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EntityGaming

Future Development Ideas: The Champion

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The Champion Today (1.1 Hunger Dome)

 

The Champion is in an odd spot as a Melee Bruiser style Archetype. Because there are no dominant high range classes in the game yet like the Ranger, he fills that position with his spammable ability Throw Hurlbat. On top of that he spends rage. I'll explain why this mechanic bothers me and has continued to bother me through several games where Rage is a power to be spent. He also has some great things about his toolkit that really do fit the Archetype of Champion; a strong bleed, some great CC, and hard hitting burst abilities. I don't think those need to change too much, if at all.

 

So let's talk about these 2 key things that probably need to be adjusted. There are likely to be more as the game progresses in development and as new Archetypes are introduced, but we're working with what we got right now:

 

Throw Hurlbat: This is a moderately low damage ability that slows after the 3rd hit. The slow is quite considerable, and it can be used as an escape mechanic, or as a catch up mechanic. In the end, it isn't super powerful alone, but with the rest of his toolkit, against the other archetypes currently in game... it gets annoying to them. And pretty scary. A good Champion will keep you slowed all the time by spamming Hurlbats in between regular attacks to keep you perma-slowed.

 

Rage: Generally, there are generator abilities, and spender abilities. Generators usually deal less damage than spenders. It's a simple, working mechanic that trends through several archetypes and classes in different games.

 

How might these be adjusted?

 

I think a good adjustment to Hurlbat would be to raise the Rage cost from 3 to 5 or 6, or remove it all together, and make it an ability with limited charges that regenerate over time. This would prevent so much spam and decrease his overall kiting power, while maintaining some of the uses of Hurlbat. Also if the slow wasn't as strong, but applied immediately, it would serve the purpose of catching up to your enemy's melee range better. I also realize this would lower the skill cap a bit, meaning that you only need to land one hurlbat and then it gets easier because your enemy is now slowed. Just some ideas there though. The hurlbat balances the power of the current Champion build, but to me doesn't fulfill the same fantasy that the rest of his abilities do.

Rage

 

This resource has its own dedicated section because I really need to layout the groundwork for how I think this should work.

 

Rage... I hate this. Why is it, that if I don't have rage, I can't be the Archetype that I picked. I understand Mana as a mechanic and resource for casters. But I don't think Rage should be a spender. Let me explain.

Rage seems misconstrued by game developers. Or maybe they are just to lazy to think of a system that'd make more sense because the system that is in place works mechanically.

Instead imagine this. Rage starts at 0 as a Champion. All of your abilities are generator's though. No spenders. You can also gain rage from taking damage. As you fight, you bulid rage, and eventually reach the cap (100 cuz it's an easy # to remember). As your rage goes up, your damage and effectiveness increases (capping at 20%. In other words 100 rage=20% damage and effectiveness increase). I might cast my Bleed at 12 rage, but I'm not that mad yet, so it's not a very deep wound. If I cast that same bleed 88 rage later, it's going to deal 17% more damage.

Abilities like Hurlbat would slow more and deal more damage based on Rage as well. That's what I mean by damage AND effectiveness.

It'd be pretty boring if your rage didn't go down though and you just permanently had a 20% damage boost. So when you get CC'd you aren't dealing damage, but you are taking damage. CC would cause you to lose half your current rage. After getting out of CC, your rage generation would increase by 30% so you could quickly work your way back to max. Lastly, if you used Ultimate Warrior, it would consume all 100 of your rage to give you a permanent 5% damage boost until you leave combat, and you would lose a rank everytime you get hard CC'd (doesn't include slows). This could stack up to 4 times. So your total increased passive damage would be 40% in a battle if you can maintain 4 stacks of Ultimate Warrior.

Lastly, this would create the whole argument of power disparity of "I want to be the same strength all throughout the fight, but I'm so weak at the beginning and I die before I ever hit 4 stacks of Ultimate Warrior!" Then you need to play smarter because the other rage system doesn't make sense for this Archetype!!!

Sorry I get a little emotional. Ok, why is this system better than the current Generate & Spend version?

 

The reason I hate the current version is that I can't cast the abilities that I want to when I want to. Just because I'm not mad enough doesn't mean I can't kick sand in my enemies face. Rage shouldn't tell you what abilities you can and can't cast, instead it should tell you how hard those abilities are going to hit. I don't want a Mana Resouce with a different name, I want an entirely new mechanic because it makes sense for this mechanic to work this way! Is that too much to ask? Doesn't mean there can't be classes in the game with the Generator & Spend resource system, I just don't think it should be the default system for Champion. And who knows, maybe ACE have discussed this internally and think the same way I do. But I'd love it if this version got implemented somehow.

