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The Big Reveal: Crows and vessels - Official discussion thread

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With this change is there any plans to bring in promotion classes that are unlocked via training multiple archtypes ? Ie 75% of the normal trained skills to promote a confessor and 75% of the skills to promote a frostweaver giving a frostfire promotion class?

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This is extremely off putting to me. I am a player that just has one character and one class that I enjoy playing and will never play any other. So you are pretty much forcing people to play a set way, I very much dislike this. You are also making it seem like not only are you going to be grinding for exp and gear but now you are going to have to grind to get better characters? What is the point of creating a character? I'm sorry but I have been excited about this game but this makes me really question backing the game.

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Step into hardcore. Good :)

Now if only the game delivers on interesting combat / performance I will be happy to have  this addition.

 

So much this. I really like the crows and vessels idea. It adds a lot of possibilities. On the hardcore, vessel looting side of things... when the stake are high, wins and losses shouldn't feel arbitrary or lucky. Two players with equal "twitch" skills should be differentiate-able based on tactical skill, and vice versa. So I'm glad to see that AC is continuing to work on refining the combat system and combat "feel" for lack of a better descriptor.


The Shipwrecked Pirates

yarrr....

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I'll be completely honest. I think that skill train system is horrible.

 

I don't play eve today because I can't catch up. No mater how I play my skill progression is set. If I want to advance, I have to wait and waiting sucks.

 

Plus, it give no sense of accomplishment. IE:

 

I successfully smashed my opponent with my shield, it raises my skill!

Or

Next Tuesday I'll be max in shield skills. yeah!

 

Bag that **** like a babies loaded diaper and dump it in the trash.

Edited by ralinsilver

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This is extremely off putting to me. I am a player that just has one character and one class that I enjoy playing and will never play any other. So you are pretty much forcing people to play a set way, I very much dislike this. You are also making it seem like not only are you going to be grinding for exp and gear but now you are going to have to grind to get better characters? What is the point of creating a character? I'm sorry but I have been excited about this game but this makes me really question backing the game.

 

Sorry if I'm misunderstanding, but I'm really not sure where you figure that this system, or any of Crowfall's system involve a "grind". Gear is crafted or looted from other players, Skill training is passive (literally the opposite of grinding) and vessels are crafted, found or looted. There's nothing in this system that stops you from playing the archetype you've always wanted to play that I can see.

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I like the concept overall. Very unique and it should be very fun to be a skin walker  :D

 

Is anyone concerned that you can only belong to one guild at the account level? In most other MMOs guilds often have a tiered guild set up with alts running a feeder guild etc. Anyone else concerned about this not being possible with the one guild membership being at the account level? In addition it keeps the infiltration and intrigue piece of the game locked down in a way that may be negative.

 

Thoughts?

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Except that all skill training still persists with the character, so a crow with months of Swordsman training will be a much better Swordsman driver than someone who's hopping into one for the first time.

 

This is always going to be an issue. New player on a new Archetype will not know combos and subtleties of play. I see this in the Hunger Dome all the time. It takes people awhile to get good at an Archetype even those who have played lots a different Archetype. Yes they will have somewhat of a stat advantage but it wont be a level 1 vs a level 100 with a raid weapon kind of stat advantage.

 

Hopefully a vessel will not be just another inventory item. How big is my backpack, Warehouse 13 sized?

I should be able to move an empty vessel the same archetype as mine around without damaging it, but that should encumber me.

Maybe I can put a thrall in it and lead the corpse around like a packpig?

I should be able load several bodies onto a wagon and transport them to my repair POI (lab in any stronghold, Village tavern, mausoleum in a graveyard?) or to an embargo vault. 

In campaigns where I can pray to get my recently killed vessel back, how long does it take  for the body to disappear, leaving behind the items my god won't be letting me have back with the regenerated vessel?

 

 

My biggest question about this big change in the CF concept:

If training 3 toons at once was my only reason to use VIP tickets, why do I want to redeem them after launch?

This impacts the VIP token as a game currency also. 

 

Depends on how you look at it. In many ways it is more flexible and much more manageable. You could have taken those 3 toons into 1 campaign or 1 each into 3 campaigns and locked them in there for the duration. Now within any Campaign you essentially have them all. 

