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  1. Here are some batch recipes for various buff foods, to be able to craft with zero waste. I hate leftovers!!! In the "Crafting Process" sections below, the numbers are the number of crafts to complete, which may be different from the number of products crafted. SOUS CHEF ARTISAN CHEESE x5 (Additional Risk Difficulty Reduction +5) A great choice when you don't need more experimentation points (see Sumptuous Pot Pie below!). Shopping List: 10x Raw Milk (500g) 6x Cooking Foil (36g) 2x Water Flask (30g) 2x Large Cooking Pot (12g) 2x Mushrooms (harvest) 5x Beeswax (Logging) TOTAL: 578g (116g ea) Crafting Process: 2x Pasteurized Milk (Components) 1x Yeast (Components) 5x Artisan Cheese (Sous Chef) SPICED CHOCOLATE MILK x5 (Harvest Critical Amount: All +1) Spicy choco milk is great because it offers a Wined to go with your harvesting Dined! The buff it gives maybe doesn't sound like much, but can nearly double the amount of goods that pop on a critical. Yum! Shopping List: 15x Raw Milk (750g) 10x Sugarcane (100g) 5x Hot Pepper (150g) 5x Cooking Foil (30g) 1x Large Cooking Pot (12g) 5x Empty Flask (Alchemy) 5x Cocoa Beans (scavenge) 5x Peppermint (scavenge) TOTAL: 1042g (208g ea) Crafting Process: 1x Pasteurized Milk (Components) 5x Chocolate Bar (Campfire Cooking) 5x Spiced Chocolate Milk (Sous Chef) Be sure to add Hot Pepper additive! GRILLED SANDWICH x5 (+15 harvesting skill) Sandwiches provide a different harvesting buff depending on the meat provided (DO NOT USE MUSHROOMS AS PRODUCE, they'll always make Logging sandwiches!). Gravedigging: Spider Logging: Mushroom / Bear Mining: Auroch / Cat Quarrying: Boar / Elk Skinning: Wolf Shopping List: 20x Potato (400g) 15x Ground Black Pepper (150g) 14x Water Flask (210g) 14x Cooking Foil (84g) 5x Raw Milk (125g) 5x Meat or Mushroom of choice (Skinning) 2x Mushroom (harvested) 5x Produce (ie Garlic, Wild Onion) (harvested) TOTAL: 969g (194g ea) Crafting Process: 10x Grind Food Items (Potato) (Food Processing) 1x Fresh Butter (Components) 2x Potato Flour (Components) 2x Yeast (Components) 5x Bread (Campfire Cooking) 5x Grilled Sandwich (Sous Chef) (DO NOT USE MUSHROOMS AS PRODUCE, it'll force Logging sandwiches due to a bug) HEAD CHEF BISCUITS AND GRAVY x5 (Melee Power Damage +5%) If most of your DPS comes from melee powers, here's a nice go-to food. Stock up on those blood and bones! Shopping List: 11x Large Cooking Pot (132g) 10x Potato (200g) 10x Ground Black Pepper (100g) 10x Seasoning Salt (100g) 10x Water Flask (150g) 5x Raw Milk (125g) 1x Cooking Foil (6g) 5x Animal Blood (Skinning) 5x Animal Bone (Skinning) 5x Meats or Mushrooms (Skinning or harvested) 5x Hot Sauce (scavenged) TOTAL: 813g (163g ea) Crafting Process: 5x Grind Food Items (Potato) (Food Processing) 1x Pasteurized Milk (Components) 1x Potato Flour (Components) 5x Bone Broth (Sous Chef) 5x Biscuits and Gravy (Head Chef) BON TIPPERS x5 (Additional Risk Difficulty Reduction +15) Tippers are great for individual crafts -- they offer the same buff, but only for one experiment. When you're planning on doing a bunch of crafting in a row, Bon Tippers are where it's at for Wined! Shopping List: 50x Tippers (5000g) 14x Water Flask (210g) 10x Sugarcane (100g) 10x Raw Milk (250g) 5x Ground Black Pepper (50g) 2x Large Cooking Pot (24g) 2x Cooking Foil (12g) 10x Empty Flask (Alchemy) 10x Apple (Logging) 5x Currant Berries (scavenge) 4x Mushrooms (harvest) TOTAL: 5646g (1129 ea) Crafting Process: 2x Pasteurized Milk (Components) 2x Yeast (Components) 10x Red Wine (Sous Chef) 5x Bon Tippers (Head Chef) MEAT BURGUNDY x5 (Basic Attack Damage +10%) LMB ftw! Do more basic attack damage! Lordy this recipe takes a lot of random stuff to make lol Shopping List: 30x Potato (600g) 10x Large Cooking Pot (120g) 12x Water Flask (180g) 5x Sugarcane (50g) 2x Cooking Foil (12g) 5x Empty Flask (Alchemy) 5x Apple (Logging) 10x Meat (Skinning) 2x Mushrooms (harvested) 10x Herbs (harvested) 5x Produce (harvested) 5x Currant Berries (scavenged) TOTAL: 965g (192g ea) Crafting Process: 15x Grind Food Items (Potato) (Food Processing) 5x Grind Food Items (Herbs) (Food Processing) 1x Potato Flour (Components) 1x Yeast (Components) 5x Red Wine (Sous Chef) 5x Gnocchi (Sous Chef) 5x Meat Burgundy (Head Chef) PESTO GNOCCHI x5 (Ranged Power Damage +5%) Pew pew stronger ranged powers! Eat all the potatoes!!! Shopping List: 60x Potatoes (1200g) 15x Large Cooking Pot (180g) 5x Raw Milk (125g) 12x Water Flask (180g) 1x Cooking Foil (6g) 20x Herbs (harvested) 5x Mushrooms (harvested) 5x Olive Oil (scavenged) TOTAL: 1691g (338g ea) Crafting Process: 30x Grind Food Items (Potato) (Food Processing) 10x Grind Food Items (Herbs) (Food Processing) 1x Fresh Butter (Components) 2x Potato Flour (Components) 10x Gnocchi (Sous Chef) 5x Pesto Gnocchi (Head Chef) POT ROAST x5 (Healing Bonus +3%) Pot roast is delicious and makes your healing better. What's not to like? Shopping List: 30x Potatoes (600g) 15x Large Cooking Pot (180g) 15x Water Flask (225g) 10x Seasoning Salt (100g) 10x Ground Black Pepper (100g) 10x Meat (Skinning) 5x Animal Blood (Skinning) 5x Animal Bone (Skinning) 10x Herbs (harvested) 5x Satyr Salt Cube (scavenged) TOTAL: 1205g (241g ea) Crafting Process: 15x Grind Food Items (Potatoes) (Food Processing) 5x Grind Food Items (Herbs) (Food Processing) 1x Potato Flour (Components) 5x Bone Broth (Sous Chef) 5x Gnocchi (Sous Chef) 5x Pot Roast (Head Chef) SUMPTUOUS POT PIE x5 (Experimentation Points +1) A straightforward Dined for +1 experimentation point! Alternatively, look at Artisan Cheese for difficulty reduction. Shopping List: 20x Potato (400g) 19x Water Flask (285g) 9x Cooking Foil (54g) 5x Raw Milk (125g) 5x Large Cooking Pot (60g) 12x Mushrooms (harvest) Alternatively: 2x Mushrooms + 10x any meat. 5x Produce (harvest) 5x Urgu Spice Mix (scavenge) TOTAL: 924g (185g ea) Crafting Process: 10x Grind Food Items (Potato) (Food Processing) 1x Fresh Butter (Components) 2x Potato Flour (Components) 1x Yeast (Components) 5x Bread (Campfire Cooking) 5x Sumptuous Pot Pie (Head Chef) Mushrooms or meat, your choice! No effect on outcome.
  2. Dregs. We are in it. Alliances have been made. Heads will be harvested...along with arms, and torsos, and...you get it. Join us! Hey all, Graveyard Harvesting Organization, Union Local #451 [GHOUL-451] is recruiting. We are primarily a NA based guild. Currently we are focused on Crafting/Harvesting and figuring out how all the things work together. We need more people interested in any aspect of the game. The core of the guild has gamed together for years online and in person (everquest, eve, wow, tsw, D&D, Savage Worlds, etc.) I suppose that makes us family style (assuming you have a weird-probably-shouldn't-be-in-public-together-cover-the-children's-eye-and-ears-pearl-clutching-inducing sort of family) If any of the above sounds like a match to you...you might need to seek professional help...OR you could contact me. Gremel. PS. Our harvesters have recently had to defend their mining and quarrying locations in battle. The pvp bug may have bit some of our members. We are enjoying the fights (special thanks to the folks in sun and earth faction on west 1 for putting up good fights) here is the archived post from way back in 2016 https://community.crowfall.com/topic/11014-graveyard-harvesting-organization-union-local-451
  3. Come one come all! [GOTR] Ghosts of the Revolution is currently looking for dedicated quality members interested in competing for end game content. We have a fun, lively social atmosphere paired with a serious, focused style when it comes to active PVP. You may know us from games such as Planetside 2 where we have become well known to that community for our tight teamwork, combat effectiveness and discipline. We carry these values with us to other games such as Warframe, Foxhole, Star Citizen, Worlds Adrift, Atlas and many others. We pride ourselves on our ability to come out on top, despite being outnumbered and outgunned, all while staying classy and not belittling our opponents with insults. We are looking to take and hold strategic assets in campaigns, but we need you and your friends! Ghosts of the Revolution has over a decade of community presence. We also have relationships with other communities we have encountered in our years and look forward to making more in Crowfall. If you have any questions at all please feel free to contact me! ** What we have to offer ** 15+ years worth of consistent community presence. Structure and room for advancement Teamspeak3 with Official forums Active Discord Your next best friend that you might have awkward moments with. Your next questionably drunkin confrontation with the person who used to be your best friend while riding donkeys that are also too drunk to keep footing. Comradery Consistent TeamSpeak and in-game presence, we always have people to talk to! Quality people! We don't accept anyone and everyone. ** Requirements ** Be Active Be a team player first Be that guy/gal people want to chill with, your time here will be much better spent. Teamspeak is required for any organized groups or operations. A microphone is encouraged if you wish to relay important intel. Our Website https://gotr.us/ Our Discord When Applicable https://discord.gg/uKzJ6mmtg4
  4. <+>------------------------------------------------------------------------------<+> What is Lion Forge Guild? We run a marketplace called the [-LFG-] Bazaar. Our primary function as an econ guild is providing moderate to low cost goods to newer players to help improve their experience in the game. To that end, we run events like Auctions, Combat Tournaments, Mini-Game Days, Roleplay Centric Events, and of course we at -LFG- work hard to provide accurate and concise information to new players about the game. Our secondary purpose is providing content exploration for our guild members, this means partaking in everything Crowfall has to traditionally offer from group PVE gathering to Keep Siege events and everything in between. How do I know if this guild is right for me? Altybear says "I want interactive players. I want players who above all else want to engage with people, be friendly in all chat, enjoy chatting in discord in voice or text. I don’t mind if you don’t understand the game yet, that can easily be learned. I don’t want people who declare themselves kings of pvp or players who are so focused on their own improvement they isolate themselves from the rest of the guild. I’d prefer the players who are happy running a little shop in a bustling marketplace. I’d prefer the players who think it’d be fun to make some crazy combat builds that are likely so bad they do negative DPS. I’m not here to have Crowfall tell me how I should enjoy the game, I’m here to discover in how many ways I can enjoy Crowfall. And if you’re of the same mindset, I’d love you in the Guild." If this sounds like you or an environment that you'd like to participate in, then please, reach out to us and say hello! Is Lion Forge Guild a ‘New Player Guild’? Technically? No. We are more then happy to teach new players the ropes within our guild and will always help find a guild that suits your style more then our own if you decide that -LFG- just isn’t for you. But ultimately we work as event coordinators and as an economy and light role-play focused group rather then an all-rounder or pvp centric ‘chasing the top’ type guild. How does a player contribute to the guild? By being active and participating. We appreciate our gatherers and our crafters who have clear ‘this is how you benefit the group’ roles, but we don’t expect our players to just do one thing all the time. That sort of thinking is ridiculous. Contributions can be made to the group in a multitude of ways, gathering curiosities from bosses, scouting out maps and marking interesting locations or resource points, helping new players in general chat, or even just hanging around in the Bazaar and interacting with people doing shopping. And of course the typical gold/resource farming methods too. We don't want to look at players like resources, we want to see them as people worth being around and interacting with to have fun playing the game. How do I get in contact? Feel free to join our discord, just sign on the dotted line, comment on this thread, or reach out to any of our active members in game! Who knows, maybe clicking our friend Ferrous just to the left of this text might help ya out along your journey?
