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The Big Reveal: Crows and vessels - Official discussion thread

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And here we have it!  If ACE allows for the single character option, they have to support it, or it is truly a non-option.  Do not say "Sure, you can do that!" and at the same time make that declaration untenable.    

 

I'm still not certain how this differs from the previously announced ruleset in anyway.


Crazy ex-girlfriends are like a box of chocolates...

 

They'll kill your dog.

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Confessor bodies and Knight bodies are shockingly the same, they are both humans and once dead, they are devoid of the remnants of their previous life.  The Knight's body might be a little more muscled, and probably more scarred, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't be able to swing a blade as a Confessor or wield a shield, if I the Crow knew how. What connection to magic does a dead body possess?  How does what the confessor did in life persist into death? 

Really just comes down to a lore thing.  Some people treat magic like a muscle that needs flexed so if I knight never flexed that muscle then he doesn't have it when they are possessed by the crow.  Just because you know how to lift a shield doesn't mean a character has the physical skill to do it.  I know how to dead lift but put me in the body of a paraplegic and I'm SOL

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I'm still not certain how this differs from the previously announced ruleset in anyway.

 

It differs because now I can lose my character (ie, invested in/attached to Vessel).  Prior to this announcement, I had fully intended to hit all bands.  Now, I probably won't.  Therefore, restrictions placed on the outer bands become even more significant to those who assume they are going to spend their time there.  So far, JTodd has been clear--yes you can have just one character, yes you can advance that character without swapping or losing it, and yes if you choose to take that character to the inner bands you may lose it.  However, it is apparent to me that there is probably more to it than that. 

 

I would love to have further dev clarification on this.  If you happen to read this:

 

Those of us who would choose a single Vessel have been told that it is an option, and that we will be able to upgrade and not lose our Vessel as long as we avoid the inner bands.  My question is this:  Will outer band campaign rulesets force us to park our single Vessel in our EKs once we pass a certain power threshold (excluding restrictions on weapons/armor/resources--let's say we're buck naked)?  Thanks!     

Edited by Regulus

The Artist Formerly Known as Regulus

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Here is yet another potential issue with the new system that I think should be brought up.  Let's say that I spend a lot of time concentrating on my one archetype.  I stay in the outer bands, because I've decided that I will not risk what I consider to be my character (this first and favorite archetype).  It is a bummer that I have to stay there, but I refuse to have this Vessel destroyed or taken.  Through campaigns, crafting and economy I advance and at a certain point I have the current, most advanced archetype upgrade (according to my playstyle).  All of a sudden, I am locked out of the outer bands because the campaign rule set says you can't bring in "purple" archetypes.  My only option then are the inner bands, which I refuse to play because, again, I am one of those stick-in-the-mud gamers who have taken the play option that ACE has allowed for players like me.  This is a particular problem for those who really only want to invest in one character and have an attachment to said character.  The option that ACE allowed is now 100% useless--functionally a non-option.  What do I do then?  Quit CF? :mellow:

 

This is only speculation, but there are several potential problems with this system that treats archetypes as gear.  The problem is not insurmountable, but ACE, (if they chose to) will have to be careful not to alienate those whom they have set out to include, even if those players do not fully embrace all aspects of the current system.    

If there is not enough CWs up with varies rulesets then the game has a whole other problem ie low population and flopping and none of this will matter anyways.

Edited by pang

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Confessor bodies and Knight bodies are shockingly the same, they are both humans and once dead, they are devoid of the remnants of their previous life.  The Knight's body might be a little more muscled, and probably more scarred, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't be able to swing a blade as a Confessor or wield a shield, if I the Crow knew how. What connection to magic does a dead body possess?  How does what the confessor did in life persist into death? 

Sure, a confessor should be able to wield any weapon he can lift. 

But if that vessel never trained up skill with it, his cerebellum doesn't have the pathways streamlined enough to allow natural fluid use of the skill.

This is why the crow is limited to the maximum skill level of the vessel he inhabits as well as his own trained skill level, for a "realistic" standpoint.

 

Discipline runes should be able to magically bend this rule by allowing use of skills not normally available to that vessel's archetype and specified by the rune.


Honestly, you are the type of person that is much to competitive, has zero compassion for other people and think you are better than everyone else. You likely love to troll people on a day to day bases to get others angry and laugh about it. You make playing any online game unfun for everyone else.  -Kuroaka

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Interesting plan. Maybe reward the early backers who were supposed to have 2 extra character slots with a few free vessel slots. So they can enter campaigns with 2 extra vessels that don't impact inventory, and then they can take 2 vessels out of the campaign at the end that don't affect their loot. (I don't have this perk, so this doesn't really affect me)

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The most interesting thing about the announcement isn't the announcement. Its the people who think the (virtualised) physical form is what makes the character. Pity we're all too old to see RL mind uploading, the bunfights will be epic.


David Sirlin's Balancing Multiplayer Games should be mandatory reading for all gamers.

