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Champion, Melee DPS or Aggressive Support?


Degan
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My opinion is that the Champion is an aggressive support class.

  1. DPS doesn't feel higher than the Knight, is lower than the Confessor
    1. Yes the confessor Tornado is broken but Champions lack the kind of ability that does burst damage but also screams "Hit me I super vulnerable right now"
    2. I'm impressed when he hits for over 1k which you could do on the knight
  2. So many CC abilities
    1. Ranged Slow
    2. Suppress
    3. Blind
    4. Stun
  3. So much damage mitigation
    1. 95% damage resistance
    2. iFrame abilities
    3. Mad HP regeneration

 

 

Lets do a quick ability run down

 

Ability 1 (first press) - Massive Cleave - Strike a target for 403 - 545 + 125% Weapon Damage

Nice melee attack and damage but I probably used this attack the least choosing to focus on the CC abilities or generating rage from the LMB attacks

 

Ability 1 (second press) - Whirling Pain - Sweep 7 times around you dealing 143 - 194 + 100% Weapon Damage per swing

Not really burst, but a really nice ability when in a large group of people.  Plus you are completely free to move around when in spin to win mode.  Again not an ability I used very often because I focused on the CC but the free movement while doing damage makes this skill very unique.

 

Ability 2 (first press) - Spinning Back-fist - Deal 211 - 285 + 90% Weapon Damage as Crushing Damage

Lead in for the blind combo with decent damage

 

Ability 2 (second press) - Kick Sand - Kick Sand in your foes eyes, blinding them for 4 seconds while dealing 307 - 416 + 170% Weapon Damage

Blinds are just a nice disruptive force in PvP.  It throws the enemy off more than anything else, helping your team mates to avoid damage

 

Ability 3 (first press) - Viscous Stomp - Stomp the ground in a cone in front of you, dealing 243 - 329 + 150% Weapon Damage

Lead into the best ability the champion has and it again does solid damage

 

Ability 3 (Second press) - Disarming Shout - Supress enemies, disabling their abilities for 6 seconds. Dealing 213 - 288 + 140% Weapon Damage

Suppressing an enemy for 6 seconds means they can only run around for 6 seconds.  Everything is considered an ability and I think it also breaks channeling affects (could be wrong though)

 

Ability 3 (E press) - Rend - Rend targets for 162 - 219 + 60% Weapon Damage, and applies a Severe Bleed

If its like other bleeds this is probably the highest single damage ability but we can't see bleed damage so who knows.  I used it as a filler in PvE while waiting on the the cooldown of Disarming Shout.  I should probably use the cleave now that I look at the damage difference.

 

Ability 4 - Throw Hurlbat - Throw a projectile, dealing 132 - 178 + Weapon Damage as Slashing Damage. Hitting the same target three times applies Slow

I believe the tool tip is wrong.  The slow seemed to be applied on the first hit.  If an enemy started to run away and they didn't have the speed bug this preaty much solved the problem when combined with leap.  Also used this to pull in PvE a few times.

 

Ability 5 - Ultimate Warrior - The Champion harnesses their Hatred. Grow in size and increase damage dealt by 10%. This effect can stack twice

Best thing about this ability isn't that it does 10% additional damage but it has iFrames

 

Ability 6 - Strength of the Mountain - Turn to stone for 6 seconds. Increases all damage resistances by 95%.  Damage taken increases bonus Damage by 4%. Stacks up to 5 times

Your "Well I messed up button."  6 seconds for your team to come save you or for the enemy to plot your death.  Combine this with the iFrame from ability 5 and your RMB ability might come off cooldown so you can leap away.

 

Ability LMB (attack 1) - Strike a target for 95 - 128 + 100% Weapon Damage, gaining rage if you hit. Successive strikes deal more damage and restore more rage, up to three hits.  (attack 2) Strike a target for 52 - 71 + 100% Weapon Damage, gaining rage if you hit. Successive strikes deal more damage and restore more rage, up to three hits.  (attack 3) Strike a target for 154 - 208 + 135% Weapon Damage, gaining rage if you hit. Successive strikes deal more damage and restore more rage, up to three hits.

Generate rage so you can do stuff.  Tip for attack 2 is probably missing a 1 in front of both numbers.