  5. Lore Version “It was an easy choice. To chase the secrets of the universe, to see worlds beyond the one of my birth. To walk with gods. To live, learn, and fight for countless lives. Or, I could face oblivion. Who could say no? Eternity, a small price to pay.” - Conn Agon Caelus, Founder Corvus Citadel is a bastion of knowledge, a grand library among the Eternal Kingdoms. It stands as a monument to our patron, Yaga, goddess of Knowledge, All things Known and Unknown, collector of souls. Our goal, nay our purpose, is to ease the passing of worlds by preserving their memory within these hallowed walls. All manner of myths, histories, and secrets may be found here. But heed our warning: knowledge is power and the right words in the wrong ear can shatter worlds or kill a god. The Corax Council, our leaders, convene in the Hall of Ravens, atop the Citadel. Guiding the Crowguard in war and sending their Seekers to worlds on the cusp of doom. Where the Seeker's white ravens soar, the council is watching, and the Crowguard’s legions are not far behind. Though our core tenets favor Yaga, and many of us are her crows, upon the mountain you will find temples to the other Moon gods. Malekai the Whisperer, venerated almost as much as Yaga, maintains a hidden temple rumored to contain untold secrets. Seek it out at your own risk, entry will not come cheap. Cults of Illara the Traveler and Kane the Ostracized can also be found among us. At the base of the mountain, visitors will be greeted by the Jackdaw Market. Offering for trade what resources and trinkets could be saved from dying worlds. If it can be made it can be found among our craftsman's stalls, just ask the nearest thrall if you need assistance. If you seek knowledge, artifacts, or to join us in our great purpose, the way to the Citadel is open. Practical Version Who are we? We’re a group of mature (mainly in age but also a little bit in personality) players ranging from hardcore to casual that enjoy tailoring our theme and interests to the game’s lore. While we’re not dedicated in-character role-players, we do like to keep a consistent theme. We’ll be theming around and supporting the Moon faction when appropriate. We're primarily based in North America and will be playing on the NA servers, but we are open to any interested in playing on said servers. Who should join us? We’re open to those interested in any aspect of the game with any level of commitment. Whether you traditionally consider yourself hardcore, casual, or something in between; if you want to help we can find a place for you. We like to have fun and don’t mind more casual players, but when it’s go time we like to be serious too. If you’re going to participate in our higher level strategy and organized campaign efforts we expect you to be able to follow orders when the time comes. We only have three general rules: 1. Respect your fellow players (aka Don’t be a prick) 2. Respect the chain of command when it it’s time to be serious 3. Absolutely no racist/sexist/homophobic/etc... insults or commentary How are we organized? Currently we’re maintaining a single guild, Corvus Citadel, but planning for the possibility to maintain multiple core guilds depending on any guild mechanics or limitations revealed later in the game's development. The Citadel's ranks are based on purpose: the Corax Council is our highest level leadership - they guide the citadel's overarching agenda. Seekers are guild's officers: commanding troops, managing logistics, and engaging in diplomacy with other guilds. The Crowguard is our core body that not only makes up our fighting strength but also handles the majority of our gathering and manufacturing. Most of our members will be found among the guard. We will be accepting sub-guilds interested in pledging to the Citadel, unfortunately as mechanics currently dictate they will have to join us within mechanical Corvus Citadel guild. Sub guilds will have the option of being placed into our command structure or keeping their own command as auxiliaries. While we’ll expect auxiliaries to accept some guidance and cooperate with the the rest of the Citadel’s forces, less organizational demands will be expected of them. Where can you find us in game? We'll be maintaining an Eternal Kingdom, "Corvus Citadel - The Jackdaw Market" (based around a Mountain Citadel plot), as a community hub open to all. Whether you come to trade, find information, or just to hang out, the door will always be open. Many of us are very crafting minded and we hope to build a thriving marketplace right at the entrance to the Citadel, making quick visits as convenient as possible for shoppers. As the above lore section implies, we will have a strong focus on the gods of the Moon, you’ll find a set of Cathedrals dedicated to them around the mountain. Finally... If any of this sounds interesting and you'd like to join our guild or pledge as a sub-guild you can hop in our discord and drop Duffy a private message indicating your intent or drop us an email at corvus.citadel@gmail.com, I will of course also answer any questions posted in this thread. Portions of our discord are open to the general public so if you just want to hang out and say hello (or eventually maybe do some trading), feel free to stop on by. If you have already talked to one of our officers about joining and have not yet received an invite, you can request an invite via our Guild Profile.
  6. FRIENDS WITH BENEFITS Do you want friends? People to play with? Need some ... benefits? [FWB] Friends With Benefits is recruiting for our small, highly active guild. We focus on small scale (5-15 player) PVP, gold farming, harvesting, and especially crafting. We have an EK with all of the essential amenities and plenty of space for additional cottages and vendor stalls for all your economic needs. Our eventual long term population goal is no more than 50 regularly active players, as this will be essential for defending keeps going forward with the new systems being implemented. We prune inactive players each week, and as such, our member total is reflective of our actual number of active guild members. Unlike some large guilds with many inactive members, you will quickly get to know our members, many of whom can provide gear, advice, and ... dare I say ... companionship! Our guild requires no application process, simply join in game by searching for FWB in the Social Tab (press P by default.) This will place you into the Initiate role. To become a full member, please join our discord and set your /nick nickname to your in game name, so we can add your to groups easier! Mention @Trueshot and you will receive your Member Benefits role to access the majority of our channels. We hope to provide a great small-scale experience in the Shadows (FvF) and occasionally the Dregs (GvG) when we are feeling extra spicy, and to help you achieve your harvesting and crafting goals! - Trueshot, guild leader of Friends With Benefits
  7. Unsere Gilde Riesenwuchs sucht nach sozialen Mitgliedern für Farming, Crafting und ab und zu auch World PvP! Wir sind eine kleine, familäre Gilde. Interesse? Schaut doch mal auf unserem Discord vorbei: https://discord.gg/v7Ex7F6y9M Wir sind anfängerfreundlich, hilfsbereit und suchen freundliche Mitstreiter. Unser aktuelles Projekt: Aufbau unseres Gilden-EK. So findet ihr uns: https://crowfall.com/de-DE/guilds/search?name=Riesenwuchs Anspechpartner für eure Bewerbung: Thambark (Gildenmeister), Masterofdears (Gildenarchitekt), Hishnik (Gildenmoderator) Wir freuen uns auf euch! - Thambark
  8. Die deutschsprachige Gilde Riesenwuchs sucht nach sozialen Mitgliedern für Farming, Crafting und World PvP! Wir sind aktiv auf Discord unterwegs: https://discord.gg/v7Ex7F6y9M Unser vorrangiges Ziel ist es, ein vollständiges Farm- und Craftingkonzept zu entwickeln und umzusetzen, um unsere Unabhängigkeit als Gilde zu wahren und uns für die gelegentlichen PvP-Aktionen zu rüsten. Aktuell sind wir beim Aufbau des Gilden-EK und freuen uns auf die Unterstützung bei der Mitgestaltung der Gilde. Wir sind anfängerfreundlich, hilfsbereit und suchen freundliche Mitstreiter. Interesse? Schaut doch mal auf unserem Discord vorbei: https://discord.gg/v7Ex7F6y9M So findet ihr uns: https://crowfall.com/de-DE/guilds/search?name=Riesenwuchs Anspechpartner für eure Bewerbung: Thambark (Gildenmeister), Masterofdears (Gildenarchitekt), Hishnik (Gildenmoderator) Wir freuen uns auf euch! https://imgur.com/ZBgicj4 https://imgur.com/ZBgicj4
  9. Bound by Oath, Sworn in Blood The Oathsworn are a collective of mature gamers. Playing competitively, but casually. We don't have requirements of hours played per week, or some exam to test your knowledge of the game. We respect that folks have a life, and Crowfall is indeed a game. We play to have fun, learn, and grow friendships. If you're looking to join our guild. We ask that you stay respectful of others, and simply enjoy the game. We are recruiting all walks of life, all playstyles, also noobs and veterans alike. If you have any questions, feel free to send me a message in game or here on the forums. You can also send a message to @Nuhallis or @Mazterj0587. We live by Wheton's Law. Simply "Don't be a D!ck". We take everything in stride, and keep things fun and simple. As we learn the game together we like to keep an open mind. As we engage in PvP activities, we keep a level head and leave the salt on the dinner table where it belongs. Every death is an opportunity to learn. Every success in a mission is a cause for celebration. Regardless of the day, we are ultimately here to have fun. Having fun is the goal. However our focus in game is to be totally self-sufficient through the various crafts, and to be able to respond to siege wars and help the Sun Faction win. Until we grow large enough and strong enough we aren't aiming to be major competitors in The Dregs (Guild vs Guild). Our Eternal Kingdom has a lot to offer. We have many large buildable areas including an Imperial Palace on a Caldera parcel. The EK will be the home of events, both in PvP sparring/arena/tournaments, and also in RP should we have members looking to participate. Also we have Officially Licensed Crowfall shirts! A portion of the profits goes to ArtCraft Entertainment to help develop the game further! ~Fin~
  10. We are focused on crafting and advanced our economic might with the keeps and leveling our structures. Pooling resources and knowledge to advance our team. "Moon", US East 1. We have plenty of space to set up your own vendor in our Eternal Kingdom. - "Corporium Trade and Crafting"
  11. Prends ton arme et ta pioche, camarade Tu aimes l'odeur de la bouse d'Auroch au petit matin ? Tu dors avec ta pioche et tu manges avec ta dague ? DAMN recrute des combattants et des crafteurs motivés pour suer au labeur et défendre sa couenne ensemble. Pas de pré-requis à l'entrée, pas d'obligation hormis la bonne humeur et l'envie de partager et de jouer ensemble. Panthéon : Kronos (Earth) Recrutement : ouvert On cause : en French Viens donc nous parlez sur discord ici : https://discord.gg/XKN2359Z
  12. Looking for a fun social guild to join? Then consider Unicorn! Currently we don't have a specific goal, other then making friends and enjoying Crowfall. So if you want to play the game with friends, and you yourself don't yet know where you're are going, Unicorn may just be the guild for you. We can hang out and learn the game together, and if we get good...DOMINATE THE WORLDS. But yeah, for now lets focus on having fun. We'll paint the map with Unicorn tags later. Feel free to ask questions here or in game. You can reach me @Farskye, or feel free to put in an app in game.
