees is not the answer. Keep the basic game systems simple so you can eloquently layer them to create interesting mechanics. Look at terraria, you can play that piece of poorly made socks game for weeks on end completely alone and still have fun. Steal ideas from that kind of poorly made socks! If you go out into the world outside of a safe area, just have mobs start spawning around you in your AoI. custard, simply surviving and getting your bearings can be both hard and intense! No players even needed. Nothing should be a chore. Raid a town of NPCs and start upgrading your armor and building your empire. Let the loot flow. It's not like you'll hold onto it long, anyhow - in such a merciless world. While I haven't bothered to test any CF, if what Maj is saying is correct, then the only way this game will not be dead on arrival is if they take a massive risk and do a very large pivot on their plans. The lag, poor network performance, fps issues and so on are irrelevant if this is not the first thing fixed. I fear they raised too much money and were not pushed to work with little and slowly grow it into something awesome. Instead, it seems like they started with too much and weren't prepared to manage it. I'd really like to see a post from them scrapping 90% of the game, taking a highly targeted approach forward, and focusing on getting a few incredibly key components done right. Hire someone with custard vision who can force you to cut the fat and slap together a working model from the poorly made sockspile you've created. Stop wasting money on hiring people to make more stupid archetype or class concept art. It's doing nothing but wasting time and money. Just focus on making something fun for small audience and let it get its legs from there.
  3. Crowfall had potential at some point, but there's just not enough of a vision. Their entire focus should have been on a shadowbane-esque PvP format with poorly made socks just fixed, and a lot more content. It's like they don't even know their audience. It's literally 25-45 y/o guys who played PvP games and want to recapture the magic of the freedom early MMOs granted players. Most of us have jobs, are older, and can't dedicate the time for stupid grinds. We're focused on maximizing our fun time, and want more meaningful interactions than kids. 1) Resources are a means to an end. They should be able to be passively mined and captured in a multitude of ways that are easy if no other players challenge you. How to stop this from getting boring fast if competition dies down? Just make marginal gains in equipment have exponentially high costs and have equipment permanently deteriorate. It would be easy to build a few systems here that give diminishing returns on control which old games didn't have. So much can be done here, but one things for sure: the answer isn't a grind. 2) Skill training is the least fun thing possible. Some instant gratification is good. Hitting "train" and getting powerful is custard fine. The passive skill system literally made me not want any part of crowfall after hearing about it years ago. I'd put up with it if everything else was golden, but it's ridiculously stupid. It's not for people with less time. It's for people who just want to micromanage hogwash all day. Just let progression be fast and use diminishing returns after a certain point, but don't cap progress. 3) Choices are fun. The class system should be insanely convoluted, but simple at the same time. Just give a custardton of choices, but keep it simple. I want to be able to choose between 40 classes with 40 abilities each and another 200 abilities that anyone can get. Give me limited points to work with. Let me actually be creative without having to dump time. These things are easy to do if you don't try to make some insanely aim based game with lots of physics interactions that bottleneck everything. Even if progression is fast it would still take you 20 years to try out every possible combination. 4) Spam left clicking isn't fun after a few days. FPS's will always do it better, and be much smoother too. What's so bad about tab target? It's EASY to implement and PROVEN to be superbly fun and opens massive DESIGN SPACE for fun abilities that are quick to market. If this game was tab target, it would have been live by 2016 and much bigger by now. The combat would actually be fun, and the game would run much smoother. Older games combat systems are still custard fun 2 decades later. This is easily their greatest mistake. 5) We want our custard consequence back. I don't want temporary worlds. I don't want rules. Want to use them as a side aspect of the game? Fine. Want to use them as a place to restart if you lose the main game? Fine, that might not even be a bad idea. There's a lot of ways to make consequence not cripple the game. I want the adrenaline rush of defending something I actually care about. I'm still friends with people from shadowbane because we shared memorable experiences we can still talk about. I have no remaining internet friends from the past 10 years of playing random games. There's nothing to talk about once the game is over. There's no intrigue, politics, passion, or anything. Just headshots and mountain dew. But yea this poorly made socks was obvious half a decade ago. The developers lack vision, are afraid to challenge their past failures, and lack the balls to make the drastic changes they need to. After they did the bait and switch from play2crush.com to "appease everyone and raise money" it was obvious which path they chose. also hi caffy, ftp fo lyfe.
