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The Big Reveal: Crows and vessels - Official discussion thread

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Have you played EVE?  I know I keep bringing it up, but it seems like you have minimal knowledge of this game which ACE continually compares Crowfall to.

Crowfall is not eve... It is an action combat game with resetting worlds...

 

To think they will play similarly speaks to inexperience... It would be like saying WoW and Tera play similarly because they both have vertical progression leveling and classes. 

Edited by VIKINGNAIL

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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Have you played EVE?  I know I keep bringing it up, but it seems like you have minimal knowledge of this game which ACE continually compares Crowfall to.

 

 

 

 

inb4 VN comments on his professional CS:GO and moba competitive career and how it directly impacts how knowledgeable he is.

 

 

Why do you take the bait from VN? You're not going to win the discussion because VN doesn't ever know what he's talking about. You're literally getting trolled every time you respond to him. 

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Of course, mechanically, you only have the "one" character, so you're barred from having a good guy alt and a badguy alt and all of that.  I'm sure the creative minded can work around this, roleplaying's not exactly the chief concern of the game.

 

 

 

This instantly made me think of Doctor Who. The notion being that if I were to RP most of my core values would remain the same but they could morph a bit depending on what vessel I'm in. It actually opens up some interesting options for RP's. Lets say you do jump from your Human Ranger, who is more calculating, cold, and stoic, to a Legionnaire driven by duty. While in both vessels you may want to save as many people as you can but you would go about it very differently. 


My name is Toothbrush, Scourge of the local pond, King of this tree stump, and future leader of, "The Irregulars".

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Crowfall is not eve... It is an action combat game with resetting worlds...

 

To think they will play similarly speaks to inexperience... It would be like saying WoW and Tera play similarly because they both have vertical progression leveling and classes. 

 

You are correct in one game you are an immortal being who skates that cosmos encased in a shell you can swap out of with different properties and load-outs, while simultaneously selecting skills to learn while on and offline.


My name is Toothbrush, Scourge of the local pond, King of this tree stump, and future leader of, "The Irregulars".

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You are correct in one game you are an immortal being who skates that cosmos encased in a shell you can swap out of with different properties and load-outs, while simultaneously selecting skills to learn while on and offline.

What's interesting is that ACE themselves understand the importance of combat... and they are working really hard to get their combat into a good state... but the type of combat crowfall will have is significantly different from a game like EVE, and for the most part will attract a completely different breed of gamer.

 

It's actually important to understand this when implementing other systems, for example the vessel system... Because implementing any system regardless of intent can only succeed or fail based on the type of players being exposed to that system. 

 

It's not easy projecting how all these systems will come together and what kind of emergent behavior will evolve from it all... but some can do it better than others... especially those with experience in a wide array of games.


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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I got a few questions about the reveal :

 

CrowsVessels2.jpg?itok=MdnRPcVm

 

In the first pages of this comic, we can see a Human taking the oath with Malekai to become an Eternal Hero.

 

-  In-game, prior to taking the oath with a certain God, will we have a human form that represents the "original" mortal who become eternal?

-  If it's the case, will we retain attributes of this original mortal? Will we ever control this original mortal again, maybe in the Eternal Kingdom?

-  Can we refuse the offer and continue to live as mortal until we get kiled? And then we would have the choice : taking oath or permadeath?

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Has there been anything to indicate that crafting specialties will be vessel dependent, either based on archetype or discipline?  I can definitely see there being crafting disciplines, but I would be a little surprised if a given vessel could only make one type of item.

Not necessarily, but consider again what specializing may entail. I have always presumed that the Forgemaster will be the lead in any form of smithing, whether it's armor, weapons, gems/jewelry, etc. simply because he is the Forgemaster. Doesn't mean I'm right, but let's say I am for the argument. Obviously if you want any form of specialization in crafting, this is your best bet. Now, obviously crafting, like any skill, has multiple facets, and given enough time you will probably be able to learn all of it. So let's say that all forms of crafting have a max of 100% mastery. Well, you can go beyond 100% mastery in certain fields with the help of Disciplines, Advantages/Disadvantages and so on.