  13. I would like to see a more in-depth crafting and gathering system. Not something like WoW's "get the profession skill level to x amount, gather x amount of materials, craft" or the more Korean MMOs where it's super RNG of "random chance to succeed or fail, or random chance to proc or even get the correct craft." MMOs like WoW or Final Fantasy had the simple crafting and gathering system. All you needed was to grind your profession skill to the level you needed, usually max to even remotely make a profit. For gathering you then turned on your tracker and find nodes to gather from. Crafting you either went to the Auction House or also leveled up a gathering profession to get your materials. Then you just craft what you need. No chance of failure, no proc'ing high quality items etc. Extremely simple. Then you have Korean MMOs like Aion and ArcheAge were extremely RNG based. You still had the same grind your profession skill, but then you had a RNG chance to fail. That percentage got higher the higher your skill was but it was still all random. Then they even added the RNG based proc system. In Aion, you had a random chance to proc a higher quality item. The percentage chance would get higher if you got higher quality materials, but it was again still random. In ArcheAge, the RNG went so far as to give you a random version of the item. You need Illustrious Ocean Tunic but RNG gave you an Illustrious Volcano Tunic? Well out of luck, start your entire craft over and hope RNJesus blesses you. I'd like to see a more in-depth type crafting system. Where you have to use knowledge, analysis, and planning to get what you want. For example, say you're a farmer. Being able to understand soil fertility, irrigation, and crop seasons will yield higher quality and more of that crop than if you didn't. So say someone that's better skilled at farming would get four normal sized pumpkins and two large pumpkins while someone less skilled would get three normal sized pumpkins only. Being able to check the soil's fertility and understand what kind of crops could be grown on that soil. You wouldn't plant tropical crops in temperate soil. Also being able to irrigate your land would yield to healthier crop and better growth. If there's a season system in game, planting crops in their ideal seasons would also be needed. You wouldn't be planting crops in the middle of winter. Or a carpenter being able to select the finest wood quality and knowing what type of wood is best for what. For example, a skilled carpenter would be able to know to use yew for bows compared to cedar and be able to tell the quality of the wood and whether that specific piece is usable or not. A carpenter would have to select wood pieces that are strong and can bend. You'd need to pick the right size of wood to get a long bow vs short bow. Using higher quality pieces of wood would result in higher quality bows. And not just using HQ Yew Lumber vs just Yew Lumber, but actively being able to determine it's quality. I feel like this would put an interesting emphasis on skill in crafting and gathering.
  14. For anyone who ventures in here who is an alumni like me from SWG, it turns out a pretty solid guild is forming here (no name yet but soon!). We're crafting enthusiasts (and I'm a former city mayor/entertainer/droid crafter) and excited about other aspects of the game, and while PvP is a big part of that, it's simply not like the be-all, end-all for us. We're more interesting in building than destroying . All the same, it's the sandbox elements that drew us to Crowfall and if you're looking for someplace and it sounds like you're on the same page as us, feel free to stop by and say hi! There are a lot of guilds who have pre-built infrastructures from prior games, too. We're building that foundation from the ground up here, and all pretty much new friends because of the allure of Crowfall. Jump to lightspeed. Chewie, hit it! Edit: Our guild shifted into a newer one, link below in my sig!
  15. Introduction / Context It is very common in MMORPGs to use mounts as an item of convenience for travel in the game world (The cost of this tool would usually be an upfront ingame currency cost and later on it would take up one slot in your inventory to keep with you). The mount could be summoned by clicking it and would be disabled when entering combat. In summary, they were personal player transportation. In my experience, I wanted mounts to be more than a player movement boost. Animals can be fast, but they can also be strong, and they can be actors in a player's game experience. Note that when I am talking about Mounts in this post, I am referring to individual player mounts which a single player can use whenever he likes, not instanced NPC mounts that a player has no direct control over. Using Mounts in other aspects of the game When I talk about expending the function of Mounts I am thinking about two categories: Crafting & Combat. How could you use Mounts in crafting? I first think of transportation, but not player transportation. What if mounts were a requirement for hauling a large amount of items (Think "Mining" and transporting big heavy rocks). If you can picture a traveling merchant riding his dwarf horse carrying his wares (Weapons, armor, potions), or a mining expedition with 4 players walking with two Ox carrying heavy loads of ore then you can probably see what I am talking about. A second Mount function could be crafting itself. What if players could use work animals (Mounts) to farm. Players would be able to being an extended process of "Get Work Animal", "Go to land", "Break Soil using Mule", "Seed", "Harvest". Consumables obtained through farming would come in high enough quantity to make "farming" crafting less monotonous. Third function could be player travel. This is either a "mounts make you too fast" or a "gimp to player character movement to make mounts desirable for travel". Another way to implement Mounts as player travel could be giving "wild" areas (Far from player settlements) "rough terrain" which makes walking through them slower on foot, but "comfortably fast" when riding a Mount. Travel Mounts would be used for moving from one settlement to another while not being a "zip through city on my scooter all the time since it makes me faster all the time". Fourth function, use them for gathering (Similar to "Farm" function). You get a "boar" and he can find "Truffles" and hint their location to you on the map (Whether "Truffles" are visible at all with or without a boar is another topic). A hunter/gather would use snazzy medium sized "Mounts" to get resources. Your "boar" could easily be a dog, bird, cat, or whatever. Mounts adding to the Combat Experience Mounted combat can be fun, but it does bring its own set of questions. Not every player wants to fight on horseback all game long, some players enjoy fighting on foot. Mounted Combat should not make foot combat unviable. How should Mounted Combat be handled to make it a fun addition to the game while not being a requirement that alienates players who do not have access to combat mounts and players who dislike fighting on mounts? I do not have much to add to "Mounted Combat", so I will not pretend to "know what I am talking about". Mount Maintenance and Mount Mortality Mounts are resources of convenience, and if possible resources of requirement (Look back at Crafting section of this post), how often should players obtain Mounts, and how often should they lose them IF AT ALL to another player, or to the black hole (Deleted). Mounts were very visually distinctive in other games (Elephants, Boars, Dragons, Machines, Birds), and flashy (Lots of colors of the rainbow), so losing a mount like could feel unfair. And if Mounts were as useful as this post suggests, getting one Mount and then not having to ever get a second forever can feel a little bland and cheap, in the same way that getting a mount and having another player steal it from you can feel horrible since now you have to fork out cash/effort to acquire another mount. If it were up to me (It's not), I'd try to push for Mounts to be a resource just like Weapons would be in a weapon decay system. You get them, they cost money/effort to get, you eventually lose them, get a new one rinse and repeat. I think this game will turn out to favor looting important stuff from players, so items should be something you can afford to lose. Mount Storage My initial idea is stables. But stables bring problems very similar to housing (Not enough game world space for all the thousands of players), the safest route for this would definitely be instanced stables so players can keep one of their mounts (Not more than one) for whenever they need it. If players happened to own more than 1 because they intend to sell them, there could be other ways to store those in "faction" storage areas (And hopefully enable the possibility of that property being "borrowed without asking"). Obtaining Mounts The following thread talks about a way to make this fun. It is an animal husbandry suggestion. http://community.crowfall.com/index.php?/topic/1077-animal-husbandry-the-crafting-profession/ Summary By making Mounts an item of convenience and utility (Crafting, Travel, Combat, Resource, Transportation) I think the "crafting scene" would be a lot more interesting, and by making crafting more interesting, PvP folk could easily benefit from this (Having Mounts be resources lets players steal Mounts as if they were weapons or armor).
  16. Welcome, as of today and until further notice this is THE Crowfall mining thread, where we discuss mining, underground peril, and buried valuables. Naturally we will be talking about the newly revealed voxel farm technology, and we will be sharing ideas, good or bad, on how to make a fun and dirty mining experience for the average player. Naturally, everything we speculate will be friendly suggestions for the Devs *wink* *wink*. I will be dividing the initial discussion into sub topics in order to make this as easy to read as possible. Sadly though, I can't find the "anchor" code for the index, so you'll have to scroll down for the time being. Also, don't get scared by my lengthy mess, you can read one section and respond to that while ignoring the others, we must all contribute our opinions so the Devs can see into our hearts. Don't shut up, I want to make mining a popular activity. Index: 1) Voxel Tech and Resource Distribution 2) Character Fatigue 3) Tools and Infrastructure 4) Availability and Mobility 1) Voxel Tech and Resource Distribution Ores, just like any other resource, will be distributed on a procedurally generated map. Resources distributed on a terrain that was created through algorithms, is most conveniently distributed through algorithms. The potential problems and concerns that come with this method are fairness, activity variety, and freedom of location. Fairness. Resources, in this case ores, should be distributed in a manner where players have relatively equal opportunity to find and extract basic ores. I don't see any immediate flaws in this aspect when it comes to a procedural distribution though. Activity variety. The process of mining should be a varied and engaging. While the classic raise mining pick, dig, repeat is a fair start, I would appreciate a more complex activity that takes the form of a project, and an individual or collective investment. After the initial layer of mining, ores are gathered, the land is barren of wealth, the players wish to acquire more but do not wish to hunt for another location. The most desired course of action is to dig deeper, a second layer of ores are waiting to be found, but they are outside of the miner's reach. Now our mining friends must begin constructing tunnels, ladders, and perhaps carts to go deeper and deeper into the earth to plunder its riches. Now miners have a lot more different stuff to think about, the construction of infrastructure to extract more riches, as well as doing some good old fashioned picking. I will continue the talk about mine construction in "Tools and Infrastructure". Freedom of location. Can we dig anywhere or will Devs slap our qrists if we choose the wrong spot? How limited should digging spots be in order to balance the intensely powerful power of mining. Freedom is nice, but we don't want mining to dominate the economy. Plus, PvPers need to join in on the fun, I mean steal all my stuff. 2) Character Fatigue Mining can be a very rewarding economic activity. So rewarding that a player may consider, no...tempted to, no...be unable to stop mining without rest. Mining turned to grinding. An infamous aspect of the harvesting MMORPG profession. What problems does this bring to Crowfall and its denizens? The player gets bored. The economy grows too fast. Wait, aren't resources in Crowfall supposed to be PvP property? No one likes limits, me included. But I want to talk about limits, limits that will encourage the maintenance of mining facilities, limits that will ensure the market doesn't become overly saturated with resources from one dude mindlessly picking for hours on end, limits that will make PvP a primary factor in resource ownership. A valve, a switch that will control sucking the land dry and allow time for RP and PvP, heck, even time for other crafting professions. Should characters be limited to a certain amount of resource extraction? Should it be a hard limit? Should it be a soft limit? (Debuffs that reduce Strength, debuffs that increase chance of extraction failure, debuffs which weaken hitpoints) This is a topic that heavily cripples one player or the other depending on the decision, should crafters be given the ability to extract significant amounts of resources? Is the danger of being totally robbed enough to limit their greedy activities? I think the idea of characters getting tired is fun. 3) Tools and Infrastructure Continuing from item #1. When digging below the earth, the subterranean, players must construct artificial corridors and pockets in order to squeeze between the rocks and rob nature of her loot. How expensive should such infrastructure be? How much material should corridors require? How long should corridors take to build? How long will it take to transport lumber to a mine to construct the shafts? Materials and time are the two resources which restrict mine construction, while they grant access to more ore quantity, and quality, how long should it take for players to mold, break, and manipulate the terrain? Should players be able to take down rock with the touch of their finger, or should it take a solid amount of picking, and some darn good luck for the rock to give in? Should some rockbeds be impervious to low quality mining picks? Should resources be locked behind a tech barrier which can only be opened through economic progression? I personally hope that the process of digging deeper is a lengthy and laborious one, it adds meaning for the crafting showoff, a timing window for the loot-thirsty ganker, and a buffer for the growth of the player economy, which does not wish to become strong until much later in the Campaign. The economy is much more fun when everyone is piss poor. I became infatuated with the idea of mining because of Wakfu, a small Sandbox MMORPG which had an interesting mining mechanic. Mining nodes were hidden behind rocks which players had to break using bombs in order to access higher quality nodes. These bombs required rare resources, making rock breaking (The equivalent of mining in Wakfu) an expensive and valuable action. Because it took a variable amount to take down layers of rocks depending on how thick they were, breaking rocks took a little more thinking than normal to get the most mineral node access for your money (Bombs). I would like to see a similar resource access dynamic in Crowfall, where we work hard and intelligently to dig, dig, and profit. 4) Availability and Mobility Mostly the same talk in the previous item. How easy should it be to take apart the voxel world? I want the terrain in Crowfall to be friggin hard, not Minecraft's liberal displacement of matter. Characters should be limited by their [im]mortal body, a puny humanoid cannot take down mountains and yell timber, it takes many Termites to take down a tree, and likewise should it takes many characters to carve and shape the land. When mining underground, players shouldn't be progressing that quickly. But don't take me wrong, neither should they progress too slowly. My idea is this, hit the deck, the nutjob has an idea. Make the bedrock, the layers, harder to access, through soft and hard limits, as the player reaches deeper levels of underground goodness. The initial digging shouldn't be like digging knife into hot butter though. Let's make the players work for it, and as they dig deeper, it gets increasingly harder, even impossible if you chose a bad spot. Mining should be about effort, luck, and critical thinking. Should I mine here in the plains where I won't find much and will probably reach a dead end? Or should I craft in the mountains where there is harder level for entry but have the chance to coem across a concealed twisted cavern entrance? I want some hard rock. I want strong burly characters to be the miners. Grrr. Mobility. Rocks are heavy. I say we use Caravans with personal player Mounts. That's right, shameless self promotion. Just like we have seen in the Caravan concept art banner in the Economy update, we want beasts of burden to do our job and to keep us company, and to steal. Why must is always be stolen? I can feel the rush.
