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The Big Reveal: Crows and vessels - Official discussion thread

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The only aspect from EVE that I see heavy influence from is the "Vessel" concept where we play as a suit of armor and EVEers play as a ship. Beyond that I don't see a lot of EVE in CF. 

 

  • Real time skill progression at the account level (with EVE characters being essential Crowfall accounts)
  • Character skills that transfer to whatever vessel/ship you are in, though are affected or pared down by that vessel/ship
  • A heavy focus on "hardcore" PvP
  • Full (or nearly so) loot and item destruction or decay
  • In game actions and decisions having meaningful and lasting consequences
  • Player driven economy with most items being player craftable
  • Player driven narratives with in game events coming from us, not from developer fiat
  • Sandbox style MMO with many divers options for play
  • Player run guilds/corporations that can conquer and control space
  • The ability for players to develop the space they control
  • Political intrigue, diplomacy, and war
  • The ability to pay real money for an in game item that gives games time, or can be traded to other players for stuff
  • The fact that Crowfall was marketed as being EVE meets a bunch of other awesome stuff

Should I go on?

Edited by shamelessPuck

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Again that last point sort of underscores this whole argument. They introduced Crowfall as "EVE meets Game of Thrones"... so if you are upset about EVE elements being within Crowfall, you are nuts. They advertised this game as such.

 

A little disingenuous to be upset about discovering EVE elements within Crowfall at this point isn't it?

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Did you not read what he said ?

Would you like to provide any evidence that I didn't? 

 

Or even better, would you like to address what I said?

Edited by VIKINGNAIL

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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Thank you sir, the mind is old and dusty, I was short sighted in my vessel wallow. Allow me to comment on a few of them. 

 

 

  • Real time skill progression at the account level (with EVE characters being essential Crowfall accounts) Agree
  • Character skills that transfer to whatever vessel/ship you are in, though are affected or pared down by that vessel/ship Agree
  • A heavy focus on "hardcore" PvP. I dunno about this, hardcore to me doesn't mean 100% safe EKs. In EVE your never safe even in Null. 
  • Full (or nearly so) loot and item destruction or decay. For this one I think of the all father UO not EVE but yeah it has this and so does EVE. Agree
  • In game actions and decisions having meaningful and lasting consequences. I'm not sure how lasting or meaningful they are without the shared Universe EVE pulled off. I'm not clear enough on the concept to know if CF will find a way to make the universe feel shared, its probably EVE's most unique and retentive trick. Ive never seen another game do it. This one is unanswered for me.
  • Player driven economy with most items being player craftable Agree
  • Player driven narratives with in game events coming from us, not from developer fiatb I'm not sure if this one will happen or not. It will be interesting to see if some rule sets create this while some don't etc. I'm excited to see how players react under each unique set.
  • Sandbox style MMO with many diverse options for play. I don't think of CF as a sandbox as of yet. If it plays or feels like a sandbox is still unanswered for me. With what we know I see it more like Planetside with more depth. (maybe that IS a sandbox hehe) 
  • Player run guilds/corporations that can conquer and control space I don't think this is similar either, CF does this entirely different with EKs and also with dying worlds. In EVE a corp can take over a section for as long as they can hold it, but are never fully safe. Its a much more hardcore system imo.
  • The ability for players to develop the space they control See above. Once you make the space so safe, it just doesn't work as "from EVE" to me. The campaigns resetting does the same. Its the long standing control over a permanent space that is never truly safe or permanently in your grasp that helps make EVE so exciting.
  • Political intrigue, diplomacy, and war I'm not sold on this yet either. EVE has the shared universe which enables lots of espionage, I'm not sure how this will translate to CF via EKs. Again it depends of they can create the shared Uni which is something I'm not even sure you can be sure about until it launches (or maybe hits late beta).  
  • The ability to pay real money for an in game item that gives games time, or can be traded to other players for stuff. Agree
  • The fact that Crowfall was marketed as being EVE meets a bunch of other awesome stuff. Heh, yeah but ya know, marketing is marketing. Even ACE had trouble deciding what to market this beast as. Still looking for that catch phrase, I failed miserably at brain storming one.

 

 

 

Thanks for the reply. /nods


I role play a wordsmith.

 

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Thank you sir, the mind is old and dusty, I was short sighted in my vessel wallow. Allow me to comment on a few of them. 

 

 

Thanks for the reply. /nods

In most of my bullet points I'm comparing EVE to a given campaign in Crowfall.  I understand that the dying worlds aspect is a decided difference from EVE, but as far as the actual gameplay goes it makes sense to talk about events within one CW, understanding that there are some new aspects due to multiple, finite length campaigns.  The EK thing still mostly feels tacked on top, so I am largely ignoring it for now when discussing this stuff.