  4. I spent a lot of time here early on and lost interest as they revealed both how little work had actually been done, and just how fragmented and poor their vision for the game was. Years have passed and I was recently convinced they're finally on the right path and have chosen a path (more shadowbane-like from what I can tell). The pvp-videos seem like they're actually not that bad, despite poor server performance, and there's a grain of hope now. Nice! Game development is hard, any progress is good. Then I see something like this? I'm so confused by their choices. Is this game supposed to be the spiritual sequel to magic 101? Is this game developed for tweens? Are they that out of touch with their player base? All the funders and hardcore people ATTEMPTING to get people motivated here are from a shadowbane/darkfall/eve/uo background. They're the ones who have and will pay the bills. They're the people who will stick around for 5 years and continue to play after the game hoppers jump ship when the game lags at launch. I understand pandering to multiple audiences, but this is just so 100% in the opposite direction it's insulting. And the trailer quality itself is just so bad and cheesy on so many levels I seriously can not think it's anymore than a lame joke. It looks like a high school project for everyones favorite board game or something. There isn't an ounce of professionalism, the voice acting sounds like a confused girl in a closet speaking into a 2 dollar mic reading from a hand written sheet shes never seen before. Really? The CEO or anyone in charge should have SHOT THIS DOWN instantly and seriously reconsidered who they tasked with developing this. Stuff like this makes someone like me who was about to spend 70$ on an underdeveloped pre-alpha REALLY not want to get hosed again by another KS funded project. I only even posted anything because there's far too many yes men in this thread. Agree with me or not about knowing your playerbase, but it's impossible to say with a straight face that this trailer isn't simply bad. Get your stuff together ACE!
  5. I think I made a ton of posts about this back when I was active on this forum (a few years ago when the project started). I'll never understand the crowfall devs obsession with having some silly combat system that's trying to be an mutant hybrid of every semi-successful modern MMO. I believe Path of Exile is a shining example that you can use old mechanics and still be wildly successful, as long as the core concepts behind the game are solid. This game, theoretically, already has unique and solid core concepts behind it (FFA PvP, Player Controlled Worlds, Guild vs Guild vs Guild vs Guild, Risk vs Reward, Consequence Driven World, etc). It's combat style should have always been the classic MMORPG style. Massively time saving, massively cheaper to produce, massively easier to tweak, balance, and add complexity to. These classical systems are also far and well beyond more strategic than any active aiming/combo based combat system that sacrifices so much just to sound cool to game hoppers who won't keep the bills paid anyhow. Bottom Line: If people want to play a game for intense combat, having to learn lots of combos, and rely totally on their muscle memory and reflexes, then they'll play games created for this from the ground up, like For Honor - not Crowfall. Poor resource management, imo.
  6. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTdTELLjgmk Friend sent me that (not gonna lie, haven't checked up on CF in a few months). Generally the idea of an RPG is that you're "playing" a character, and are not the character itself. The immersion isn't there when you're playing a bumbling idiot who can't even seem to face the opponent correctly, throws attacks in random directions, hits people when his weapon clearly wasn't even close to making contact, and stands around for multiple seconds in front of an enemy before doing any of these actions. Let's not forget the million and a half lag/desync issues that will arise from this type of combat if done in a large scale environment. Could you explain to me what makes it so exhilarating and engaging to you?
  7. Too bad they didn't just make it tab target, with aimed abilities mixed in, and focused on having a really well done and in-depth combat system. People wanted crowfall for the open-FFA pvp and player politics/control. That's what the focus should be. Instead, they're going to focus a ton of effort into making this combat work, and it will still come out uninspired, awkward, and boring and like every other aim based MMO. Tab target is still more than fine - it allows massive depth, skill, ease of use, immersion, and smooth game flow at the cost of some minor mechanical skill (aiming/bunny hopping) that doesn't even interest the majority of players. It doesn't have to be "new and sleek" to be good. Old controls are fine if the game is amazing. There are plenty of new games that are made with old fashioned control setups that are simply awesome. You can't make an amazing game when you're worried about doing something that can't be done (not with a small budget, at least). It was painful to watch some of the combat videos. Here's to hoping they realize their mistake, fix it while they still can, and get combat looking smooth and actually intense. Not to mention, it's easy as poorly made socks to implement a foundation for it. Otherwise, art is pretty decent so far.
  8. Yea, just playing an absurdly watered down money grab version of SB is less embarrassing. Enjoy spending 90 dollars for your medium keep in your safe EK. Nerd. Oh wait, you wanna show me whose boss? Too bad you can't. Maybe you can come do some 20v20 wolf campaign and, uh, play capture the flag with me. Yea, turnt me up.
  9. Now just make all the kingdom building stuff work in campaigns, where people can actually challenge your rule, and we might be getting somewhere.