 

Now, I will be honest here: I have NO FREAKING CLUE how Advantages/Disadvantages will influence crafting, if at all. Honestly I don't see it having much of a say in the matter outside of how it affects attributes, and maybe different types of crafting needs different attributes. For the time being, however, I'm assuming strength is the primary crafting attribute. There's a reason you never see scrawny blacksmiths; forging weapons, armor and such is NOT a task for light-weights.

 

That being said, how can you say you specialize if you don't have special recipes, or can't go above 100% mastery? Disciplines provide both increased max as well as special recipes, but you can only have 3 on any given vessel. Plus, we don't know what the Forgemaster's advancements are and maybe they affect crafting directly, or maybe they don't. But for this argument, let's say they do. Originally, when everyone was class-bound, promotions were a permanent decision you had to live with. Now we have vessels, and the vessels themselves are class-bound, and I have not seen anything suggesting that promotions are not permanent for them. So, unless you only want to be very specific in your specialization, 1 vessel is probably not going to be able to specialize in everything. There are still skill-caps in place, and they vary per VESSEL, not per ARCHETYPE. You may have armor-smithing leveled up to 200%, but if your vessel is bound to 100% max mastery, that's what you're stuck with until you either raise its max or change into another vessel that has a higher cap. 

 

Now, for the flip side of this argument: What if I am COMPLETELY WRONG (which is always possible considering crafting has barely been referenced outside of "it's important, we swear!") and crafting is under NO CIRCUMSTANCES restricted by Archetype? (even though I swear somewhere I read that Forgemasters start off with more crafting recipes than others...) Well then, we still have the problem of advanced recipes and skill-cap maxes, and again, those are probably reliant on Disciplines, which can only be equipped 3 at a time. So, if you want mastery, you still probably need multiple vessels.

 

P.S. For anyone who wants to ask "Wouldn't switching out Disciplines be easier than switching out vessels?" I simply remind you that removing a Discipline Rune leads to its immediate (and irreversible) destruction, meaning you'd have to either make or find another just like it. 


Can we have a Bard? If not as an Archetype or Promotion, then maybe a Discipline?


i-3ZQNFxh.jpg

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Yea I'm not always very clear when I express myself. It's even worse in real life.  :P

 

I was responding to those messages :

 

 

 

The devs have posted a huge FAQ about the new design, published a video, participated in a live podcast to answer questions about it, posted messages on the forum... That's not what I call a lack of information.

 

Let me rephrase it, lack of response to some of the questions that have arisen. I'm not expecting, demanding, or thinking we are even deserving of one, thats not where I'm coming from. I think some interesting questions have come out of the concept and I'm curious to see how ACE interprets them.

 

And hauling...I don't know what but I gotta know EVERYTHING about hauling, this is from a strictly selfish place LOL. I love me some hauling. Rare resources+distance to haul them = PVP, check the history books on that one, its a fact. Man even thinking about it I get PVP excited. #HaulStrong

Edited by tierless

I role play a wordsmith.

 

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I got a few questions about the reveal :

 

CrowsVessels2.jpg?itok=MdnRPcVm

 

In the first pages of this comic, we can see a Human taking the oath with Malekai to become an Eternal Hero.

 

-  Can we refuse the offer and continue to live as mortal until we get kiled? And then we would have the choice : taking oath or permadeath?

 

Love that concept! 

 

And as always great art.

 

 

Unrelated note, I've never seen so many people praising a corpse run. Good or bad I dunno but I have to give ACE props for making the "punishment" part of dying the exciting part.

Edited by tierless

I role play a wordsmith.

 

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I got a few questions about the reveal :

 

CrowsVessels2.jpg?itok=MdnRPcVm

 

In the first pages of this comic, we can see a Human taking the oath with Malekai to become an Eternal Hero.

 

-  In-game, prior to taking the oath with a certain God, will we have a human form that represents the "original" mortal who become eternal?

