I think you may have misunderstood my post. I actually agree with you in both of your examples. Both are examples of paying to win. What you are excluding from your post is the 2nd part of my original thread. If you are in an environment where it is possible to lose everything you 'paid to win', then it *has the chance* to balance out. Again it will be highly dependent on the devs implementing the right environment. I am skeptical that it will actually happen purely because so many other games have tried and failed, but it is possible.
I think an analogy can help some people with the p2w debate… Player A has $ Player B has apples Player C is a unpleasant person Player A pays the devs $ for a voucher that player B desires. Once player A obtains the voucher, he trades the voucher to Player B for his apples. Player A now has apples and Player B has his voucher. Both players are currently happy. In *this* particular transaction, Player A has just paid to win. He used currency out of the game to trade for something in the game that he wouldn’t have gotten without using currency out of the game. He bought an advant