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Interesting plan. Maybe reward the early backers who were supposed to have 2 extra character slots with a few free vessel slots. So they can enter campaigns with 2 extra vessels that don't impact inventory, and then they can take 2 vessels out of the campaign at the end that don't affect their loot. (I don't have this perk, so this doesn't really affect me)

I do, but I fear this is too much of an in-game advantage, and it would be for the life of the account.

ACE could sell extra vessel (ready bag) slots for import embargo vaults (local banks) in the cash shop,

but both say P2W  much more than VIP tickets to me.

 

Speaking of ready bags in our local banks, Blair, can I load a set of gear onto a vessel and stick it back into my Import vault?

if so,how much stuff can I load in the vault, safe from looting if not campaign end, before it is full?

Edited by chancellor

I think the K-Mart of MMO's already exists!  And it ain't us!   :)

 

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Think I may have come up with a solution a small one.

 

Let's say your crow little ghost thing has an "Original body".

 

This "Original Body."

Let say is a Confessor.

If someone where to destroy the body this body will have a cool down for when it reform.

(be it 15 mins, 30 mins , 1 hour. ect.)

 

Now the benefits of having a true body is within that certain skill tree they will train faster then other classes since that was their main class so to speak. 

The rest of the classes can be trained lower then the original class or even slower then some classes (for a more RPG's feel.

I'm thinking the main body can attain the highest level of body.

Now how me out for the reason.

With the lock down dime on the reform of the body in place don't think of rejoining the fight so easy.

If the body dies also may drop a level of variety or start back to it's original setting (before new parts where put in.) Whatever the devs feel like.

 

Then you think what about new archetypes that come out?

Shug that's just the luck of the draw?

Idk I'm not magic. I'm not the all father.

 

In this way your still a crow ghost thing.

But this allows for choice of character to matter cuz you have one shot I think.

If you wish to trade your original base body for another type I think a prenatally should be involved maybe taking a major hit in all your skill points you earned or some other means to  prevent original switching so easy.

 

What do you guys think?


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Wise words someone once to told me.Steal from the rich and give to thy self.

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Still loving the idea of changeable bodies. I see this very much as the permanent Crow (it IS Crowfall) with vessels to allow greater choice in how I'll play from day to day. 

 

Can we call our crow form "Eternal Crow"?

 

Serious question: Does this mean that I could lure high-quality vessels into my tea shop, poison the Crows, and take the corpses/vessels for myself? Or, might people bring an unwary Crow to my tea shop, pay me to poison her, and loot the vessel after the Crow is discorporated?

 

x blends teas x

 

Iri~

Love tea, I'll be right over.  Which EK did you say the shop was in?

 

Your tea IS stored in vessels so your tassel wearing vassals won't spill any on my vessel, right?

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         For those of you talking about there only being one build, you are forgetting the archetype, promotion class, runes that lower and increase your stats (char specific), the relics in your EK, the fact that increased axe skill will do crap for your confessor, the fact that you cannot equip every single skill all at once, and not to mention that you can only train a maximum of four skills at a time and you probably wont have the exact build as that guy who is investing time into stealth rather than jumping

and disp runes and vessel quality and sacrifices to the gods


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AriesWaterfall, this is more like it. Would be nice if you could use your spiritual form and set up a specific class with maybe some disavantage or just "this is a normal vessel, not the best nor the worst", but to use other classes you should craft/adquire the proper body.


Ples don mind me bed gremmer, i'm Apollo Gise

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flygunn, on 31 Dec 2015 - 08:19 AM, said:snapback.png

         For those of you talking about there only being one build, you are forgetting the archetype, promotion class, runes that lower and increase your stats (char specific), the relics in your EK, the fact that increased axe skill will do crap for your confessor, the fact that you cannot equip every single skill all at once, and not to mention that you can only train a maximum of four skills at a time and you probably wont have the exact build as that guy who is investing time into stealth rather than jumping

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

and disp runes and vessel quality and sacrifices to the gods

One character skill-tree build pertains to character skills not equipment.

Edited by Aguise

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Aries, I do like the idea of an "original" or "primary" body for your character. But can't our crow still try out other "vessels", though they may be weaker? And maybe there could be a system where you "re-bind" to a new "primary" archetype (but take a skill-hit)? I dunno. More things to discuss...


"The enemy has found me, Ulic, but the enemy knows only darkness. I know something that enemy does not… I know the Light." ~ Arca Jeth, Star Wars Legends

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What do you guys think?

 

To be honest, I think it is a solution in search of a problem. I am a roleplayer. I like the crow/vessel concept. I want to play a crow. I do not want an original body. I want "me" to be a spectral crow that possesses the bodies of the fallen. It fits the lore. It fits the mood.

 

Just because it isn't like other games, just because you don't have a pretty dress up character to "relate" to, doesn't mean it needs to be changed to be something more familiar and comfortable. We all signed up knowing we'd have to get out of our comfort zones and try something new. Well, here's another opportunity to do just that.