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  • Sandbox style MMO with many divers options for play

 

 

I'm really hoping this one sticks around. I played EVE for 9 years including beta, and the options for play got smaller, and smaller, and smaller. By the time I quit, you had to be in constant conflict, or there just wasn't any room for you on the server.

 

When I started, there was cooperation, collaboration and the ability to just do your own thing. By the time I quit, it was do what we tell you or the whole guild/alliance dies. And if you wanted to go solo, good luck! No one to buy from you and you're blown up in bluespace or redspace since there's no one to avenge you. That was not fun.

Edited by bairloch

I'm in this for the Experience, not the XP.

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My only concern is not being able to play the classes I want, at the very least the sub classes.

 

There was a shot with Tully crafting a vessel, and on the left there were a few knight subclasses. What I got from this is that not only are vessels pre-set to a class, but also a sub-class. So if I were picky, there would be a 1/52 chance of even getting the subclass I want, nevermind if the vessel is even good or not. I would really like to have the option to select a sub-class when I enter a vessel. Perhaps that vessel would be locked to a sub-class once it was actually entered, or only locked to a sub-class per account. This would prevent people from swapping sub-class on the fly, if that would be an issue.

 

On the other extreme of the 1/52 chance would be to only set vessels per race, giving players a 1/8 chance to get the class and sub class they want. Not that I'm advocating for that.

I do not think finding vessels of any certain class will be difficult.  It will be finding vessels of higher quality in the class you like that will take some time grinding in tombs that drop that class vessel...   or grinding cash to buy it from a crafter.


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                                                        Sugoi - Senpai

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-Don't think there will be a "prior to" in game. see below

-See above

-You are given the offer after you are killed. That's how they get you. Your options are 1. death or 2. eternal life (read the fine print)

 

Well if the comics illustrate how it's going to work in game, it would be a mortal hero who takes oath to a God, making his soul eternal.

 

Otherwise, how would it work? If we first log in the game as a crow, it would mean (according to the comics) that our character has already met the God and accepted the offer. But isn't it at this moment that the players are supposed to choose the God they'll fight for? Maybe I missed something

Edited by courant101

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Well if the comics illustrate how it's going to work in game, it's a mortal hero who takes oath to a God and has its soul made eternal.

 

Otherwise, how would it work? If we first log in the game as a crow, it would mean (according to the comics) that the step when our character takes oath to a God has already happened. But this moment is also when we're supposed to pick the God we'll fight for. Maybe I missed something

 

No, you don't log into the game as a crow. They stated you make a shell at creation. That's what you log in with. And you can keep it if you wish. That is either (according to you) your old shell again, or the first one you stole. But the pledge and gifting of eternal life all happen before you log in the first time.

 

​The comic lays it out. "My life ended just as it started, in pain and blood and light. Not my first, certainly not my last. His offer was simple, eternal life for eternal service." His life ended, he was offered the choice. That's where we come in. As a deader, reborn in service as a warrior, pledged to a god.

Edited by bairloch

I'm in this for the Experience, not the XP.

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No, you don't log into the game as a crow. They stated you make a shell at creation. That's what you log in with. And you can keep it if you wish. That is either (according to you) your old shell again, or the first one you stole. But the pledge and gifting of eternal life all happen before you log in the first time.

 

Ok so the choice of the God and the transformation into Eternal Hero would happen before the player first enter the world. I don't remember them talking about the shell at creation, you got a link? There's this message from ACE but it's not giving much details on the first character we'll use.

 

 

[...] For those of who you are thinking about this from a roleplaying perspective (bless you!), keep in mind that there is a reason that I wanted to reveal this idea in a graphic-novel format.  The archetype narratives are (generally) written with the idea of the character's "first life" in mind -- if my origin was a Knight, that experience shaped my personality from the beginning of my "life" as a Crow.  How will I handle the idea of trading my freedom to the Gods for the promise of immortal life?  Now that I see what the deal entails, do I feel cheated?  How would I feel about the idea of changing mortal forms / bodies?  

 

 

Some individuals might find the idea of changing skins repellant (or at the least, extremely disquieting). I can imagine a personality type that would stick with their original body, repairing it and never wanting to leave it because of fear of the unknown (and, perhaps, fear of losing themselves.)

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Ok so the choice of the God and the transformation into Eternal Hero would happen before the player first enter the world. I don't remember them talking about the shell at creation, you got a link? There's this message from ACE but it's not giving much details on the first character we'll use.

 

 

 

This, mostly.

 

"The character creation process works as it did before, only the process is now integrated directly into gameplay (not a separate process, like most MMOs)."

 

​Though I see now I could have been reading too much into it. He could have been talking about the actual process of creating a vessel (picking how it looks) as "character creation" every time you craft or activate one...

 

​But "works as it did before" still makes me think you create a shell at first login and don't log in as a crow right off the bat.


I'm in this for the Experience, not the XP.