  17. so since i opened this threat with my initial suggestions,i added a lot more,on the following pages you will find suggestions for craft able currency,EK gameplay,a system of procreation,a system of crafting that allows players to invent their own stuff and a lot more. so if you are interested in some crazy ideas i advise you to read everything,if you have the patience to sit through the immense wall of text that is going to hit you^^ introduction: In the last few years I've been thinking,that the MMO genre lacks something,and with time i came to the conclusion its the lack of change itself. Their worlds are static,thats is because they don't provide any basic mechanisms that would allow for something like a virtual society to form,which would, through the occurrence of various kinds of problems and hardships,adapt to these and naturally result in an ever changing ingame society,with its own values and its own economic system. I hope you'll muster the patience to read the following ideas until the end,i promise it is worth the hassle^^ An economic system isn't just selling stuff you grinded,at some npc shop with a never changing price,even the action house,with the changing prices is only the tip of the iceberg. An economic system is the sum of possibilities for an individual to make a living or better said,sustain its own existence,and if done right improve said existence,within the bounds of the environment it lives in. For that reason it is essential to have ''lack/scarcity'' in the world,lack of everything,lack of resources which are crucial,lack of regulations,rules and norms and lack of mercy,regarding negative feelings(frustration,anger) for the player. An example to make it more understandable. If we take a look at the origin of civilizations you can see a clear schema. Where did people start to settle down and decided to become sedentary?Well i think everyone knows the answer,its where they had fertile land and access to water,because those were the most basic and important resources you needed to make settled communities even possible. With time those needs change,in correlation to the situation a society lives in,again an easy example. Lets say in our hypothetical game,the first towns and cities with its guilds,which rule over the different territories,have been established. Lets assume one of those guilds/nations has hit a wall regarding its own development,because they lack some resource,product or service which they need to sustain or enhance their living standard. But their neighbor got plenty of that resource,product or service.Now there are 2 ways for this to go,either the nation in need,declares war on it's neighbor,to claim what it needs with force or they cooperate,which we would know as trade. No matter which of these ways they choose,it leads to an adaption in both societies. If its war,the nations will be in need of fighting equipment,not just equipment,but also the resources they need to make that equipment,but they'll also be in need of manpower itself,either for soldier or as skilled crafters,which would grant them a technological advantage. If they should trade,each of their societies will slowly focus on what it is good at,keep what it needs of those abundant goods,products or services for itself and trade the rest for the goods,products and services it lacks,ultimately leading to an increase of the net product,thus improving the living standards for every member of these communities. Lets take a closer look at basic resources,and how it could be implemented in a game. Resources: The key for a realistic,uneven but still kinda controlled distribution of resources is PROBABILITY. Lets assume we got several continents,each continent would have its own repertoire of possibly occurring resources. Each continent is,like we know it from more or less every other MMO,divided in several smaller regions,like westfall or stranglethorn in WoW. Also as we know it such regions are further divided into little districts,as example WoWs westfall again,with its watchtower,the different farms and so on. So for each of these ''administrational units'' you got probabilities for the occurrence of every resource. If a resource spawns or not is then calculated for every graphical unit,pixels,voxels or whatever you want to call them and for all neighboring graphical units the probability for the resource to spawn again is increased. This would simulate what we know as forests,seas and rivers but also ore deposits,which wriggle deep through the mountains,to make it short every accumulation of resources. I highly recommend a game world that makes use of all 3 dimensions,like it is done in EQ Landmark,it isn't absolutely necessary but it would highly improve realism,improve immersion for the player and furthermore serves actual practical purpose,since resources could occur not only on the surface,but also underground,like we know it from RL. In the real world there isn't some kind of fancy stone sticking out of the floor,which you can smash your pickaxe in,harvest it and then it is just gone and you have to look for the next shiny stone sticking out of the floor.... Experience shows that you've got regions(mountains),which are primarily composed out of stone,which comprises a high concentration of some kind of ore inside. As i said before,scarcity of resources is important,because it is the most basic motivation,at least until we manage to implement a mechanic of procreation,to do something. But how should we imagine this in our hypothetical game? I wouldn't mind having rich starting regions,perfect for settlement,comparable to regions like mesopotamia or the Nil-delta. Plenty of water and fertile land,maybe some district with a mountain with an average profit -yielding tier 1 ore deposit. Would seem like a perfect place to settle,since every player would be able to easily gather the stuff he needs at the start of his journey. And since everyone thinks so,the place will soon be crowded with bases/homes of different people. Since there are so many players gathering at one place,people will soon realize that this is a good place to make money. And of course they will look for the one way that brings them most efficiently to their set goals,while sustaining their existence. As example,lets assume our soon-to-be town has a big demand for copper and a little less demand on leather. So just from an economical standpoint,it would be advisable to earn money by gathering copper. But of course there are still other things to consider,like what do you want to be in the future. Maybe you want to be a class wearing leather-armor,so even though you would probably earn more money by selling copper,you would be able to work for your goal as adventurer,while at the same time earning money,though a little less,by selling leather. so as i concluded with this example,having such comfortable starting areas isn't just tolerable,because of kindness to players,but even advisable and a crucial part of such a game. With time any needs that existed before, will be satisfied until new needs arise and naturally those needs can't all be satisfied by the given circumstances,either because resources aren't available in the region,or maybe there is no crafter skilled enough to produce what is needed and in turn even more not available resources are needed to train the existing crafters. It will be a circle of demands for not available but needed resources,products and services which will motivate the players to go out of their comfortable home town,into harsher regions,plagued by scarcity and not as much diversity regarding resources as the starting regions. the higher the tier of a resource the scarcer it should be and the harsher the regions have to be,it is mainly located in. what exactly do i mean when i write ''harsh''?Well i would define it as follows... It should be the opposite of what i described above as perfect starting area,that would mean,no or only a little source of water,no fertile land,not any kind of basic resource you would need to maintain a town and of course mobs,and im not speaking about wolves or normal wild animals like that,which you would meet in the starting regions,im talking about BAMs and the likes of it and plentiful of them. The only reason someone would settle in such a region would be high enough profits,because of high demand and low supply. And since the settlement wouldn't survive for long on its own,supply routes will be established,but with all these high level mobs lurking around i doubt those caravans will be safe... To be precise not only mobs,but players aswell,i think everyone can easily imagine those caravans being a ripe target for robbery... We see a problem for a certain group of players arises,and as i said at the beginning,with a problem arising,people will always search for a solution. Most easy way i can imagine right now,would be to hire players to keep the supply roads clear and guard the caravans on their way and just like this a new job is born,a job perfect for those that don't want to craft, gather or trade,a job made for those players that mainly want to bash heads in,in all various forms. In fact we even witness 2 kinds of occupations being born,first was the thief or thug and as response a job of a guard will be established. Laws,Good and Evil: This brings me to my next important point,which would be the law. It is essential for any community to establish morals and over time laws to keep an order that is desired,because of various reasons of economical nature. So whoever governs a territory has to be able to enact laws,and if players break these laws they have to fear consequences,like bounties on their heads,being imprisoned,having their property confiscated or being banished from all territories owned by this governing body. This will lead to the establishment of law enforcers,players that get hired by the governing body to enforce the laws enacted by them. So as we can conclude of this,a pvp system was born through the implementation of distinction between ''good'' and ''evil'',right or wrong or legal and illegal,motivated by various economical reasons. To make broaden the view of what could be established as laws i will make use of another example. Maybe there will be a town which is leaded by a combat orientated guild,because the service of combat brings good money and the members like bashing heads in. To train their members more efficiently they may approve or even encourage the pvp within their territories,so it would be lego to attack and maybe even kill other players,at the same time they would probably enact a law that forbids theft and stripping of corpses. Or another example,a thief guild, would maybe approve of theft and sabotage within their territories,to improve the skills of its members. We can clearly see how the law is motivated by economical reasons. Crafting: As i mentioned scarcity is the key to development,but its not enough to just limit raw materials,the service of refining those raw materials has to be scarce aswell,the scarcity of the skill to refine raw materials,combined with the scarcity of these materials leads in turn to product scarcity,scarcity in all stages of the value chain. It is essential that the crafting job is hard,it should be something really special and sought after to have a really skilled crafter. Basically it should be possible to craft everything with one character,no limited selection of your crafting occupation,but it should be nearly impossible to actually get every crafting skill on maximum.With this it should be encouraged to focus on one crafting tree sainted of being a jack of all trades. Well we also have that kind of work sharing in WoW and other similar games,but there is one basic problem,that is,the raw material is of the most value and with every refining process the value decreases until at last the crafter itself is the most worthless. A realistic crafting system has to be hard,not just hard in the form of takes a lot of monotone gathering for hours,but actually be hard because you can't monotonously gather for hours,since raw materials are rare and to buy them is expensive. Furthermore the probability factor should also play a a role in crafting,in combination with trial and error learn experience. There shouldn't be recipes for purchase or thrown after you at any occasion and only with those recipes you can craft stuff... I don't want to prohibit the existence of recipes,in fact they should exist,but massively decrease the supply of it. It should be the norm to just find out new recipes with the trial and error principle. Give the crafter slots for different components,like raw materials,basic design,maybe something like runes,substances or some other component which could fit the thing i imagined to create and let probability decide if something useful comes out of it,and if something useful came out of it,what exactly it is in the end. And after people created something in this manner,they can write down their own recipe and use it in the future for themselves,without having to remember what exactly they had done to create this product forever,not only that,they would be able to sell it in infinite amounts,just aslong as they have enough paper to write it on. Also the crafting system should allow you to improve every aspect of the crafting,no mater how little. Lets assume you ''invented'' some kind of axe,using the trial and error principle. you write down the recipe and craft those axes in high quantities now,lets assume for every axe you need an axe head and an haft. Those aren't raw materials,so you actually need to produce an axe head and the haft before you can produce the axe. So you produce some of those 2 components,crafting those axe heads improves your skill in axe head crafting and the same with the hafts.This in turn increases the probability to generate better stats of the components(improving quality),which in turn improves the overall stats of the end product,thats is made up by these components.Of course there is also a skill for the crafting of the axe itself,so the better components are combined with the better