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The Big Reveal: Crows and vessels - Official discussion thread

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2 Questions;

 

How will this work in the EKs?

 

Are we now able to bunny hop campaigns or are we still locked into the one we pick?


I role play a wordsmith.

 

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Are we now able to bunny hop campaigns or are we still locked into the one we pick?

I'm curious about this as well. My very limited understanding is that vessels are campaign-locked, but accounts are not? So you can enter as many campaigns as you want but just need vessels to actually be able to do anything in them? Also, since vessels are bound by import-export rules, does that mean that 0 import campaigns have to be entered in Crow form and you have to find a vessel, or can you enter into it with an equipped vessel and nothing else?


Can we have a Bard? If not as an Archetype or Promotion, then maybe a Discipline?


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I'm curious about this as well. My very limited understanding is that vessels are campaign-locked, but accounts are not? So you can enter as many campaigns as you want but just need vessels to actually be able to do anything in them? Also, since vessels are bound by import-export rules, does that mean that 0 import campaigns have to be entered in Crow form and you have to find a vessel, or can you enter into it with an equipped vessel and nothing else?

Graveyards will have default vessels of a sorts.  I imagine a 0 import campaign you will go in as a crow and have to move right to the graveyard and spawn.

 

As for moving between campaigns, they will have to let us do so.  Locking people into a single one will kill it for many players.  As pointed out, vessels are gear and you will need at least one separate vessel per campaign you want to be in.  You should not be able to remove a vessel until the campaign ends or possibly if you kneel out.

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Graveyards will have default vessels of a sorts.  I imagine a 0 import campaign you will go in as a crow and have to move right to the graveyard and spawn.

 

As for moving between campaigns, they will have to let us do so.  Locking people into a single one will kill it for many players.  As pointed out, vessels are gear and you will need at least one separate vessel per campaign you want to be in.  You should not be able to remove a vessel until the campaign ends or possibly if you kneel out.

 

Weren't our characters locked in before the vessel switch? I thought it was part of choices meaning something stuff? Then again we had alts so technically I suppose its not different?


I role play a wordsmith.

 

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Weren't our characters locked in before the vessel switch? I thought it was part of choices meaning something stuff? Then again we had alts so technically I suppose its not different?

I know, that's why I'm confused. The way the update talks about it, it sounds like campaign-hopping might become a thing since vessels are what are campaign-bound, which sounds to me like our souls aren't. I mean, it was always planned to be possible to jump between the campaign your in and the EKs, you just couldn't take anything with you either way. Maybe that'll still be the case? I mean, they were very interested in doing a "pay to lose" system where if you wanted out of a campaign you entered you had to give up something, maybe more than just your Embargo. It would be very strange if this changed, but that's what I picked up from it. I am really, REALLY hoping I'm wrong on this one. Campaign-locked characters was actually something I was in full support of... But I guess if they simply place a limit on the number of campaigns you can be active in that would be OK too.


Can we have a Bard? If not as an Archetype or Promotion, then maybe a Discipline?


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I know, that's why I'm confused. The way the update talks about it, it sounds like campaign-hopping might become a thing since vessels are what are campaign-bound, which sounds to me like our souls aren't. I mean, it was always planned to be possible to jump between the campaign your in and the EKs, you just couldn't take anything with you either way. Maybe that'll still be the case? I mean, they were very interested in doing a "pay to lose" system where if you wanted out of a campaign you entered you had to give up something, maybe more than just your Embargo. It would be very strange if this changed, but that's what I picked up from it. I am really, REALLY hoping I'm wrong on this one. Campaign-locked characters was actually something I was in full support of... But I guess if they simply place a limit on the number of campaigns you can be active in that would be OK too.

Agree. MMOs need more consequences to create meaning.


I role play a wordsmith.

 

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Can we spell out what is bad about campaign hopping?  For [almost] every campaign somebody leaves, they are joining another one, right?  I think you want people to be able to seek out the best CWs for themselves.  Everything imported and created in a CW is stuck there until the CW ends, and is subject to import/export, win/fealty/loss, too.

 

I guess what I am saying is...okay, they are stuck in the CW - and they deem that there is more to be gained by leaving...if devs say "No," won't they just quit?

 

Also are we missing the benefits of having people come to the world toward the end of the access time? Like Tulkas who shifts the balance.

Edited by mctan

Mic MWH, Member of Mithril Warhammers since 2003,


Hammers High! http://www.mithrilwarhammers.com

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For those that don't realize it, campaign hopping will be expensive. If you want to have any sort of ability level when you log in, you'll have to have a decent shell, decent equipment and some materials. Do that in 5, 10, 20 campaigns and we're talking about quite a stash of stuff in your EK. But how will you have this stash? Getting stuff OUT of campaigns will depend on how much time and effort you put into the campaign. So if you hop, and never spend any time in each campaign, you won't get anything back out of it. So you won't have a stash. So you won't have the ability to hop.

Unless you treat every campaign like a dregs campaign and go in Terminator. Then, yeah, you can hop hop hop, but you still won't get anything out of it and you'll be at a serious disadvantage to the people that focus.


I'm in this for the Experience, not the XP.

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For those that don't realize it, campaign hopping will be expensive. If you want to have any sort of ability level when you log in, you'll have to have a decent shell, decent equipment and some materials. Do that in 5, 10, 20 campaigns and we're talking about quite a stash of stuff in your EK. But how will you have this stash? Getting stuff OUT of campaigns will depend on how much time and effort you put into the campaign. So if you hop, and never spend any time in each campaign, you won't get anything back out of it. So you won't have a stash. So you won't have the ability to hop.

