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preston

Strongholds in store tax free?

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I have a question.  The strongholds that are offered in the Crowfall store don't describe whether they have a tax free parcel that comes with those.  Does anyone know?  Essentially, my question is if I buy a castle and then what if I can't maintain it in the game because it would cost a million gold pieces in parcel taxes per week?

 

Any help appreciated.  I tried searching the forums and didn't find an answer.

 


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I found this answer on the forums.  Is this accurate?

 

The lastest info on the tax system is:

 

* The tax-free bundle parcels are resource parcels.

* Resource parcels cannot be built on but are taxable (except for the tax-free ones.)

* Stronghold parcels can be built on but are not directly taxable.

* The buildings placed on stronghold parcels are taxable.

* Adjacent resource parcels can modify the tax rate of the buildings on a stronghold parcel.

 

My question after finding this info.  If we buy a castle, keep or fort from the store we are building on the stronghold parcel.  Since we build the castle, keep or fort on the stronghold parcel will we need to pay taxes on that building?  Or is it extra buildings besides the Keep, Fort or Castle built on the stronghold parcel that are taxable?

 

Second question:  If we pledge as a vassal to another EK can we use the Keep, Fort or Castle on the other EK - building the Keep, Castle, or Fort as a vassal or are vassals limited to small secondary type buildings?

Edited by preston

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I believe the stronghold building (castle structure, keep structure, etc) comes with the parcel and therefore is not directly taxable. However, if I build a house or church or something on the plots of land on that parcel then it is taxable and can fall into disrepair. At least that is what I think it means when we get stronghold parcels.

 

As to the second question, if I understand it correctly, the castle or keep structure is tied to the parcel and cannot be removed. You must be granted high enough authority in another kingdom to put parcels down(and therefore new stronghold buildings). If you are only given access to a plot of land within a parcel, no, you cannot put the castle or other stronghold there, is my current understanding of the system.

 

Here is the breakdown from the FAQ about EKs:

 

As the Monarch, you control the administration of your kingdom. You can set the PvP rules, collect taxes and grant regions, provinces, boroughs and tracks to other players, making them part of your kingdom.  You can collect taxes in whatever form you want to from your vassals, be it resources or materials. Hey, it’s good to be the monarch!

As a Noble, you can grant lots to other players, making them vassals of the kingdom and allowing them to place buildings on your land.

As a Vassal, you can erect buildings on your lots and grant access to these buildings to other players as tenants.

As a Tenant, you can place relics and thralls in the buildings you have access to, using these buildings as crafting stations and market/vendor locations.

(And remember, these permissions are hierarchical in nature – a monarch can naturally do everything that his or her subjects can do!)

 

So to place other parcels and buildings like castle's and keeps (which to my understanding are tied to parcels) you must be high enough in the fealty tree.

 

However you may have multiple strong holds in multiple kingdoms you control as seen here:

 

You can even own multiple parcels on multiple kingdoms. (Thematically, this would be like a medieval lord or lady residing in one kingdom but having ancestral rights/holdings in another.)

You might, for instance, want to have a castle on one kingdom (where you produce your goods) and a handful of smaller parcels on other kingdoms located in or around central market areas (where you sell your goods).

Edited by FrostSword

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Good answers Frostsword, thank you.  From what you wrote it does look like you can place a castle in another Eternal Kingdom if you had high enough rights, probably the Noble title rights.  And it makes sense to tax the other buildings that would go up on the parcel or stronghold and not the castle structure itself. 

Edited by preston

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There are only tax-free parcels and normal parcels.

Buildings and strongholdes are always the same, from store or achieved in game.


After EverQuest Next is gone, its Star Citizen for me.

 

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There are only tax-free parcels and normal parcels.

Buildings and strongholdes are always the same, from store or achieved in game.

 

Thanks, but that didn't really answer my question. 


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While many pledge packages specify that that they include "tax-free parcels," the Strongholds do not. If they were tax-free, I would expect ACE to mention that. I see no reason to presume that store-bought Strongholds will be tax-free.

 

This would mean that your stronghold could decay to ruins if you do not pay your taxes. You would not lose it though. At any time you could spend resources to build it back up again, good as new.


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While many pledge packages specify that that they include "tax-free parcels," the Strongholds do not. If they were tax-free, I would expect ACE to mention that. I see no reason to presume that store-bought Strongholds will be tax-free.

 

This would mean that your stronghold could decay to ruins if you do not pay your taxes. You would not lose it though. At any time you could spend resources to build it back up again, good as new.

 

If the stronghold structure is linked to the parcel and not a separate building, then I don't think that is the case. Here is what the FAQ says about strongholds and taxes:

 

"Is there an upkeep cost on the land or buildings? (number 29 in EK FAQ)

Buildings have a recurring maintenance cost. (We use the word “tax” because it’s easier to say than “recurring maintenance cost”.) The base cost is different for each type of building.