stats for your axe crafting skill,thus leading to quite a wide range of qualities for seemingly the same product,in the end even if 2 crafter got the exactly the same level of skills and produce the same product,it will still vary from each other,because of probability based calculation of stats in each processing step. Physical presence: What exactly do i mean with physical presence? To make it short,every process of the game has to be represented in physical form,as part of the game world. An easily understandable example will show clearly what i mean by this. The message/delivery system of WoW has no physical presence,you buy something in the auction house and suddenly you got it in your mail,furthermore you can access your mail at everywhere,as if all mailboxes were magically linked to each other.... Lets keep going with this certain example,how would it work in our hypothetical game? The offered goods in the auction house should be regionally different,the auction house shouldn't have the same goods in their repertoire,if they are miles and miles apart from each other. As soon as you buy something,it should be delivered,via caravans, to the mailbox of your choice(your home,guild hall,etc.). And of course,as i wrote it before,caravans can be targeted by mobs and players. Lets continue this thought process and apply it to one of most basic parts of every MMO,that would be the flow of information. In the example with the auction house we can see what i mean with that exactly.The information of some item being offered in one auction house,naturally isn't available for the auction house in another region. If there is something like a bank,it should also be regional,how should they know whats in your safe in some far away region,moreover how should you be able to access those things? Personally i can only imagine some crazy quantum physics stuff going on in those games,displaying such things like universally accessible mailboxes,auction houses,bank deposits and any other kind of information... Trade & Finances: Most games offer a trading system between players,which enables them to trade goods in exchange for another good,instead of trading a good in exchange for money,but the most common payment is after all money. Thats because there is an infinite amount of money in those worlds,the money just gets magically generated when players sell something at the vendor... So basically the point of scarcity also applies here,money shouldn't exist from the beginning,only the possibility to mint coins should exist,with this money becomes just another resource,hat can be gathered like any other resource. As a result the law of supply and demand also applies,which will create the concept of inflation and deflation for different currencies,used by different communities with ever changing player made exchange rates. With the scarcity of an universal medium of exchange,bartering will take on a much more important role,but it shouldn't be only the exchange of goods for goods,but also an exchange of goods for services,services for money,in short everything should be tradeable for everything,as long as both parties agree to it,that is. When we talk about finances we can't ignore taxes,fees,loans and interest. Lets begin with the concept of taxes.If someone,may it be an individual or a collective entity,owns a territory,it should be free to them how high or low they set the tax rate for it. When will the taxes come due,you may ask? Well first there needs to be a distinction between 3 kinds of taxes,which would be taxes payed in goods,taxes payed in coins and taxes payed with services. I'll give an example for each of these ways to pay taxes,starting with the most easy one,taxes payed in coins. On every transaction involving money,taxes come due,the price will be directly calculated in regard to the set tax rate. Lets assume a player owns a town shop,he sells copper ingots for 1 gold/ingot,the governing body of the city set tax rates to 25%,so the final price for one copper ingot will be 1,25 gold. The tax regarding coins as i described it,should be universal,its should concern everyone,at anytime,if a transaction of money takes place. Whereas the tax payed in goods or services is different,since they don't take place whenever goods or services are exchanged,since that would be rather difficult to implement into a game... If i trade 1 pig in exchange for one chicken,both players would have to give up 1/4 of each of these animals?would be kinda weird.... Instead it will come due at fixed dates,like at the end of the day,week or month. The governing body should be able to set the deadlines and the amount that has to be delivered of every good and service as tax. That way they could encourage or discourage players to establish certain business branches. An example regarding paying in goods. Lets assume we play a soon-to-be crafter and shop owner and we haven't decided on what we want to focus just yet,in our home town the deadline and tax rate for copper ingots is set to 5 ingots/day,whereas the tax rate for wool is set to 20/week(we also assume that both resources are more or less equally available),we can easily conclude that players will tend to make their living in a flourishing wool industry,since the tax on it isn't too much,compared to copper. The payment of taxes in services would be similar.a character that chose to pay his taxes with a certain service will have to do that service at set times,at set places for a set amount of time. Another example will serve us for better understanding. We decided to pay our taxes with military service in the name of our governing body.We would be assigned to a certain task,which will in this case involve combat,and we'll have to do it until the set deadline is over,or maybe even at a certain time,if our task is part of an even greater strategical plan. Or maybe the service we provide is crafting,but we decided to not pay it in a crafted good,but with the service itself,in this case the service would be ''delivered'' at the guild hall/towncenter/HQ for a set duration of time,the goods are produced out of resources and components,which are provided by the governing bodys deposit,gathered through taxes,and every good produced in that set duration will become property of the governing body. Both of these ways to pay taxes would be fixed with the help of a quest-like contract system. Fees for the use of crafting stations of other players(crafting shops) will be payed however the owner of the crafting station wants it,according to the allowed kinds of fees,set by the governing body. It could occur that the governing body of a territory disables the possibility to pay fees with certain resources,the owner mustn't be able to set that resource as fee then,or if he does,he is traget of law enforecement.Of course there should always be an alternative possibility to pay the fees with coins. The different tax rates in different communities will lead to what we know in the real world as tax competition between nations and the different fees for the same kind of crafting shop,will lead to competition between the shops of players. This will probably lead to dumping of fees and tax rates,in response to that,business branches will establish organizations to set agreements,which are of benefit for all competitors in that branch. As example the first shops open up in a town,there are four tier 2 wood crafting stations,at the beginning the fees will be quite high,until one of them starts to lower his fees,to attract all the customers,which will result in the next one lowering his fees even more and so on,until the fee is 1% or something like that,effectively bringing no money for any of those 4 owners. So they will,if they possess intelligence,communicate with another and form some kind of organization,may it be official or just an unofficial one,and come to an agreement that no one in their group sets their fees lower than 20%,to prevent endless dumping. If someone decides to take on a stubborn stance,there should be the possibility to out-do competitors with force,by hiring thugs,saboteurs,thieves and so on,naturally the other side ha stye possibility of hiring players to protect him,his shop,his house,his caravans. Loans and interest rates are the last part of the topic finances. Well its easy to imagine,given that the players have the ability to draw up contracts in a quest-like manner,thats giving out loans and taking loans is possible. the contract would look somewhat like this,player A borrows x amount of money for an interest rate of x%/day,week,month,and finally a deadline for the runtime of the loan. Someone not repaying a loan becomes a PvP target,even in safe zones,for the one they owe the money.That person cannot only target the debtors and his property,as if he were a criminal,he can also hire other players to settle the score and collect the debt,if he isn't able to do so himself, and give them the right to target the debtor in his name,again bound by a quest-like contract system. This is the first part of my suggestions,it is pretty late and i can't successfully organize and verbalize my thoughts any longer,so I'll leave it at that for the moment,i think you all get the basic idea,the quint-essence of all these suggestions with the given examples. the principle of action and reaction driven by needs,creating an ever changing development. update points of interest: Even if the map is open for exploration,there shouldn't be fixed and permanent points of interest,neither strategic points nor economical points. Give the players the chance to not just explore an unknown map,but also let them discern between valuable places,that are worth operating and fortifying in an organized manner. and places that aren't. If there is a region that has high amount of a certain valuable resource at practically all times,because the coded probabilities for that region make it so,the players will be able to see that and they will adapt to it and make use of it,they will maybe make little camps for storage there and before you know it,you got something like a town,not because someone said,settle there,but because of the collective sum of individual strives for profits.everything else,like governing body and such will just develop naturally because a need arises to establish it,not because its the goal per se. and with the strategic ones the same. there will be people with strategical and tactical talent,combined with topographical knowledge of the map. so they have all abilities they need to discern between places that are worth fortifying in an extreme manner(which should be rather costly and work intensive) and places that aren't worth it,because it wouldn't bring any kind of noteworthy advantage in a war. of course this points of interest will change,like everything else should,over time,as old problems and needs are solved and satisfied and new problems and needs arise. what would be an economical point of interest? well any kind of accumulated resource,but even more so if its a resource with high demand. and with the probability calculation of resource spawn it would even be possible for such formerly rich deposits to deplete. lets assume,there is a 30% chance/Voxel for iron ore to spawn,preferable in all 3 dimensions,in a district of a region thats a mountain or something like that. so we can roughly estimate that 1/3 of this mountain will be made out of iron at all times,since the probability for the district won't change in the course of the game. But if you remember i also mentioned that the probability should the increased if there is a resource in an adjacent Voxel,so in fact there will probably be much more than just 1/3 of ore. but in return it would be actually possible for formerly rich mines to deplete,because every iron voxel was harvested so less iron is respawned and over time,if you repeat that process several times,the amount of iron in that district will regress more and more until its not worth operating it anymore,considering the fixed costs and other factors. and to come back to your specific suggestion,i don't think its a problem to do it like you suggested,can't even imagine that it would be hard to program such a thing and can't imagine any bad effects form it Update on currency: what i've seen in other threads there are 2 major problems people are concerned when we talk about a finite amount of money that is generated by crafting money. 