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The Big Reveal: Crows and vessels - Official discussion thread

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There is one and only one question that matters after reading that:

 

Will there ever be a situation where you login (or die) and cannot immediately play the exact same class (or another class of your choice, assuming you've skilled it up) with the people (i.e, in the same campaign) you want to play with?

 

If "no" this is a cool new aystem that I cannot wait to try. If "yes", then that is the first and last point every single review and gamer word of mouth news will focus on and it will eventually be changed after much wailing and gnashing of teeth.

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Looks interesting, but... there will be rarity and "quality"?

 

I don't really like this part of the system, at all. I can be a Knight and then come across another Knight - only he's a Shiny Purple Legendary Knight! He's literally better than my character even before we get to gear. Even before we fight or take into account equipment, he's got an advantage over me.

 

What? Isn't this supposed to be a competitive PvP focused game?

 

I really hope character power isn't tied very heavily into the quality of vessels, because that sounds pretty bad. Other than that it's an interesting system.

 

The bigger issue is the rarity/quality levels. I really don't like the idea that my Knight might be completely inferior to another Knight before we even get into the specifics.

 

Hmm... I was interpreting this as vessels being another piece of equipment. Unless your equipment is exactly equal, one of the two knights in your hypothetical situation would already be better than the other one. If you're complaining about the vessel items not being identical then shouldn't you also be complaining about different tiers of gear existing? I mean to be consistent.

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There is one and only one question that matters after reading that:

 

Will there ever be a situation where you login (or die) and cannot immediately play the exact same class (or another class of your choice, assuming you've skilled it up) with the people (i.e, in the same campaign) you want to play with?

Agreed, If i want to play a Knight I better not have to play some other archetype to "find" a knight vessel


MOkvLlm.png

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If you want to play knights and only knights then just make sure you have an adequate supply of knight vessels in storage. This is just like Eve- if you want to fly battleships then you bank some battleships, and if you run out then you fly something else til you can pick up another one. Or borrow one from a guildmate. Or log out and cry, I guess.


Official "Bad Person" of Crowfall

"I think 1/3rd of my postcount is telling people that we aren't turning into a PvE / casual / broad audience game." -

Tully

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ooOooOoOo

 

 

good :)

 

also remember that UO had to eventually implement a "stuck" option to teleport to towns, because being in the wilderness for hours without being able to do anything, wasn't fun

And yet population was higher before that convenience change was made ...

 

edit: From recollection anyway. My point is that sometimes some (or even most) players want things. That doesn't mean giving it to them is good for the game, necessarily.

Edited by coolwaters

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If you want to play knights and only knights then just make sure you have an adequate supply of knight vessels in storage. This is just like Eve- if you want to fly battleships then you bank some battleships, and if you run out then you fly something else til you can pick up another one. Or borrow one from a guildmate. Or log out and cry, I guess.

So, we've turned characters into gear now?  I am not really sure that I like that and I am more than a bit uncomfortable with the statement "just like Eve..."


The Artist Formerly Known as Regulus

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This is a really interesting design, and I am psyched about the implications for character advancement. I'm hoping for seriously so many branches to train because I still hope to feel very different than my peers for a long time.

Amen.

 

Lack of character development is my only real reservation. If they get that right I think they have something here.

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And yet population was higher before that convenience change was made ...

 

edit: From recollection anyway. My point is that sometimes some (or even most) players want things. That doesn't mean giving it to them is good for the game, necessarily.

 

UO peaked in 03 with ~250000 subscribers...

03 was that horrible patch with the item changes and the whole diablo-fication

 

 

I dunno when that stuck option was implemented exactly, but it was sometime after trammel... 99/00 maybe... which means the population was still increasing

Edited by freeze

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So, we've turned characters into gear now?  I am not really sure that I like that and I am more than a bit uncomfortable with the statement "just like Eve..."

Vessels are gear. Characters aren't vessels, characters are crows. Crows occupy vessels just as characters wear gear in any other game.


Official "Bad Person" of Crowfall

"I think 1/3rd of my postcount is telling people that we aren't turning into a PvE / casual / broad audience game." -

Tully

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The character has been converted to equipment... along with the previous skill progression announcement, these things are nice or creative, and may impact gameplay slightly, but it's really just a different kind of loot.