Stronghold parcels do not have a direct tax. Instead, they apply a multiplier to the building(s) placed on that land. Resource parcels that are adjacent to the stronghold have two effects. First, they increase the occupancy rate of the stronghold parcel: How many buildings can I place there? Second, they adjust the tax rate of the buildings placed in the stronghold parcel.

If your taxes fall into arrears, the buildings on the land will begin to degrade (but the parcel itself does not; for example, a Medium Keep parcel isn’t directly taxed, so it never downgrades.)

If a building fully degrades, it won’t disappear but instead goes to rank 0, the “Ruined” state. At that point, the building becomes unusable (and stops incurring additional taxes).  

You only can repair and upgrade your buildings using in-game resources (i.e. the resources that come primarily from campaigns)."

 

So I don't think any strongholds are "tax free", meaning any building you put up will need to be maintained by tax but the stronghold structure does not require tax upkeep or go into ruins (is how I read the FAQ).

 

However, the FAQ does not tell us what the tax free parcels of land do for us. We can't put buildings on resource parcels, so do tax free parcels make buildings on strongholds tax free? There is nothing in the FAQ saying we pay taxes on resource parcels...

Edited by FrostSword

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Yep, I had not noticed that bit about "Stronghold parcels do not have a direct tax."

 

It sounds like you may be right, that the stronghold itself won't decay.

 

The wording is a bit ambiguous though. Based on the wording, it is possible that the stronghold (as a building) does decay, and only the parcel attached to it is tax free. In that case, your stronghold could be in ruins, but the parcel it sits on would not decay into a wild state. They do specify "a Medium Keep parcel isn't directly taxed."


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Yep, I had not noticed that bit about "Stronghold parcels do not have a direct tax."

 

It sounds like you may be right, that the stronghold itself won't decay.

 

The wording is a bit ambiguous though. Based on the wording, it is possible that the stronghold (as a building) does decay, and only the parcel attached to it is tax free. In that case, your stronghold could be in ruins, but the parcel it sits on would not decay into a wild state. They do specify "a Medium Keep parcel isn't directly taxed."

 

I agree it is ambiguous and I'm just going off my interpretation, which could very well be wrong. I'm sure they will clarify for those concerned when the time for this comes closer.


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Thank you for the response Frostsword.  Your answers make the most sense.  Rook, I don't think the stronghold keep would degrade into ruins because like you said you could just place it again good as new.  I think the stronghold keep is like the base building block that determines how many buildings you can have, tax rate etc... like Frost said and by itself it won't be taxed but also if there are no more buildings it won't do anything but sit there and be an empty throne room doing nothing. 


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Alright folks the way it works is:
 
"Stronghold parcels do not have a direct tax. Instead, they apply a multiplier to the building(s) placed on that land. Resource parcels (such as the tax free farms) that are adjacent to the stronghold have two effects. First, they increase the occupancy rate of the stronghold parcel: How many buildings can I place there? Second, they adjust the tax rate of the buildings placed in the stronghold parcel."

 

This means you could effectively reduce the taxes (which is just another word for maintenance cost) of the parcel to zero. This was confirmed by Todd, but I'm not going to scour the forums to looks for it again right now  B)

 

But this ALSO means you will likely have only farms and a stronghold since you filled up all your space with farms over other builds such as vendor stores, homes, smithy shops, etc.

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Thank you for the response Frostsword.  Your answers make the most sense.  Rook, I don't think the stronghold keep would degrade into ruins because like you said you could just place it again good as new.  I think the stronghold keep is like the base building block that determines how many buildings you can have, tax rate etc... like Frost said and by itself it won't be taxed but also if there are no more buildings it won't do anything but sit there and be an empty throne room doing nothing. 

 

From the same FAQ:

 

"If your taxes fall into arrears, the buildings on the land (that includes the stronghold) will begin to degrade (but the parcel itself does not; for example, a Medium Keep parcel isn’t directly taxed, so it never downgrades.)

 

If a building fully degrades, it won’t disappear but instead goes to rank 0, the “Ruined” state. At that point, the building becomes unusable (and stops incurring additional taxes)." 

 

The confusion is that they call they entire parcel (the land itself) Medium Keep Parcel because a Medium Keep comes WITH the land. 

 

So it looks like this:

  • Parcel (the land part) is taxed.
  • The stronghold (the Medium Keep) adds a multiplier to the tax rate.
  • Additional buildings & resource parcels (like farms and shops) effect the tax rate, population limit, etc on the Parcel.

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From the same FAQ:

 

"If your taxes fall into arrears, the buildings on the land (that includes the stronghold) will begin to degrade (but the parcel itself does not; for example, a Medium Keep parcel isn’t directly taxed, so it never downgrades.)

 

If a building fully degrades, it won’t disappear but instead goes to rank 0, the “Ruined” state. At that point, the building becomes unusable (and stops incurring additional taxes)." 