1. problem: first one is the basic value of money,or generally any good,before there is something modifying that value,like supply and demand. that basic value of a good is determined by plain usefulness. any good we could barter with,has a practical use and thus got a base value,which is later modified by supply and demand. money doesn't have such a basic value,since it has no use per se,you can't eat it and fight your hunger,nor can you use it to craft anything thats would help you sustain your life in the long run,its just coins. when there is the possibility to just trade goods and services directly there is no use for something as money. But why did humankind even develop the concept of money then? Well the reason for that is,money got some major advantages over any other good. One is the matter of transport,you can transport much more money than you can transport pigs,stones,wood and so on. if we have a weighed based inventory,which would be crucial overall to stimulate the use of caravans,money should be the only weightless good. the second is a matter of cost efficiency,to explain it properly an easy example: lets assume i raise pigs,i'll need a plot of land to raise them on,so that requires rent,i also need to build and sustain a barn and i also have to sustain the pigs(food,water),so i've got a lot of permanent costs.whereas the amount of money i got is just the amount of money i got,it's easy to calculate your ''profit and loss account''. last major advantage of money over other goods is the expiration date of any other good than money. lets continue our pig farm example: so i have raised my pigs and it costed me quite a lot thus far to bring them up,but anyway i can sell them for a reasonable price,which i calculated over profit and loss calculation(everyone learns that poorly made socks in school,heck if you think logically you can come up with that calculation by yourself,or use google-sensei),and ensures my price is still competitive. But at the end some of my pigs died before i was able to trade them for anything. those pigs would have caused permanent costs over a long time and in the end they didn't just bring you no profit,they didn't even cover for their caused costs. well of course that doenst mean an overall loss,since you can cover those costs with your profits from the trade of other goods,but its still less profit and its not a really reliable form of income,since you can't plan things accurately.and this gets even worse because the good you traded your pigs for also got an expiration date and may also cause permanent costs. this makes planning a business in the long run nearly impossible,since the overall income can vary greatly because of that. living things would obviously die from hunger,thirst and eventually death by aging. ores and ore related goods would corrode,maybe there could also exist alloys which are resistant to corrosion to a certain extend. wood would have a long durability,but should be heavier,maybe different types of wood,some lighter but with less durability and some heavier but longer durability. stone should have no expiration date,but is in turn really heavy. if you want to know about any man-made good produced out of any resource,take a look at my 2. post in this threat,it's about the sustainability of things. these are the major advantages i was speaking of,that only money has and that would give it a base value,because it has it's unique usefulness,like any other good has. but this is still not enough,since this was only the first and most basic problem. 2. problem: teh second problem is the flow of money and i think the answer is rather easy. the game needs to enable the simulation of the money circle. we need 3-4 parties for that to work. first party is someone harnessing gold/silver in an organized manner and thus is able to provide a more or less stable amount of gold/silver to mint into coins. the one minting them is the second party needed,it should be the governing body of a state,but it could also be possible for the state to take the role of the 1. party,thats why i wrote 3-4 parties above. the next party are the players that take the role of the financial sector aka the banks. they would keep an eye on the flow of money,the amount harnessed and minted,keep money safely storaged(craftable vaults),give out loans to promising businesses and generating profits for themselves and for their investors via interest rates for loans. and the last party is the sum of all players,that storage their money in a bank,take loans and pay them back+interest. combine this with an initial amount of money,owned by the few basic NPCs that exist and little amounts of gold dropped by humanoid mobs, would help to start up the flow of money right from start,without the immediate need to supply the players with minted gold. since this topic is rather complex i don't claim to have solved all the problems,there may be more problems coming with such a system that i haven't thought about yet,but i think its a good point to further think about it and maybe develop a useable system in the future Update on Eternal Kingdoms: As i see it now,the existing EK concept isn't really well received within the forum community. That is because the EK gameplay seems like nothing more than fancy type of housing,without any real meaning for the overall game. For that reason i would like to present my suggestion here to make it more meaningful. I mentioned a Nil-Delta scenario in this Threat,which would stimulate the early formation of communities,because this places would provide the a lot of food and water,while being located in more or less safe regions(no strong mobs). I also said that,eventually those early towns will reach the limit of what is doable with resources surrounding them in those fertile regions,because they need resources that aren't found there,to sustain the status quo. So this will force players to venture outside,into yet unknown regions,regions which aren't nearly as fertile,safe and diverse in resources,which will force them to develop and expand even more and so forth,its and never ending circle of adaption. So why not make those fertile starting lands the Eternal Kingdom,and to further develop or at least sustain your state in the eternal kingdom,you would need to venture out into the other worlds,gather resources there,gather unique items or something other that could profit your state in the EK. The point is,interaction between EK and other worlds has to be possible. What i mean with that is,no limits to resource transformation or equipment or whatever,the EK should be the base,the center of your guild,the other worlds are there to improve your situation in EK. And of course there needs to be some form of PvP in EK. Maybe not direct wars between nations,like in the dying worlds,but maybe something like my aforementioned contract system. lets assume 2 guilds form a PvP contract. They enter a competition between them over territory in EK,whoever wins in a set campaign gets a set territory of the other party. personally i would like to see the same kind of PvP in EK as in the dying worlds,war without declaration and the need to accept it and so on. this would give the EK meaning,because if theres no point in owning anything in the EK to begin with,then all interaction between EK and dying worlds is no use,because the base motivation is missing. There have to be various kinds of motivation and reasons for wanting to become strong in the EK,pvp has to be possible like in the other worlds,but as i said before i don't like the concept of doing pvp out of the sake of pvp,i prefer to have pvp,because i have an economical motivation to do pvp. So please Dev team,if you want the EK to be more than just fancy housing,you have to make the EK gameplay center of the overall gameplay,it has to be the connecting point between all the other worlds. The eternal kingdom has to be the reason why you do your poorly made socks,whatever it may be,in the dying worlds so to make it clear how i imagine EK and dying worlds. both of them should have the same kind of basic mechanism is described,the societies should in both worlds base on the same gameplay mechanics,so if we assume they implement al my suggestions,then don't do it only for the dying worlds or only for EK but for both equally. And the only difference between EK and dying worlds should be that EK is eternal,while the dying worlds are not. But this brings the Devs back to the SB problematic. that would be stalemate in the game,because someone became so powerful they just nuked everyone before they could pose any threat. Well my whole concept had the goal t prevent just that,my whole concept was based on never ending change and adaption,so there would never be a stalement,because even the strongest always have some attackable and useable weakness. but let me introduce 3 main points,which are important to make it possible to break a hegemony. 1.random events as i mentioned them already.big mob armies appearing in the lands or natural disasters,in addition to the already existing massive administrative effort to govern such a big nation,could weaken and distract a powerful nation heavily. 2.there mustn't be something like the ''best'' resource of a resource branch.as example WoW and other games of the like,there is always a resource thats the best of there branch,the highest tier and thus the best. Thus a hegemony,which has good supply of that top tier resource will have no problem to kill of any soon to be threat,before they also get their hands on a steady supply of that resource,thus rendering them helpless. i hope with the concept of alloys crow fall will go the way i wish,namely no top tier resource that is just better than any other. every resource,every alloy,has to come with it's own unique pros and cons,thus giving the opponent a method of countering a unique weakness with a unique strength. 3.betrayal has to be motivated! we saw that there will be vassal/liege relationships in a guild/nation. but if this is nothing more than a fancy in-guild ranking system,then i don't think it has much influence and worth on the overall gameplay. but if higher ranks are rewarded in various ways,in short if its desirable to rise up in the ranks and to become more powerful(in a political way) ,then there will be the seed of betrayal,treason and coup d'etat. now last but not least an example which in cooperates all 3 points. lets assume one big guild or a alliance of more than one guild,has established a hegemony on the EK. their war machinery is efficient and well equipped and supplied. but they are very dependent on a few resources for their equipment. now as their opponent we take a look at these resources and the products made out of them,we will see the strength but also the weakness of their equipment,so we will adapt and make use of that weakness. But still our enemy got sheer numbers and even if we adapt,they can also adapt in turn. But still we manage to win some small battles(favorable rob them of territory that they would really need in this war) And now they also get attacked by some mob army or some other kind of random event,maybe a natural disaster destroying or atleast heavily damaging their economic center. But even then they prevail,but they are very weakened,maybe not enough for us to beat them in the end,but their omnipotence is still crumbling. And this steers the ambitions of people within their own ranks. allied states stabbing their knife in their back,because they see the opportunity arise to become independent and more powerful. or vassal raising their arms in rebellion to dispose of their liege,or vassals even if they stay faithful to their liege,fighting each other,thus wasting their resources and war potential in meaningless in-guild fights over power. and in addition such weakened nations also have to be concerned about organized crime,since that kind of environment(low budget and low manpower for law enforcement) invites criminals,thus weakening a crumbling hegemony even more. so i think if theres the possibility to react to anything that your opponent can offer in addition to internal power struggles and outer non calculate able threats,like NPCs and natural disasters,there will always be change and no stalemate.because the development of power isn't linear,but circular. I hope it will peak your and the developers interest and i would be glad for any kind of productive input and discussion. if this is too much too read for you,scroll down there is a summary of each point,on page 3 i also summed up the quint-essence of all my points^^
  18. Original Source Link: Crowfall Interviews: Building Upon Star Wars Galaxies' Crafting by Thomas Blair And now, the interview for those who don't want to go to mmorpg.com: Crowfall has some mighty lofty goals for itself. The new MMORPG being made in Austin and helmed by Todd Coleman and Gordon Walton seeks to make the sandbox MMO less of a niche game. And they've enlisted the help of some serious talent to do so: namely Thomas "Blixtev" Blair and Raph Koster. Today, we learn all about Blixtev's design for the crafting in Crowfall to build upon the near perfection that was Star Wars Galaxies. To get us started – who are you, and can you tell us a bit about your background? Howdy! My name is Thomas “Blixtev” Blair. I have been building online worlds for over 14 years. I started as a Designer on EverQuest during the Planes of Power era, transitioned to the Star War Galaxies team during the implementation of Jump to Lightspeed and eventually became Lead Designer of the team, and was the Lead Systems Designer of DC Universe Online while building the initial launch game. I’m a very “technical” designer, meaning I like to get my hands dirty in the underlying systems that make MMOs work. I’ve even been granted a few patents for my work on Star War Galaxies, specifically the Beastmaster system and the Entertainer “Build-a-Buff” system. I have worked primarily on the systems side of design throughout my career: crafting, itemization, rewards, combat, PvP, stats, abilities, classes, talents, etc. If you ever played any of these titles I really hope you have fond memories, and I can say with certainty that you are familiar with my work! Cool. What is your role on Crowfall? I’m the design lead, which means that I manage the design team. It’s also my job to sit in on the brainstorming meetings between J.Todd Coleman and Raph Koster, and then try to figure out how to make their crazy ideas work in the eventual game. It’s kind of like herding cats! Today, I’m going to give you a glimpse of that process in action: this is a system that came directly out of one of those meetings, and ended up becoming one of the central ideas behind crafting in Crowfall. Crafting is a central part of the player-driven Economy in Crowfall. Open-ended economic systems are tough to pull off. The closest model to ours is probably Eve Online, though you can see the ways in which it ties to ideas that were originally surfaced in Ultima Online, Star Wars Galaxies, and Shadowbane. The most obvious goal of crafting in Crowfall is to enable players to create amazing items that tie directly into the different systems, like equipment, city building and sieging. The less obvious but equally important goal is to create interlocking behaviors that drive players to engage with other players. The benefits of crafting are obvious: your name will be known, your items sought out far and wide, whispers from other players wanting you to craft for them will never cease, the AFK auto reply will be your only friend! That’s the goal of the crafter. It’s really an exploration game, testing and tuning and building a reputation (and product) that other players can rely on. A bold vision, with a long history of games before us, that hasn’t been