 

Alright that wraps up my maniacal theorycrafting for the evening. What do you guys think about this? Any other ideas about this Archetype's future design? Any other imbalances you see with these possible changes?

Edited by EntityGaming

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If hurlbats become inventory items we can't spam them for long.

 

Good idea on the new type of mana resource. Whether it gets called rage, fury or something else doesn't matter to me.

I'd like for magic to work differently for different archetypes.


I think the K-Mart of MMO's already exists!  And it ain't us!   :)

 

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If hurlbats become inventory items we can't spam them for long.

Another great idea. This suggestion of course brings up a whole multitude of other questions to be answered as well for other Archetypes. Whether rangers will need arrows to fuel their shots, whether or not different reagents will be needed to cast specific spells on Caster archetypes. But definitely a considerable decision to make Hurlbats an inventory item. I like it.

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I think the hurlbat as an inventory item reagent is a great idea. It gives something crafters could produce a lot of to help stabilize their cash flows. Think SWG with all the various reagents needed for slicing, spices, etc. that weren't hard to get in high quantities, but it definitely was a great item to start out on. 

 

I rarely run into Rage issues. I leap everywhere constantly building up my rage and I mix a good number of generators itno my attacks. I'd rather miss with a genreate than miss with my abilities so sometimes You get 2-3 hits in with your generator and you're just like "Damn. I should have rended their ass." At least then I can hurlbat spam!

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I think the hurlbat as an inventory item reagent is a great idea. It gives something crafters could produce a lot of to help stabilize their cash flows. Think SWG with all the various reagents needed for slicing, spices, etc. that weren't hard to get in high quantities, but it definitely was a great item to start out on. 

Great that you bring economy into the picture. When the developer's can find ways to cause systems to interact, then all players tend to feel more valuable in the game overall. I talk about this a bit in another thread that isn't hardly related:

http://community.crowfall.com/index.php?/topic/4502-parkour-inspired-movement-in-crowfall/page-4

 

It's the novel somewhere towards the bottom of the page. Point is, if we have Hurlbats/Arrows/Spell Reagents all craftable + different strengths are craftable at different levels*, then we take some of the power that fighters (a very general term but fitting here) have, and give it to the crafters who tend to lack power in MMOs. Balancing power and making everyone feel valuable with their own playstyle is going to be completely essential with the game design philosophy that ACE has going for Crowfall.

 

*Levels not meaning vertical progression levels, rather skilled crafters who have passively trained their blacksmithing skill could say make mithril hurlbats more efficiently vs. plain iron ones crafted by someone who has less skill.

Edited by EntityGaming

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Another great idea. This suggestion of course brings up a whole multitude of other questions to be answered as well for other Archetypes. Whether rangers will need arrows to fuel their shots, whether or not different reagents will be needed to cast specific spells on Caster archetypes. But definitely a considerable decision to make Hurlbats an inventory item. I like it.

If the developers do not want to make ammo a finite item, another thing they can do is add a slot in your inventory to equip different types of arrows/hurlbats that are infinite but give the ability certain effects. Perhaps you can have a hurlbat that deals a bleed instead of slowing, or have a hurlbat that poisons enemies after the third consecutive hit, etc.

Edited by Jon

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If the developers do not want to make ammo a finite item, another thing they can do is add a slot in your inventory to equip different types of arrows/hurlbats that are infinite but give the ability certain effects. Perhaps you can have a hurlbat that deals a bleed instead of slowing, or have a hurlbat that poisons enemies after the third consecutive hit, etc.

This is a great design topic. Im at work right now so I'll dive deeper later but for now: Since items decay over time anyway, it'd make sense to have an infinite ammo item, because eventually the wear and tear would break it anyway. Meaning it'd only be infinite till it's durability hit 0

 

To get a better sense of what I mean check out this thread: http://community.crowfall.com/index.php?/topic/10302-infinite-vs-finite-ammo/

Edited by EntityGaming

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This is a great design decision topix. Im at work right now so I'll dive deeper later but for now: Since items decay over time anyway, it'd make sense to have an infinite ammo item, because eventually the wear and tear would break it anyway.

This makes no sense.


I think the K-Mart of MMO's already exists!  And it ain't us!   :)

 

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I like the idea that rage makes you hit harder it sounds... Nice.

It makes sense since rage builds up power or is it that the champ doesn't like to kick sand unless he hits something first.

What is he? A chicken?

And the usable item equips for powers sounds pretty cool this can even make the final game even

more complex muhahahah more chaos!

It'll make crafters a must need in any guild I agree with you on this.

But would this be a craft thats hard to make?

Also I think it should not make your powers stronger but give them different effects making your powers do different things changing your gameplay by said modified powers.


https://obsidian.wiki/images/Obsidian-ForumSignature.jpg      

Wise words someone once to told me.Steal from the rich and give to thy self.

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