-  If it's the case, will we retain attributes of this original mortal? Will we ever control this original mortal again, maybe in the Eternal Kingdom?

-  Can we refuse the offer and continue to live as mortal until we get kiled? And then we would have the choice : taking oath or permadeath?

 

-Don't think there will be a "prior to" in game. see below

-See above

-You are given the offer after you are killed. That's how they get you. Your options are 1. death or 2. eternal life (read the fine print)


I'm in this for the Experience, not the XP.

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If we had to fight our way back through Hell (Hell being a crazy PVPinstance) upon each death it could be fun.

(Yes I'm ripping off the Eternal Warrior comic but it looks fun!)

 

WRATH_001_COVER-A_LAFUENTE1.jpg

Edited by tierless

I role play a wordsmith.

 

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Crowfall is not eve... It is an action combat game with resetting worlds...

 

To think they will play similarly speaks to inexperience... It would be like saying WoW and Tera play similarly because they both have vertical progression leveling and classes. 

 

The only aspect from EVE that I see heavy influence from is the "Vessel" concept where we play as a suit of armor and EVEers play as a ship. Beyond that I don't see a lot of EVE in CF. 


I role play a wordsmith.

 

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If we had to fight our way back through Hell (Hell being a crazy PVPinstance) upon each death it could be fun.

(Yes I'm ripping off the Eternal Warrior comic but it looks fun!)

 

WRATH_001_COVER-A_LAFUENTE1.jpg

 

There is an older MMO that does this. You are respawned into a labyrinth that you have to find your way out of before you can return to the world of the living. Can't remember the name...


I'm in this for the Experience, not the XP.

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There is an older MMO that does this. You are respawned into a labyrinth that you have to find your way out of before you can return to the world of the living. Can't remember the name...

 

Maybe the least social but most ruthless players would want to stay in it to make it harder for you to fight your way out of it? Maybe its a place that is geared to attract the nastiest most vicous players who are only there to keep you there? 

 

Its probably too hardcore and grief like for most players but IF it were part of a single rule set then people trying it would be making the choice and not being forced to experience it. 


I role play a wordsmith.

 

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What's interesting is that ACE themselves understand the importance of combat... and they are working really hard to get their combat into a good state... but the type of combat crowfall will have is significantly different from a game like EVE, and for the most part will attract a completely different breed of gamer.

 

It's actually important to understand this when implementing other systems, for example the vessel system... Because implementing any system regardless of intent can only succeed or fail based on the type of players being exposed to that system.

 

It's not easy projecting how all these systems will come together and what kind of emergent behavior will evolve from it all... but some can do it better than others... especially those with experience in a wide array of games.

Did you not read what he said ? Edited by samsbase

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I have always presumed that the Forgemaster will be the lead in any form of smithing...simply because he is the Forgemaster. Doesn't mean I'm right

 

Now, I will be honest here: I have NO FREAKING CLUE how Advantages/Disadvantages will influence crafting, if at all.

 

Plus, we don't know what the Forgemaster's advancements are and maybe they affect crafting directly, or maybe they don't.

 

What if I am COMPLETELY WRONG

That's a lot of assumptions Shadowfang.

 

Disciplines provide both increased max as well as special recipes

And this is the one I am wondering about the most.  It's pretty reasonable to assume that there will be disciplines that increase you max in a crafting skill (since we have seen similar disciplines for other skill), but has there been any mention of recipes at all, let alone disciplines that give you more?

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Maybe the least social but most ruthless players would want to stay in it to make it harder for you to fight your way out of it? Maybe its a place that is geared to attract the nastiest most vicous players who are only there to keep you there? 

 

Its probably too hardcore and grief like for most players but IF it were part of a single rule set then people trying it would be making the choice and not being forced to experience it. 

But a maze with empty vessels would definitly be fun and could make sense.

You would need to take one down to make it yours. (like the "default vessel" they said you can get in some rule-set)

Edited by Skyinou

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