attempted in the MMORPG scene in a long time. In my opinion the MMORPG genre has been stuck in a rut with crafting systems for some time now. A few games have tried it, but the “crafter” profession, as a play experience, doesn’t exist today like it did ten or fifteen years ago. Video Here What do you think happened to the crafting scene in MMORPGs? It really came out of the need to make sure that every player could be an island, and not have to rely on other players for his or her progress. If every player can play the game completely independently, then it stands that crafting should be a “secondary activity” for everyone, not a primary profession for anyone. If you wanted to be a master crafter, you had to do that in addition to gaining combat levels through PvE. Since it was an optional secondary profession, the endgame “evolved” from dealing with other players (or beating on them and taking their stuff) to forming large groups and killing raid bosses for phat loot. Thus began an eternal struggle between loot drops and crafted items. There can only be one! Crafted items better than dragon loot?! Preposterous! Take a boss drop to a crafter to craft it for you? No way! Of course, loot drops won out, because it’s easier to control the player experience by setting drop percent chance. In fact, loot drops won out so convincingly that crafting is mostly used to fill in equipment gaps while waiting for raid boss loot drops. How sad is that? To relegate a primary game profession to a sad time-filling activity? As designers in our desire to make killing big monsters worthwhile we killed the concept of having a crafting class as “the thing you do.” We have replaced depth and community interaction with clever and in some cases very good mini games. How you craft is where we have been focusing all our efforts, not why you craft. Speaking as a player who made virtual fortunes in UO as a Blacksmith and in SWG as an Armorer, I’m bummed I can’t find an experience like that in the current marketplace of games. No one knows who the crafters in the community are, there is no debate on how to produce masterpieces in the forums. People think of the exploration game as “looking for new zones”, but it used to be so much more than that! As a result, the crafting community has largely gone by the wayside. I’d like to see what Crowfall can do to change that. What do you propose to “bring back” crafting? I’m not claiming to have a silver bullet on this one, just some ideas based on years of playing and observation. There are a ton of lessons to be learned looking at games like Star Wars Galaxies and EVE Online which had and still have success with their crafting and economic loops. From a very high altitude, crafters need to be able to: craft unique items, explore new recipes and profit from the results of this exploration, and create customized items for all styles of play. Crafters must have an audience to buy their goods. The loop between crafter and combatant has to exist! And, ideally, crafters need to be able to “mark” their product so that they can build a social reputation and a following. The very concept that players can and will lose their items at some point is required, otherwise the game loop breaks. It is a very controversial topic for those who don’t like the potential of losing their items, and we understand that. But sometimes you have to embrace ideas that may not be popular at first glance, because they open up amazing areas of gameplay that are otherwise not accessible. On Crowfall, we’re willing to take some of these risks, because we know that the payoff will be worth the effort. How do you determine who can craft? Every character has the ability craft some items, from the beginning of the game. Further crafting requires the accumulation of recipes through gameplay and class specialization. Do you have to use the crafting system? Of course not! Our goal is not to “force crafting on the masses.” We just want to make crafting a viable profession, a core part of the player-driven economy. We do want to support it as a valid type of gameplay and crafters are very valuable members to any guild. How are Crowfall recipes different than other games? Most crafting systems recipes are very specific. 3 iron ingots and 2 wool cloth will craft an Iron Plate Helm. This recipe is repeated up the chain, mapping each tier of metal to a unique recipe. At the end of the day, the crafter has 500 recipes, most of them unused. The recipe system is heavily inspired by the designs that Raph Koster created on both UO and SWG, the randomized enchantment system is more like Todd’s work on Shadowbane. The recipes are fluid; because the ingredients are not as strict, that leads to a higher degree of system exploration. For example: You have a single 1 recipe for “Plate Helm”. The requirements are 3 metal and 1 cloth 1 Leather and 1 additive element. The player can choose which tiers of those resources to put in those slots. As long as the slots are filled with something valid, the recipe will craft. They can even add something special to the additive slot to alter the item in a significant way. This reduces our recipe count by about 90% and every recipe in the Crowfall player’s book remains useful. Moreover, the result is more varied and it’s going to be up to the player to figure out the “right” combination of reagents to produce the desired result. In a nutshell, it is largely left up to the player to decide what items they want to craft, and how. Woot! Though a shorter list it is still a limited list of combinations, correct? While the recipe list is shorter, the possible outcomes from the Forging stage alone are much greater than a standard crafting system. Next, you add in additional stages before the item is done. For example, you might: Refine your alloys, Forge the blade, and then Enchant it by binding an Elven Blademaster Thrall into the blade. The Refinement step alone varies greatly based on which Alloys are used. We are showcasing a small sample of Metal Alloys in one of our illustrations released today. Interesting. How do the Metal Alloys work? Metal Alloys are made from combining various types of ores in the crafting process. Each ore combination produces either a Pure Metal or an Alloy. Pure Metals grant Attributes, while Alloys grant Attributes and Statistics. Ores from all resource tiers are used throughout the entire crafting tree to ensure that no ore becomes obsolete. The amount of combinations gives the player a gigantic palette of options to use when crafting. Alloys sound like fancy Sub-Components? I would say they are super-fancy sub components! The secret sauce they add to the system is the freedom they give the crafter to make customized items. To continue the example from above: the Plate Helm recipe has a resource slot which requires 3 Metal. The crafter can use any 3 Metal they want in the Recipe. Want to go all attributes? Use 3 pure metals. Want to go more statistics than attributes? Use 3 alloys. Want to go a mix of attributes and statistics? Use 2 pure metals and 1 alloy! This is independent of the Enchantment that you can later bind into the item, which really depends on the Thrall that you have captured. The Smith can make his armor as custom or as simple as he wants to. One of the great parts of this system is that it is extensible to other materials: Leather, Cloth, and Thralls... Wait! What the hell is a Thrall? Oops, I’ve said too much! I was never here. We never had this discussion. Is a Thrall what I think it is? And do you use them in crafting? OK, fine. I’ll tell you. The Dying Worlds are filled with Thralls. They are basically the souls of fallen warriors and craftsmen, left behind and awaiting judgement before they can move on to the afterlife. If you capture a Thrall, you can shortcut that process and bind them into your items. Todd likes to reference the demon imbedded inside Stormbringer in Moorcock’s Elric series, as a narrative example. If you bind a Thrall into your item, the properties of the item change in certain ways. I like the idea of a Smith’s Hammer that has the trapped soul of a Dwarven Forgemaster bound within it, and that his skill and life experience is being used to make that hammer stronger and more precise with every swing. That’s probably about all I should say about it for now, except, remember: the system was designed to create reasons to seek out and interact with other players. Or, you know, kill them and take their stuff. That works, too. Sounds cool anything else to add? I’ve spent hundreds (thousands?) of hours playing crafting games… honestly, more than I should admit. I’m really excited what we have hammered out, pun intended. That said, we’re really open to ideas and we’d love to hear your thoughts on our system. Does it sound cool? How could we make it better? We are still working out the details of the system, and we would love to hear your feedback. If you have ideas, please stop by the Crowfall suggestions forum and post them. They will be read and discussed by the team! Thanks again for reading, and we’d love to have you join our community! Thomas Blair / Thomas is the Design Lead on ArtCraft's upcoming MMORPG Crowfall. He's been in the industry for over 14 years. From EverQuest to SWG and DCUO, he's also patented the SWG Beastmaster and the Entertainer's "Build-a-Buff" systems.
  19. I've spent a LOT of time in games working crafting systems in many games to turn a profit and make the "Crafter" a viable play style. Some games made it fun/enjoyable and some made it lucrative but most simply fail and the crafting system is the exclusive domain of each guilds assigned crafters. My biggest success was Coff33B33r in SWG... Not because it was a high level consumable or a rare drop recipe, because it was hyped on the forums before the game launch for many many months! If I were not able to NAME the product because of SWGs amazing crafting system, it would never have been so successful. The last 3 days grinding away at the crafting system in another PvP type GvG game that is currently Alpha testing brought me to a conclusion that I hope the developers of this game can appreciate. A starting crafter cannot make a living making his wares because the market inevitably becomes saturated with the objects they can make by all the other crafters who are also trying to level. This goes to the point where the crafted items are being sold for half what it costs to make the items or even less. A guild subsidized crafter will be able to spam to the next level and sell off his junk for pennies because he can now turn a profit from the next level items that no one else can make yet. Once the other crafter crowd finally makes it to the next tier, the guild subsidized crafter can then crash the market for those items again, selling them for pennies and moving on to the next tier... etc. etc. rinse and repeat. All the while, regular crafter types cannot make any money by playing the game the way they want to play the game. The one thing most common in all crafting systems that cause this failure is leveling requirements. Assuming: 1) All products have a decay system that either requires characters to get a crafter to repair their item at a cost or materials and money OR requires characters to scrap and buy new replacements. 2) Crafted consumables give effects worth the expense of having them and using them at all times. These consumables should cost very little to make if anything at all. Tea, collect leaves, water, boil and serve... No cost at all except the use of a fire. This way the crafter sees pure profit even if only for 1cent a cup. 3) Some/Most items are badly ruined when killing a character (armor has been wrecked if a sword has skewered its wearer) and require repair before becoming useful again. Looting cannot be a bypass of the crafters goods. I would propose a system without leveling and grinding. In real life we learn how to make things by being taught or teaching ourselves through experimentation. I learned how to crack an egg from my mother, I learned how to fry the egg the way I like it from doing it myself a few times. Picture the following... 1) All recipes are available to everyone always. 2) Recipes are learned by paying to be taught (Maybe by other characters or NPC trainers or both). 3) If there is a tree relationship from one recipe to another, you can discover (chance to learn through experimentation) the next one in the tree just by making things below it in the tree many many times, BUT! Anyone could be taught any recipe anywhere in the tree if they find someone to teach them or pay to learn it. After all, I don't have to know how to fry eggs in order to make quiche. 4) The higher the quality or "level" of a craftable item, the more complex the recipe becomes. Requiring more ingredients and less common ingredients. Some may require more time or other specialized crafting tools to make. The point here is that crafting better items takes more effort. This will slow the crafting churn and deter non-crafters from just doing their own work on the side while they hoard treasure chests full of gold. 5) Allow the interaction with a crafter to be quick but the crafting should be more involved and time consuming. By this I mean allow the crafter to make armor repair kits that they can use in seconds when approached for repair services, but make the kits take a few minutes to make so that non-crafters are more likely to choose the services of a crafter over just doing it themselves. In this system, with supply attached to demand rather than the need to level, no one has to keep grinding out items and selling them below cost. If a guild chooses to flood the market with low priced goods, they are finally doing so at their own expense without benefit. A crafter who chooses to do so will find themselves bankrupt and go find wealth in a different way. The true crafter will be a valued and important part of the economy and be able to compete at fair prices and amass wealth like the merchant class should! Now, I hope I can serve CoffeeMead and Hot Crow Wings at McFears Tavern in this game...