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And this is the one I am wondering about the most.  It's pretty reasonable to assume that there will be disciplines that increase you max in a crafting skill (since we have seen similar disciplines for other skill), but has there been any mention of recipes at all, let alone disciplines that give you more?

 

 

Discipline runes can increase your skill max with certain skills, grant access to new skills and powers, grant you new crafting recipes, or give you the ability to master weapon types that are normally restricted.

Source http://crowfall.com/en/news/character-progression/

 

As to my assumption about Forgemasters having an advantage: http://www.northlanders.rocks/index.php?thread/259-03-12-15-12k-backers-crafting-faq-part-2/

 

 

How do players get access to advanced crafting?

 

Our system is very freeform! Each of the Archetypes in Crowfall has an initial package of skills, and some of the Archetypes have specific crafting skills in their package. For example, the Forgemaster starting skill package has some initial blacksmithing skill and recipes. As the character progresses and engages in Campaigns they will discover Discipline Runestones such as Weaponsmith, or Armorsmith. As you pick up new Disciplines, that opens up new skills and new recipes.  

Edited by shadowfang1992

Can we have a Bard? If not as an Archetype or Promotion, then maybe a Discipline?


i-3ZQNFxh.jpg

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Gonna have to double-post because it keeps messing up, but as to my assumption about Advantages/Disadvantages, it is based on the one truth that remains rather consistent in most games: Stats affect skills either directly or indirectly. Whether they just increase skill damage or allow you to equip more types of armor, stats are important, and Advantages/Disadvantages affect stats, which leads me to assume that they affect crafting. If CF decides not to go this route of "stats mean something", I will be GREATLY surprised.


Can we have a Bard? If not as an Archetype or Promotion, then maybe a Discipline?


i-3ZQNFxh.jpg

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I'm really hoping this one sticks around. I played EVE for 9 years including beta, and the options for play got smaller, and smaller, and smaller. By the time I quit, you had to be in constant conflict, or there just wasn't any room for you on the server.

 

When I started, there was cooperation, collaboration and the ability to just do your own thing. By the time I quit, it was do what we tell you or the whole guild/alliance dies. And if you wanted to go solo, good luck! No one to buy from you and you're blown up in bluespace or redspace since there's no one to avenge you. That was not fun.

 

Indeed, I hope thee is a place for the lonely smuggler hauling his goods in CF.


I role play a wordsmith.

 

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Indeed, I hope thee is a place for the lonely smuggler hauling his goods in CF.

Ace originally told us that it was possible to play lone wolf but you wouldn't get the best out of the game if you did.

 

I see that being a lone wolf now would be most difficult. Not impossible but certainly struggle street.


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So did ACE just make a Necromancer into a crafting profession?

YES  probably a most coveted crafter.  The real question will be the qualities and numbers of materials for this crafting tree a the amount of secret formulas that will produce unique results that make unique builds.  We still do not know how all weapons will tie to stats...  like in SB where spears were dex base not str so to min max both your vessel and its disciplines to a particular weapon and skill set may take a very good necromancer and certain mats.


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                                                        Sugoi - Senpai

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This, mostly.

 

"The character creation process works as it did before, only the process is now integrated directly into gameplay (not a separate process, like most MMOs)."

 

​Though I see now I could have been reading too much into it. He could have been talking about the actual process of creating a vessel (picking how it looks) as "character creation" every time you craft or activate one...

 

​But "works as it did before" still makes me think you create a shell at first login and don't log in as a crow right off the bat.

 

Ah yes ok, I read it before but didn't really pay attention, thanks for taking the time to find it.

 

I guess we'll be given more details on this subject eventually, I'll have to patient until then!

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This, mostly.

 

"The character creation process works as it did before, only the process is now integrated directly into gameplay (not a separate process, like most MMOs)."

 

​Though I see now I could have been reading too much into it. He could have been talking about the actual process of creating a vessel (picking how it looks) as "character creation" every time you craft or activate one...

 

​But "works as it did before" still makes me think you create a shell at first login and don't log in as a crow right off the bat.

No, you will log-in as a crow and we will likely get a set of generic common quality vessels of the base archetypes already in our inventory to immediately use for joining the IKs or campaigns.


6FUI4Mk.jpg

                                                        Sugoi - Senpai

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Something about the change seems to imply a fighting fire with fire motif. Before the reveal the undead were the enemy. Now you are a spirit that inhabits corpses in order to do the gods bidding against the big bad with legions of zombies at their disposal. I suppose it makes sense that the undead in the campaign worlds result from the erosion of the soul, whereas as a crow you are plugging in the parts that are missing. So if your vessel gets mutilated on the battlefield will you be able to take over any zombie walking around? Possibly use that zombie that finished off your vessel to drag it back to the crafting station to fix it up?

Edited by youma

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Sekket on Mourning. Bhorov on Test Server. Youma the Pirate wherever TSP has sailed.

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