  10. Yea, no. Pretty much 50% of the people who have worked on SBE at some point, with starfish, have thrown their hands up in the air and abandoned the project with the same reason: it's a waste of time when someone just keeps trying to push stupid poorly made socks. It's the same thing over and over. Old players come back, get sucked in, and then realize it's just silly. Some people like blyster stay there because they're just as bad as starfish with wanting to push things that remove all semblance of the original game. MB is almost exactly how shadowbane was at shut down. I came back, and played for a few months when it had 600-800 population. It was FUN, and impartially run with no interference at all. The developers just lost interest, or whatever. If they wipe, and it gets some population, I'm sure it would be fun again. And wasn't the story of Quietus/Papah that they were involved on Murray's SB emulator (pre-SBE existing), and were a big part of the entire foundation of code used in SBE (in other words, they didn't steal poorly made socks). This explanation has always made more sense as SBE has never actually run well compared to MB.
  11. Starfish is one of the major reasons that SB probably about to die for good. He does the same thing, over and over, and has slowly divided the community, and will continue to run more people off. He baits people in with promises of fixing up the game, improving things, and making it interesting. He acts like he's going out of his way, and spending a ton of time and effort, to save the game. Truth is, he was a child when SB was live (not an 18 year old, an actual child - he was 12-13 during SBs prime). He was the silly kid in my guild that would roll def stance dagger throwing proccing warriors and get killed in town/made fun of for being utterly useless. That was what he got from SB. All he wants to do is change things into whatever vision he has of being a "leet dueling game". I tried to help guide their first SBE balance patch, and managed to stop them from doing some incredibly stupid things (mino stun immunity only works at 33% hp, shadowmantle flagged as poison debuff, etc). In the end, though, all he does is just push his ideas, ignore everyone else (or butcher a decent idea to be in line with his thoughts). The "community feedback", "roundtable feedback", or "advocate feedback" more or less have little real importance. He only listens to them when the feedback is so overwhelming negative that people will actually quit the game en masse if he doesn't remove some stupid idea. I don't play SB anymore as it seems the MB developers gave up (honestly, MB was fun after a 5 year SB break. They did a great job on making it run well), but just reading some of the changes makes me laugh. 50+ aoe targets? Really? If anything the game needed to have AoEs turned down. Who in their right mind thinks that a game is fun when you stand still and mash one button? The reason all the good guilds used meat was because it was actually fun to play. Kiting, getting on target, switching targets, etc - things that required actual skill and coordination. Casters are still more than viable on MB, with no changes to the game, but for the most part, it's simply not fun to play them en masse and just try to spam AoEs. The people actually coding need to just kick him out. It's really the only way that game has a chance. Him and koots don't understand you can't just throw in a million changes, over and over, with no testing, and expect a decent and cohesive project. It's especially true when the game is a decade old. Basically, he just succeeded in usurping the project, unlike Murray who tried years earlier when SB live first went down and the emulators popped up. The problem with these people is they didn't actually make a good game or build an audience - they stole it from someone else.
  12. No idea what people are ranting about here, but that archived forums was fun reading. On servers like mourning/saedron where FTP was big and dominant the game was fun, but I have to say taking 10 people and just pissing off entire populations of random servers was always much more fun. Wish there was a record of that whine thread about druids when the vindication alliance was wiped in it's entirety by 10 mostly naked elf druids.
  13. frobobo

    Epic Pvp

    Nice read. I'm still more than worried about how Crowfall will bring anything like this back. How can you really care about that plot of land (the primary catalyst in your story) if you know you only had temporary ownership to begin with (auto-wiping servers), and the game is designed around being forced to fight (to gain "victory points"). You're supposed to battle it out from the get go, with full knowledge that everything you have is short lived - win or lose. In Crowfall, it seems you don't just play the game, and HAPPEN to get sucked into a situation that through some chain of events devolves into a devastating six month long war. The game is being designed to force you into combat so that you can obtain victory points and be able to "win" and bring more trophies/items home.
  14. tl:dr: games a scientology shill, everyone abandon ship. tom cruise gonna git cha.
  15. Meh, I have less interest in crowfall than the emulators at this point. Everything about this game just screams some e-sport skirmish simulator. Their latest siege update is just one more nail in the coffin for me. Frilly victory points and capture the flag games with cities going vulnerable once a week or some crap. It seems it will have none of the magic shadowbane did (which, apparently, was by total accident and not by design). So, let it not die. Magicbane wipe should be interesting, and I'll probably return for that.
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