  20. In simple terms players would not be able to recognize all of the resources found in the environment without having the appropriate skills. I'll create a simple example which demonstrates this point: Skill: Herbalism. Allows player to gather herbs as well as identify and/or detect them. Herbs split into any number of primary categories. Let's say there's 6 categories. Flowering plants A & B, non-flowering plants A & B, roots A & B. Each category has a primary mask, as in a visual appearance. For an example, Flowering Plants A look like this smiley in the game. Flowering plants B look like that smiley face in the game. When a player without the Herbalism skill succesfully detects a herb of category flowering plant A they will see . When a player with the Herbalism skill succesfully detects a herb of category flowering plant A, they will not see , but instead will be able to recognize the next layer of the masks. So they might see for an example or . In this fashion sort of a taxonomy for the herbs can be created. Note that this doesn't actually require any additional graphics, as it's simply a question of which graphics are shown the player. If each herb has an individual image, it can simply be set that the first image in each set is shown depending on the layer of recognition. So Flowering Plants A may contain subset Aa, Ab, Ac and each of these may contain addition subsets like Aa1 Aa2 Aa3 until eventually we have the individual plants. This system allows some interesting features to occur also. For an example we can have a batch of flowers which contains plants from several different sets. But the player might only be able to pick out some of the plants, but they will not know there are other plants to pick as well. Additionally there may be a small chance to pick herbs as unidentified, maybe. The same system can be used with almost all crafting resources potentially. I'll create a quick image to demonstrate this better:
  21. ArtCraft has been revealing a bunch of features I thought were "impossible". And after the last pre-countdown update, the forums have slowed down considerably. So I am going to make another thread about another ridiculous feature which will likely not be in the game (That's what I keep telling myself), in order to get some conversation going. Everyone light your speculation candles! *Lights speculation candle* I am going to discuss about a feature that rivals physics in MMO feature impracticality, mob behavior and interaction. And one of his close friends, mob population. Mobs in MMOs are usually dogs on leashes, if you get close to any aggressive dog, he gets all mad at you and begins attacking you until you get too far from the stake his leash is tied to. If I were to make it a bigger hyperbole, I'd call mobs Chain Chomps. Now I am going to make a suggestion. Can mobs behave like living things? Can mobs move from one area to another? Can mobs eat grass? Can predatory mobs eat other mobs? Can mobs make nests and have little mobs babies? Can mobs flee from player character if it is obvious they are at a disadvantage? Expanding on the previous question, can mobs care about their existence and not just the erasure of the nearest player character's existence? Now when I am talking about mobs, I am referring more specifically to monster/animalistic mobs. And if mobs could behave in this way. Could their population be affected by player character actions? If players kill too many boars in an area, will the boar population eventually reduce in number, making boars rarer? Would boars eventually leave the area in order to find a safer environment? Why would these features be added? To improve the play experience of the PvE player and the Player Economy. Think. What limits a crafting economy in an MMO? Monster respawn timers, and crafting component drop rate. The rest of it is how much time a player is willing to dedicate to grinding crafting components by cycling between mobs spawn points. With this type of environment, the players have complete control over the economy, if they ever need a component, they just go grind it where they always have and they will have the components they needed. This is fine, but what if components were not as easy to get? What if the player finds that the mobs he usually hunted for leather have now disappeared from the region, and are now somewhere else around the world map thanks to their migratory ability. What if the flora he used to gather from has been completely devoured by herbivorous mobs that migrated from another area in their grazing rampage? What if the player encounters a monster nest that has rare eggs used in high end crafting that are baby mobs waiting to be born. What if the monster he is looking for is now extinct in this area? Gotta find another population elsewhere, or maybe find an alternative mob which does not have as high quality leather. Could the player repopulate the first area somehow in order to make it productive again? A reactive PvE ecosystem is something I think could be a really fun feature in an MMO. I encountered a limited ecosystem feature in Wakfu. The ecosystem there was simple, you fights monsters and kill them. Once you killed a mob, you could harvest resources from them. Among the crafting components and items they dropped, they dropped "monster seed" (If you know what I mean). You planted "monster seed" in the ground, and the monsters would undergo the same reproductive process as PLANTS USUALLY DO (God, don't ask me), and new adult mobs would be born after a short while (say 2 minutes). If players did not go through the process of planting monster seeds, the monster population would eventually be killed off. If I remember correctly, there was probably a mechanic to get a few new monster seeds to "revive" the monster species if they all died and no players had any seeds for them. The reason I really liked this simple mechanic was that the monster felt a little more "real", as limited as that may have been. The monster families had male / female, and adult / baby counterparts which helped in the aesthetic of a tiny monster ecosystem. Conclusion I think it would be pretty interesting to have a mob fauna / flora population dynamic for a richer economic experience (So players can actively explore new regions to find new mobs to kill and extract crafting components from). As for mob behavior, I think it would make PvE a little more interesting. Killing non predatory mobs could turn into a game of Crowd Controling and trapping these mobs as if the player were hunting them instead of slaying them. Studying the behavior of these mobs would facilitate their capture, maybe they become ridiculously vulnerable when lured with bait, or perhaps they travel in certain patterns, always grazing in an area every often so the player can ambush the herd. I also want to kind of see the Pre-Hellcats hunting some non-player prey, in addition to player prey.
  22. Saturday, Raph Koster answered this question: And don't forget this: Player-driven Economic Systems The heart of the Crowfall design lies in the marriage of two game systems: - A system for strategic territorial conquest, and - A system for player-driven crafting and economics system Like a proverbial "yin and yang", these two systems have very different (and often competing) design goals -- but each of them REALLY shines only in the presence of the other. Marrying these two systems is like the "holy grail" of virtual world development. This is a seriously tough challenge. So, I'm not going to boldly pronounce, "we've solved it for everyone!" -- but I do think that we've solved it in a unique and novel way that some people are going to absolutely love. To help us solve this tough challenge, we needed help. I am delighted to (finally) reveal our ongoing collaboration with Raph Koster. For those of you not familiar with Raph, he is one of the most renowned and experienced MMO designers in the world. He was the lead designer on both Ultima Online and Star Wars Galaxies from inception through launch; two games which really "set the bar" for crafting systems in a virtual world. Raph also literally wrote the book on game design (...or at least he wrote *A* book on game design. It's called A Theory of Fun, and it's required reading for anyone who wants to create games.) If you are curious what we've been up to with Raph, here is an interview with Thomas Blair (design lead on Crowfall) which gives an excellent a look "behind the curtain" of one facet of the crafting system: the system for refining Metallic Alloys. MMORPG.com Article - Building Upon Star Wars Galaxies' Crafting For convenience, here are hires versions of the images that came out with that article: - The first is another of our "Banner Series" of concept images. This one, entitled "Caravan", shows a party of adventurers hauling raw materials (stone, to be precise) from the quarry to their stronghold. - A video snippet showing what it looks like when designers like Raph, Blair and I lower ourselves into the chaotic, howling maelstrom of MMO design. Be afraid. Be very afraid. - A hires version of the sample Alloys chart. This isn't a "master list" of Alloys; it's an example document of what allowed recipes might look like, and it gives you an idea of the power and flexibility of the system we're building. - ...and with that last one, a hires snapshot of our prototype UI for the personal crafting system. Try to limit your discussion posts to one idea Raph brought out at a time
  23. I've never seen a MMORPG that allowed players to enchant an object with a single-charge magical power that is automatically cast when certain conditions are met. Wards are fairly common in fantasy literature, and could be a fun crafting discipline for mage archetypes. The player who enchants a ward with a particular power would need to be able to cast that power himself. Merely reading a magic scroll with the spell on it would not give him enough understanding of the power to be able to imbue an object with such a ward. Also the player placing the ward would need to be skilled in casting wards to be able to do this. Ward enchantment should be fairly simple, require no reagents other than the object enchanted and reagents to cast the spell outright; but it should take about 10 minutes, so no one would try it in combat. Maybe a thrall would need to be embedded in the object in order to charge it with a ward later. In that case, the thrall would stay in the object until the object is destroyed. There are many examples of how wards could be useful: A coin could be left in the road, and when a player picks it up, Boom goes the Dynamite! A unit touches (or trips off) a snare trap, and the ward alerts a player holding another object that the trap was touched. A unit approaches a gate, and a magic face appears announcing his presence, name and guild. A player snaps his fingers twice, and his halberd teleports into his hands. A thief reaches into your bag, and steel teeth clamp shut on his wrist. Endless possibilities at this point. What do you think?
  24. (something, something, mechanic between pressing combine and getting goods (ACE probably has a plan for this already, but whatever suggestion time)) When you craft and item the blacksmith/ lumber mill/ etc you are in gets sealed off, and the Thrall you used gets spawned as a hostile NPC. If you didn't include a Thrall, a random Thrall (with minimum stats and no special impact on the end product) of a recently killed player spawns in (Reading everything we know about Thralls, it's pretty heavily hinted that they're PvP loot of other players). The Thralls attributes are determined by the types and qualities of the crafted materials. (rarer and higher quality materials -> stronger Thrall mob and adds) The Thrall has an attack pattern based on it's Archetype and summons two types adds, one related to it's Archetype (a Templar spawning a different mook than a Knight, etc) and one related to the workshop (a Furnace spawning a different mook than a Volcano, etc). The Thrall constantly loses hp. As mooks die off, all enemies (Thrall and mook alike) become stronger. (more max hp (only directly relevant to the mooks), more damage, etc) Several of the crafter's abilities (but not the abilities of players accompanying the crafter) have additional traits that are only relevant while crafting (increase mook spawn rate, decrease all damage the Thrall recieves, make the enemies (temporarily) weaker, plenty of design space here) When the Thrall dies, it drops the crafted item ... with the item's quality tied to the Thrall's max hp at death. Edit: With a penalty for each additional player accompanying the crafter. Forgot to put this in earlier. /woke up 35 hours ago Because the workshop is sealed killed players cannot reenter until the crafting session ends, all players dying result in a failed craft.
  25. Hi I want to share with you my vision of a crafting system. As the title suggests I want to separate knowledge of recipe and crafting skill. Mostly because in most crafting system optaining recipes was way to simple or luck based. There are only a few way how you can learn new recipes, like buying from vendors (to easy), random loot from mob (to lucky) or throudh experimentation (not much of wall with internet/wiki). Through random ingredients for each player you could enhance the experimentation approach but that would be Macgyver like "Oh i have a bubble gum and a string, lets build a bomb with it!". Optainig recipes in one of this way isn't something I could be proud of as a crafter. It would only mean that I was lucky, had gold or know how to use google. I think they have published a screenshot where we can see that they want recipes to be more of a skeleton. You know how to craft something but its your choice to use good metal or a bubble gum. So now to the skill part. I would like to see a system where I get something like passiv skills for handling certain ingredients and crafting processes. If I have used tons of copper I will get better at it so I get a bonus if i make something out of it. The same for crafting processes. If I made 100 swords I should know how a sword should look like and get a bonus if I craft a sword. Now you can start to stack this crafting bonuses. If I would make a sword of copper it would get the copper bonus and the sword bonus. So I would need a crafter with skills on handling my ingredients and on crafting my item to get the best possible result. With non persitent worlds there could also be unique skills that can only be acquired by a few or a single crafter. The one who made the most swords throughout a campaign will get this unique skill and the same with ingredients. Or other methode to optain these skills, there are a few possibilities. I would also take one more step by sub-classing the recipes too. They only revealed sub-classing ingredients (I mean the alloys) so far. If we get more steps to train we would get more passive skills and more possible progression. The real master crafter would be someone who could secure multiple unique skills and stack the most bonuses for a single item. A good crafter should be able to crafte a copper sword thats way better than the steel sword made by a unskilled crafter. PS: no npc repair pls. Let crafter repair items.
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