I'm in this for the Experience, not the XP.

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Here is yet another potential issue with the new system that I think should be brought up.  Let's say that I spend a lot of time concentrating on my one archetype.  I stay in the outer bands, because I've decided that I will not risk what I consider to be my character (this first and favorite archetype).  It is a bummer that I have to stay there, but I refuse to have this Vessel destroyed or taken.  Through campaigns, crafting and economy I advance and at a certain point I have the current, most advanced archetype upgrade (according to my playstyle).  All of a sudden, I am locked out of the outer bands because the campaign rule set says you can't bring in "purple" archetypes.  My only option then are the inner bands, which I refuse to play because, again, I am one of those stick-in-the-mud gamers who have taken the play option that ACE has allowed for players like me.  This is a particular problem for those who really only want to invest in one character and have an attachment to said character.  The option that ACE allowed is now 100% useless--functionally a non-option.  What do I do then?  Quit CF? :mellow: 

 

This is only speculation, but there are several potential problems with this system that treats archetypes as gear.  The problem is not insurmountable, but ACE, (if they chose to) will have to be careful not to alienate those whom they have set out to include, even if those players do not fully embrace all aspects of the current system.

 

Have we seen anything that indicates this sort of power based gear restriction on campaign worlds? I know there will be different import rules on how much you can bring, but I don't remember anything that implies the sort of problem you've presented.

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All of a sudden, I am locked out of the outer bands because the campaign rule set says you can't bring in "purple" archetypes.

 

All of them? All of the campaigns in the outer bands will have this restriction, all at once? That seems like a pretty far-fetched hypothetical scenario with little chance of actually happening.


I'm in this for the Experience, not the XP.

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Explain how you can be a Stalker and play a scouting role without putting points in Exploration.

Or how you can be a Forgemaster artisan without putting points in Crafting.

Or be the best Champion you can be without putting points in Combat.

You can do any of the above, but you can't do all three, or even two  You could put some here and some there and diversify, but you'd be watered down and never as good a crafter as someone with all their points there, or as good an scout as someone with all their points in exploration, or as good a combatant as someone focused on combat.

 

You can play all three of those archetypes but they will all share half their skills; those being the skill you spend at the account level into the General skills.  You train General and Archetype on a 1:1 ratio, one general skill for every one Archetype skill, in any given archetype.   Will playing a knight still be different experience than playing a ranger, sure, but now they would either both have to have access to stealth or neither will have access to stealth, making them more similar that disparate (less unique).

Two issues with this. First, it sounds like the vessel you are in, and thus the archetype you are playing, limits what skills you can actually use. It's likely that most knight bodies won't have access to many stealth skills without using discipline runes. If you want to use those stealth skills you have been training, you will need to play a stealth class.

 

Second, I actually like those general skills being account wide as it forces players to make meaningful choices. If you want to be a top notch fighter, you are going to have to make some sacrifices in other areas; if you want to swing a sword, scout, and smith, you aren't going to excel as much as the specialists. Sure you might eventually train up in several areas, but that takes time and you probably still won't quite be as strong as specialists in their area of focus. Just because you can swap what archetype you are playing doesn't mean you will have access to every type of gameplay, which means players need to actually think about what they want to do and plan for it.

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I have been on hiatus for awhile, which I suppose is good in light of this announcement. This really changes how the game will be played drastically.

 

I still do not fully grasp the entire concept, but am working my way through not only the FAQ but this entire thread... Some initial thoughts:

 

1. Death has significant impact (not fully embracing this yet. I just recently got to the point about not giving a poorly made socks in PVP when I die which makes PVP more enjoyable. Now dying stings again. There is much to digest here)

 

2. Crafting just got more interesting. Seriously, who doesn't think crafting and selling "vessels" isn't one of the coolest things in an MMO to date?

 

3. This Lore is cool, but for people who enjoy playing an MMO'RP'G, some of the "feel" is lost. As many have said, the "connection" to a specific toon is lost. I don't care as much, but I can see that being a turn off for some. I give ACE credit though already planting seeds behind this lore. If you are an RP'er, you really could have an awesome time developing a history or story filled with all of your adventures tied into one neat package. As a Crow, you have seen many lives come and go, and having them all linked has a certain appeal to it for sure. "I can't recall anything... With every death... I remember less"

 

4. Corpse runs... they are back. (never was a fan....as a player with a finite amount of playing time, spending hours of my life chasing down my fallen vessel because it had specific items I couldn't lose is a negative. I know I can recall that corpse (at a degraded level) which at least allows me to recoup lost gear, but this comes full circle back to the connection to character) Maybe the mindset is, recall the corpse for the gear, throw it on a new vessel or embargo the items and start fresh. Corpse runs seriously interrupt actually playing and contributing to not only my advancement, but the advancement of my guild/faction/deity. This is the one take away for me that is truly a negative.

 

I look forward to seeing more on this, but I can't say yet if I am excited or concerned...

Edited by Kell

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