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budkin

The State of the Game - official discussion thread

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Does this put Rangers on hold too?

 

I can wait, but was just curious if they'll still be in the pipeline.. (and in before siege/destruction)

 

Also, glad to hear the reticle will be locked during combat! (And strafing is coming :) wootwoot)

 

Good question Kiro,

 

I hope the Ranger is delayed, nothing worse than playing a flatfooted Ranger that abruptly freezes in place every time a skill is used. I'll play a ranged Champion before I will play a melee Ranger.

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Thank you Artcraft for the transparency. Imho this is the right decision. Everyone who has been a dedicated MMO player knows that, this type of games dont get built overnight and when you built a PvP MMO with action elements, Combat is the foundation. If the foundation is weak, the whole thing will eventually collapse.

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Does this put Rangers on hold too?

 

I can wait, but was just curious if they'll still be in the pipeline.. (and in before siege/destruction)

 

Also, glad to hear the reticle will be locked during combat! (And strafing is coming :) wootwoot)

 

Ranger is not on hold, full speed ahead!


Gordon Walton, ArtCraft Entertainment, Inc.  [Rules of Conduct]

Follow us on Twitter @CrowfallGame | Like us on Facebook

 

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Ranger is not on hold, full speed ahead!

 

Yea buddy! CUE THE MUSIC!

 

lup1tK6.gif

Edited by Zybak

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Gold star to everyone that did participate in the playtesting  :wub:  in spite of combat not being "great" yet or "perfect". I saw Blixtev in many CF streamer chats -  I'd like to think that watching people playtest in streams and videos, plus all the data collected gave them the evidence to decide to rework rather than being influenced just by forum rants  :P .

 

I'm really enjoying being part of the whole development process, can't wait to test out the new iteration of combat in Jan.


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I really appreciate the honesty, and it's very reassuring to see that just as we were promised, you guys are keeping to your word and letting us know exactly what is going on. This is the reason I had no objection when it came to donating, and I look forward to and even more polished experienced.


“The difference between the quest for the Holy Grail and someone saying ‘bring me a cup’ is the flavor text and the number of stops involved.”
― Bryan Fields

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I couldn't have been happier with this update. 

 

THIS is why I love backing this game and ACE.  They just seem to get it. 

 

Basically everything I could have (and did) ask for as far as combat (side conversations about "balance" items not included), being addressed, acknowledgement of the issues, acknowledgement of the importance of getting the base-combat system right before anything else...

 

I just... have nothing but smiles right now.

 

Awesome.  Simply Awesome.


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Chapter Leader

 

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Does this put Rangers on hold too?

 

I can wait, but was just curious if they'll still be in the pipeline.. (and in before siege/destruction)

 

Also, glad to hear the reticle will be locked during combat! (And strafing is coming :) wootwoot)

 

 

Ranger is not on hold, full speed ahead!

 

Though, I guess technically "on hold" in that we won't get our hands on it until March, since it's supposed to be part of the 2.0 Siege Perilous release and not the January Combat Redux tests.

 

My take:

Work continues as normal on Ranger, but our chance to play it will be delayed by nature of 2.0 being delayed, which really just means an extra month worth of refinement on the Ranger prior to our playing it.  That said, it won't be BEFORE siege/destruction, as it's part of the same 2.0 release...

 

Right?

 

Also... the 2.0 delay is 100% acceptable given the importance of getting combat right.  I think the fact that I haven't really seen ANY complaint about that slip, pretty much sums up that we all agree on that.

 

Which is scary.

 

Seriously... an entire forum in agreement?

 

I'm suddenly very worried.

 

JamesGoblin SAVE US!


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Chapter Leader

 

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Also... the 2.0 delay is 100% acceptable given the importance of getting combat right.  I think the fact that I haven't really seen ANY complaint about that slip, pretty much sums up that we all agree on that.

 

Which is scary.

 

Seriously... an entire forum in agreement?

 

I'm suddenly very worried.

 

JamesGoblin SAVE US!

Yes. Now give us something controversial. Cue the big December Reveal!


Luke I am your Uncle... Bob.  What, my sister Padmè never mentioned me?

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Can you show an example of someone who said that combat was great and needed no further retooling? It seemed to me that everyone agreed that it needed further development. The disagreements were about belligerent tone, grandiose statements and hyperbole, and a level of doom and gloom that seemed to neglect the pre-alpha stage of development the game is still in.

 

 

I think flip-flopping fans are unlikely to change the course of development. But if that is your view, I note that on the 16th you wrote this:

 

 

And then 5 days later you wrote this:

 

 

I suppose that makes you the reason poorly made socksty games get made.

Its not flip flopping when my attitudes changed because of a DEVELOPER change in course. I can NOT like something, when they agree and change course, I CAN like the new course. What an inane argument.