 

I'm not comforted by all the language about vessel drops and unique benefits. I assume premium vessels will be attainable from crafters just like equipment, but things like shallow power curve, crafting centric premium equipment, and action gameplay were all advertised as ways the game will be competitive. Creating another axiom for power acquisition just raises more concerns about the emphasis on competitive skill over character development.

 

Anyway, it's curious stuff, and there's nothing wrong with it, it's just not as interesting as an actual medium of action, like combat behaviors, or flying archetypes. There are hundreds of creative loot, progression and character alternating mechanisms for different games, and they can be facinating, but they kind of exist as a facility for the action of the game.

Edited by bahamutkaiser

a52d4a0d-044f-44ff-8a10-ccc31bfa2d87.jpg          Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes... Than if they're upset, they'll be a mile away, and barefoot :P

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Vessels are gear. Characters aren't vessels, characters are crows. Crows occupy vessels just as characters wear gear in any other game.

 

Commonly, one's class/race (ie archetype) is their character.  ACE has announced today that won't be the case in CF.  They have separated integral portions of what is--again, commonly--referred to as a character.  Therefore, they have minimized the character component in favor of gear component.  To be fair, it is a more complex type of gear with characteristics normally belonging to characters.  So, it smacks of MOBA or my original example, FPS.          


The Artist Formerly Known as Regulus

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So, concerning the skill system and "vessels". ACE has essentially copied EVE directly (instead of vessel = corpse, read it as vessel = Internet spaceship and crow = pod).

I have no new feedback to contribute since passive skills were announced. EVE failed to get it right and have spent years trying to hack together a new training / combat meta that relies on a lower Skill point threshold. To try to retain new players.

This choice of skill system is not without benefits, but I hope (as in have little faith in game devs generally [sorry, JTodd], but remain eternally optimistic) that ACE manages to square the circle that has bedeviled CCP.

Also,that line about being so many skills that everyone is unique and would take forever to train it all....is amusing and foreboding. CCP said the same thing about EVE.

If Character/vessel/ship progression lasted only for the duration of a Campaign, then that would equalize veterans with newbies greatly. We'd also have strategic, important decisions to make in a timely fashion. But then people might claim Crowfall is a MOBA that lasts 3 months, regardless if it would be a better game.

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Holy custard!

 

While I see how some here are concerned, I think this has the potential for really interesting gameplay.  You still keep character progression, even with vessel swapping.  Your vessel just pares down from what your character knows, and I expect people to have pretty different skill focuses.  I know some people here seem to hate everything EVE related for some strange reason, but it does have an effective system where your skills alter the capacities of your current ship, maintaining meaningful character advancement while allowing for new players to still be useful.  So long as skill training is significant enough in Crowfall to feel meaningful, I don't see an issue here.

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Except that all skill training still persists with the character, so a crow with months of Swordsman training will be a much better Swordsman driver than someone who's hopping into one for the first time.


Official "Bad Person" of Crowfall

"I think 1/3rd of my postcount is telling people that we aren't turning into a PvE / casual / broad audience game." -

Tully

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Agreed, If i want to play a Knight I better not have to play some other archetype to "find" a knight vessel

Vessels will be available in graveyards, so even if you don't have any more of your own, you can grab one at the appropriate graveyard. It may not be a very good one, but you'll have something you can use. You can also spend time during the campaign collecting vessels.

 

From what Blair said on the podcast, it doesn't sound like people will have a problem sticking to one archetype if that's what they want, though there could be campaigns where there is a limit on the available vessels.

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A question that didn't get answered from the above stream (from Courant101, I believe):

 

In traditional (mmo)RPGs players identify and "become" the character they control, will try to make it progress, make it survive, love it, etc. How will CF players identify to the Crow or disposable corpses?

 

 

I would really like to know how this will be handled, as well. 

Edited by Regulus

The Artist Formerly Known as Regulus

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A question that didn't get answered from the above stream (from Courant101, I believe):

 

 

I would really like to know how this will be handled, as well. 

I know how I plan on handling it: curling up in a ball and crying my eyes out after my vessel decays to permadeath.

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Having now watched the video too, Mad scientist Tully = awesome.

 

Has thought been given to whether the vessel mechanic will run afoul of Chinese cultural censorship of undead themes?


Official "Bad Person" of Crowfall

"I think 1/3rd of my postcount is telling people that we aren't turning into a PvE / casual / broad audience game." -

Tully

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