 

The confusion is that they call they entire parcel (the land itself) Medium Keep Parcel because a Medium Keep comes WITH the land. 

 

So it looks like this:

  • Parcel (the land part) is taxed.
  • The stronghold (the Medium Keep) adds a multiplier to the tax rate.
  • Additional buildings & resource parcels (like farms and shops) effect the tax rate, population limit, etc on the Parcel.

 

 

Thank you Keaggan.  I heard that the tax free parcel we got with our pledge package is just a resource parcel.  Is that true or can we use our tax free parcel for the stronghold parcel?


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But this ALSO means you will likely have only farms and a stronghold since you filled up all your space with farms over other builds such as vendor stores, homes, smithy shops, etc.

--The farms are separate parcels outside and surrounding the stronghold parcel whereas the stores, smith shops, etc are buildings you place in lots on the stronghold parcel. They are completely separate entities and having many of one does not mean you give up the others. If you surround the stronghold parcel with tax free farmland parcels and get the tax down to 0 then all of your shops, etc will not require a tax upkeep. You can have both. 

 

 

 

From the same FAQ:

 

"If your taxes fall into arrears, the buildings on the land (that includes the stronghold) will begin to degrade (but the parcel itself does not; for example, a Medium Keep parcel isn’t directly taxed, so it never downgrades.) -- There is no confirmation the building structure is indeed separate from the land. The information we have (including concept art) indicates the stronghold parcels are divided into lots and that the structure does not take up any lots but is part of the parcel itself as a building would.

 

The confusion is that they call they entire parcel (the land itself) Medium Keep Parcel because a Medium Keep comes WITH the land. -- But when you update from a medium to a large keep the structure and land are upgraded together which would imply the stronghold structure is part of the parcel not a separate building...

So it looks like this:

  • Parcel (the land part) is taxed.
  • The stronghold (the Medium Keep) adds a multiplier to the tax rate.
  • Additional buildings & resource parcels (like farms and shops) effect the tax rate, population limit, etc on the Parcel. -- The farmland is a separate resource parcel whereas a shop is building that takes up a lot on a stronghold parcel and is taxed.

 

 

 

Thank you Keaggan.  I heard that the tax free parcel we got with our pledge package is just a resource parcel.  Is that true or can we use our tax free parcel for the stronghold parcel?

Last I heard they were thinking of a system were you could trade in parcels to get other ones (such as trading 3 single resource parcels for a river resource parcel 3 parcels long. However, i don't know if the new ones will keep the tax free specialization or if the system will be included at launch.

Edited by FrostSword

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Number 9 of FAQ:

 

"We have divided the parcels into two types:

 

Stronghold parcels are intended to act as housing and marketplace areas – in many cases, players will collect their houses on a single stronghold parcel to form villages, towns and cities. The parcel will also include natural elements like trees, rocks, rivers, escarpments and waterfalls.  They include an embedded structure (like a castle or a keep) and are named after that structure.

 

Resource parcels are single and multi-cell parcels that players can drop around their stronghold parcels, to benefit that stronghold in some manner.  Resource parcels can increase the occupancy (i.e. the number of buildings) of the stronghold and, in some cases, can offset the tax (or maintenance) cost of the buildings placed on any adjacent stronghold parcels. Players will also be able to drop some props and decorative elements onto these areas, but they are not intended for building placement.

...

As you can see, the parcel is not just the structure itself, it is the keep, the walls around that keep, and the complete region of countryside that supports that keep.  (For example, one might say, “I am the Lord of the Western Reach. From my keep, I control all of the Darkspine Moutains, as far as the eye can see.”)"

 

 

I take that to mean it is tied to the parcel and not a separate building. Which would make sense for things like the keep where the extra wings have added lots where none existed in the lower tiers which would be a nightmare to handle if the structure and land plots were separate.

Edited by FrostSword

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Thematically it seems weird that the buildings you slot into your keep will turn to ruins if you don't maintain them, but the keep itself will be shiny and new forever.

 

And if the strongholds are tax-free, I think ACE should advertise that fact in the store. It might help people decide to buy them.

 

It has taken some real digging to try to answer this question, and I still don't feel like we have answered the question with 100% certainty.


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I think one of the reasons for it is so the people who got the bigger strongholds from backer levels are not immediately slammed with taxes on such a huge piece.

 

A thematic work around could be to have the stronghold reflect the average building state, but I don't know how complicated that would be.

 

I think part of the reason it has taken some time to find answers and the fact that it still isn't 100% clear is because this part of the game is still in concept only. The focus has been combat, and when most of the combat and CW items have been taken care off, we will see this aspect take shape.


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What I wonder personally is what the tax figures are going to be for said medium keep. I would like to know mainly since I would be purchasing one for myself and my friends to use, so the maintenance cost would be nice to know.

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