 

Ability RMB - Leap - Leap 15 meters, dealing 198 - 268 + 150% Weapon Damage as Crushing Damage as you land

Love this ability for closing distance or quickly getting into a group of enemies so you can bring the pain.  It also generated rage for each use. and can be used twice and relatively quick sequence

 

Ability C - Flying Neck Breaker - Perform a heroic move, knocking all foes to the ground. Dealing 190 - 257 + 245% Weapon Damage as Crushing Damage

Awesome stun

 

Passive - Retaliate - The stand up when knocked down skill

 

Passive - Dirty Fighting - Increased combat health regeneration rate in direct relation to how low his health pool is

 

 

For me the Champion excelled at disrupting the combat of other players either by blinding, stunning, or suppressing them.  If the target wasn't killed during the disruption phase you had plenty of ways to avoid damage - use the 5 ability to iFrame a quick burst or 6 ability if you where the focus target and then leap away.

 

I hope one of the advancement paths for the Champion builds on this allowing for longer blind or suppression or including trips to attacks but reducing total damage.  I also think that if he is going to be called DPS the amount of CC needs to be reduced and general damage output increased.

Edited by Degan
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well I wouldn't link Pre-Alpha classes and actual classes later on. I think they just threw things onto the champion in order to test them.

 

On the other hand maybe is base is this and you can build him towards more dps or more cc or more speed or w.e.

 

I mean we do have a very basic form of the game which only features the passives right now (for character advancement).

You get the wolves...lots of wolves...and sheep that wear armor and have developed an appetite for blood soaked grass - dubanka

Even insects smell good when roasted - a random confessor

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I disagree with you assessment of Champion's DPS. While the wombocombo does do a poorly made socks load more damage that's more of an example of confessor's ridiculous strength at the moment vs melee. However, most of the Champion's abilities have the possibility of 1K+ crits. Hell, I've been using whirlwind a lot this past weekend as it will wreck face as well (and allows movement). Most of the champion's "support" moves while really good for group game play are mostly just to keep him alive. He doesn't have the survivability of a Knight at all and has to be cheesy to win.

 

I think Champion & Knight will really shine once they work out the jankyness. It has been getting consistently better the last few weeks to the point where you can do well if you are accustomed to the system's quirks.

 

The only thing I dislike about Champion is second wind. I hate how it currently works. It makes no sense to me why a bad ass warrior needs to run away like a pansy to get his health regen.

 

EDIT: The People's Elbow is the best C ability. Plus I love yelling it out over voice chat.

Edited by halifax
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Bleed, People's elbow, massive cleave and even left click all do respectable damage. Playing him for dps and playing him for interference is just a different style.

Edited by yamix
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The only thing I dislike about Champion is second wind. I hate how it currently works. It makes no sense to me why a bad ass warrior needs to run away like a pansy to get his health regen.

Everyone needs to retreat at times. Even as a knight I don't spend 100% of the time in melee range.

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Everyone needs to retreat at times. Even as a knight I don't spend 100% of the time in melee range.

 

If I had to guess I would say 85% of the time when I want to trigger second wind I am not retreating, but just being smart and proactive about keeping the regen up. As soon as it is triggered I hope right back into the battle. Maybe I have to think of the need to leave combat as the cost of the strong regen, but I just as I said I don't like the way it plays right now. I think it could be reworked.

 

I am a big retreater too. It's my main tactic even if it's not always wise. Too much Arma where retreating and fighting on your own terms is superior 95% of the time.

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After playing the champion some more this week, I think you are right halifax the Champ does have solid dps but almost all of it is in bleed (10 second abilities doing 3K, and currently no way to cleanse a bleed).  I feel like hes missing the burst damage of a true DPS, but I hope the promotion classes let me spec further into this group support build.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Bleed is a common form of DPS, it's just not burst DPS we often associate a DPS class to be.

 

Often Bleed classes do more actual DPS than burst classes because they are able to do white damage on top of their bleeds which = a higher DPS over a sustained fight.

 

I like what I have seen of the champion. Very much the style of DPS I prefer (CC + Bleed + survivability = great group support) Jump in, drop a bleed and CC then survive until your mates can finish them off.

(although there is something satisfying with that burst damage to send a low health opponent to the grave in one shot)

 

You can often mitigate burst DPS through avoidance, armor or counter abilities, where a Bleed DPS is most dangerous in a sustained, group fight because their hits seem so innocuous.

 

(I don't think I am doing a very good job of explaining myself...)

 

Right now, I am leaning towards the Champion... at least until we see the Myrmidon which we know to be a tank class. If the Myrmidon is a DPS tank, I love that style as well.

Edited by Kell
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