Unless you treat every campaign like a dregs campaign and go in Terminator. Then, yeah, you can hop hop hop, but you still won't get anything out of it and you'll be at a serious disadvantage to the people that focus.

This is true as well. I guess in the end it is definitely a personal preference. But, in ArtCraft's defense, it's not like I have to hop around to have fun playing. I think I'll just be one of the more focused players. And if my guild commands me to hop, I'll demand they provide me with a proper vessel and work-space. I am a crafter after all B)


Can we have a Bard? If not as an Archetype or Promotion, then maybe a Discipline?


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Perhaps ACE are pretty clever because with all the design changes they've made the game is actually entering into a weird place where while certain rulesets that we might deem more hardcore were obviously perceived as being more hardcore... the campaigns with more emphasis on import and export may end up being more hardcore in other ways because they rely much more on the persistent element and playing the meta game than the little to no import type bands where you don't really have to care too much about the result because you are going back in with little to no import next time anyway. 

 

With archetypes becoming an item it just adds more intrigue to those heavy import rulesets and it kinda makes me think there will be a shift in what people perceive as the truly hardcore games...

 

I predict something like a shadows band high import type ruleset that allows persistent elements from the EK to factor in to become the most popular type of combination.


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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Perhaps ACE are pretty clever because with all the design changes they've made the game is actually entering into a weird place where while certain rulesets that we might deem more hardcore were obviously perceived as being more hardcore... the campaigns with more emphasis on import and export may end up being more hardcore in other ways because they rely much more on the persistent element and playing the meta game than the little to no import type bands where you don't really have to care too much about the result because you are going back in with little to no import next time anyway. 

 

With archetypes becoming an item it just adds more intrigue to those heavy import rulesets and it kinda makes me think there will be a shift in what people perceive as the truly hardcore games...

 

I predict something like a shadows band high import type ruleset that allows persistent elements from the EK to factor in to become the most popular type of combination.

I think this may end up being true.  No import removes a layer of choice, rather than adding any complexity.

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I think this may end up being true.  No import removes a layer of choice, rather than adding any complexity.

I think it's going to create a very interesting feeder system where guilds are playing dregs to get those rare mats for their import campaigns and such... it's also clever in that by encouraging people through systems to play in a few different types of campaigns that will supplement each other in one way or another... you are also bombarding them with several different gameplay experiences due to the nature of the different rulesets... which is more likely to keep people interested and prevent them from getting bored. 


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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I'm hoping we will see something like a meta-campaign strategy, where the larger, super-organized alliances (like EVE-size) send strike teams into outer bands and dregs for resources, then use those gains to crush each other in shadows bands. Would add some long-term strategic gameplay.


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I think some of the choice to implement the vessel system and the campaign hopping system implemented will have an effect on the ability to mass market RMT. I mean that these choices should make it easier for ACE to combat it. Am I wrong?


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"I don't know what I don't know" -Me

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I want to play a game on a full server from the beginning to almost the end, where players are fighting until it's really over.

 

Make campaign hopping too easy, and people will quit the moment they realize they're getting behind.

Edited by Fenris DDevil

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Weren't our characters locked in before the vessel switch? I thought it was part of choices meaning something stuff? Then again we had alts so technically I suppose its not different?

If you have multiple characters before, now you have multiple vessels in different campaigns.  It really is no difference.  The only thing I see is it may take longer if your crow has to "physically" travel to the EK then to a different campaign rather than simply going to a character select screen.

Edited by Savevsdeathmagic

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I want to play a game on a full server from the beginning to almost the end, where players are fighting until it's really over.

 

Make campaign hopping too easy, and people woulill quit the moment they realize they're getting behind.

 

Yep, is the battle grounds end up being arenas instead of worlds it will be as bad as FPSs. If they can make large worlds, big enough to "feel" like there is some reprieve in X area or Y area I dont think it will happen as much. Planetside does this decently. You might be losing in one area but winnig in another so it doesnt always feel hopeless, meaning leaving isnt the most logical answer to avoid loss. 


I role play a wordsmith.

 

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I want to play a game on a full server from the beginning to almost the end, where players are fighting until it's really over.

 

Make campaign hopping too easy, and people woulill quit the moment they realize they're getting behind.

 

I am with you, but I feel like this is where testing is so important.  Will everyone leave?  I mean you have a cost to leaving, since you have a lot of material invested and are no longer concerned with it (you could spend the final days trying to get everything to your embargo - and I suspect people will).

 

I am of the mind that, like most games, some will quit and some will fight.  You will never have a full server from beginning to nearly the end, IMO.

 

I'm willing to consider locking subscriptions per ruleset (maybe 1 per band active), but I think too much locking and you will just see the community population plummet.

 

Edit: I am somewhat playing devil's advocate here.  My guild will be in our campaigns til the bitter end.

Edited by mctan

Mic MWH, Member of Mithril Warhammers since 2003,


Hammers High! http://www.mithrilwarhammers.com

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Every player is an immortal, chosen by the gods to participate in an endless war to determine who shall be the King of the Gods.

 

 

Why would an immortal spirit want to participate in an endless war?  

 

Why would an immortal spirit want or need anything from a dying world?

 

Why would an immortal spirit need a God?

 

Why would an immortal spirit need or want anything?

 

Why would an immortal spirit EVER fear death?  Doesn't that make PVP and the game irrelevant?

 

 

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