 

When you "liked" combat the way it was before, and then suddenly didn't like it when the devs stated they didn't like it also? That's real courage there. If your opinion always mirrors the developers opinions, great for you. I don't think that's being honest with your feedback though. If your opinion changes just so your stance is "always agreeing with them", then you are just a fanboy not contributing to the development of this title.

 

I'll refer you to this thread if you want to see people who disagreed with ZiZ. Without trying to raise the ire of our lovely forum moderator regime, I'll refrain from calling out specific people in the thread. Several basically tried to refute his argument that client-side controllers would not fix combat. Clearly, he and several who agreed with him, were ahead of the developers in highlighting several specific issues with combat. That feedback was clearly listened to quite closely by the devs who released the video this forum thread is discussing.

 

Look, I don't expect everyone to agree on every topic, but I find several people who replied in THIS thread to be disingenuous with their approval of the change. Either they didn't have a clue why combat wasn't going to work on a larger broader-appeal spectrum, didn't really care and wanted to support the developers effort irregardless of the actual outcomes or larger future implications, or simply just wanted to be the "yes men" forum fan boys; none of these really help the game move forward.

 

Its considerably frustrating though, when many people considered the current combat mostly a success and the only voices of dissension were in that referenced thread. Then all of sudden, everyone turns a corner when the devs also agree with ZiZ's thread? Is it not fathomable why that might be frustrating? Am I missing something? Maybe I typed too fast.

Edited by scree

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I guess I'll get my thoughts as off 12/23/15 on the record

  • Like the fact that they are trying to include velocity on attacks
    • Pros
      • Keeps animation locks
      • Maintain some fluidity of movement during combat
    • Cons
      • Animation might look janky (an animation that used to only move 1 foot now moves 5 and it looks like you are sliding over ground)
      • People are going to gripe that they still have animation locks
      • Making strafing or back peddling a thing just means the best players won't do them
      • Not getting to siege makes me feel like they will have less time to optimize for large scale conflict
  • Little disappointed that the camera is changing
    • Not saying they are wrong or right
    • Camera in combat at the end of 1.1 worked for me
    • I'm worried that locking the camera is going to lead to jump turning for kiteing

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Woops forgot... @scree

 

Hmmm... it's more of 'liked combat but it could and Will improve as the game is further developed.'

 

That said, the term flip flop is misused here. No one went from I hate the combat to I love the combat between 1.0-1.1 Milestones, and visa versa. It is what it is, and as long as constructive feedback and bug reports get through to ACE (and they have been obviously) the game will become what ACE said it would be.

 

The only thing worrying me right now is Time. I hope ACE pushes back the release date as they see fit (if needed) and that people will understand why they delayed. (Because they usually dont understand. And scream and cry that the company is a phony.. ESO is a good recent example of that.)

 

Also, that thread was well thought out compared to its prior sister thread.

Edited by Kiro Elmarok

[TB] The Balance
Nation of Equilibrium

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Anyone who flip flops based on a devs opinion is the reason poorly made socksty games get made. 

 

Its not flip flopping when my attitudes changed because of a DEVELOPER change in course.

 

Right, then.

 

When you "liked" combat the way it was before, and then suddenly didn't like it when the devs stated they didn't like it also? That's real courage there. If your opinion always mirrors the developers opinions, great for you. I don't think that's being honest with your feedback though. If your opinion changes just so your stance is "always agreeing with them", then you are just a fanboy not contributing to the development of this title.

 

I'm going to let the straw man you addressed that to reply to it.


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    • I'm worried that locking the camera is going to lead to jump turning for kiteing

 

I don't think we can use abilities while in the air, but the proposed camera change should make kiting harder than it is now in any case.

 

Right now the champ just needs to run with S and click 4 to launch a Hurlbat at his target behind him. The animation is quick so he barely skips a beat. The game automatically turns his character for him when he activates the ability and then automatically turns him back in the direction he is running.

 

With the camera change, he will actually have to turn his character himself and then aim and fire. Or throw hurlbats while backpedaling. 

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So many 180s going on you'd think we were playing Tony Hawk 3 with a bunch of nine year olds.

 

 

"OH MY GOD. YOU GUYS DIDN'T LIKE COMBAT. OH WELL. ME NEITHER. I AGREE WHOLEHEARTEDLY WITH YOU SENPAI."

 

 

so many grown men spending so much time on their knees around here it's insanity. 

 

 

 

 

meanwhile all of us who actually had the grown adult compulsion to state our displeasure about the game, that we invested money in, to this company. That develops the game we invested in. That is being made for us. The consumer and the investor. - "Finally. Faith in Development - Restored. Thanks for listening to OUR feedback" 

 

Anyone else crowing about their feedback that still has grass stains on their knees from two weeks ago where they were loving combat? I see some imprints of your knees back two weeks ago in the developmental process that want their knees back in them. Please report to your positions. 

Edited by Tehrror

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