 

 

Ok, that leads me to another question. If new archetypes as they are introduced are supposed to be accessible to VIP players a month before non-VIP, how will this work with the new system? If they're crafted or found, what's stopping a non-VIP from getting them? If they're delivered to an account in-box, how many do they get? If they get it looted, can a non-VIP loot it and use it early? If the vessel is lost, is the VIP player out of luck?

 

Think of each vessel having a required to equip check, you can jump into a basic Archetype but can't jump into a Crusader unless you have trained something into the Crusader Proficiency skill box.

 

 

I am also struggling with how a vessel can be an inventory item.  How do I carry around an extra body or two?  If I get killed, the victors can loot my extra vessels I was carrying.

 

From what I glean from the FAQ and OP, my vessels are actually stored in a tomb and not carried on me? Then what prevents my tomb from getting looted?

 

We have been talking about it like it is a bank that only the crow can see for imported vessels. For vessels you acquire in the campaign they are at risk (assuming the ruleset allows corpse looting) as long as they are in your inventory and haven't been deposited into a tomb.

 

There seems to be much assumption that you are going to lose vessels after a death or two, and this seems awfully harsh, unless you are playing in the Shadows/Dregs Campaigns. I would guess for the majority of folks in the outer bands (they are nice people who backed us too!) a CR is pretty much like it is in most MMO's. (ie you run back and get your stuff and there is a minor decay hit

 


Thomas Blair
ArtCraft Entertainment, Inc.
Follow us on Twitter 
@CrowfallGame | Like us on Facebook
 

 

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I'll be completely honest. I think that skill train system is horrible.

 

I don't play eve today because I can't catch up. No mater how I play my skill progression is set. If I want to advance, I have to wait and waiting sucks.

 

Plus, it give no sense of accomplishment. IE:

 

I successfully smashed my opponent with my shield, it raises my skill!

Or

Next Tuesday I'll be max in shield skills. yeah!

 

Bag that **** like a babies loaded diaper and dump it in the trash.

You will be able to contribute with your crow very soon into playing any archetype (devs say almost immediately).

Your crow will be competitive with the best in your chosen archetype in a matter of months (maybe 2 or 3) with help from your guildmates.

(hopefully) Your crow can max out his skills in a class for an archetype reasonably soon after that.

Continued play should allow your crow to max out skills for every class possible for your chosen archetype reasonably soon after that (maybe 6 more months).

 

Cross-training to other archetypes or training with many different discipline runes would likely slow your development, but raise flexibility.

Edited by chancellor

I think the K-Mart of MMO's already exists!  And it ain't us!   :)

 

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Sorry if I'm misunderstanding, but I'm really not sure where you figure that this system, or any of Crowfall's system involve a "grind". Gear is crafted or looted from other players, Skill training is passive (literally the opposite of grinding) and vessels are crafted, found or looted. There's nothing in this system that stops you from playing the archetype you've always wanted to play that I can see.

 

Why wouldn't you be grinding?  You have to get mats now to not only make gear, but now you have to make a vessels and they new have rarity. How and why does a character need rarity? Reading this it tells me that ok, you want to play one character, and one archetype that isn't going to be possible. You are going to have to always be getting new characters. What is so bad about just making a character, picking an archetype and playing the game. If you die you just go back to the char that you made and that is your char. Why are you know having to find some other char, what happens when you can't find a char with the archetype that you play? Are you forced to play a different one?  Is it going to be a thing that now players aren't going to want to play with other players that don't have a rare vessel? Sorry but I hate the idea that I die and I can't go back to the char that I made when I started the game.   

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Wait, wait, wait... How does this factor in for the lore about the classes themselves? The Fae Assassin had a pretty distinct personality from her blurb, and an extremely misandristic outlook -- is that the avatar influencing the personality of the inhabiting spirit, or is that the crow themself that just held such an opinion, and thus the character blurbs aren't specific? Or is it neither, and merely the identity of the living character before they died and the crow claimed the body?

The character blurbs are just examples.

That's where the RPG part of MMORPG comes in. Maybe your Fae will be a sultry seductress or your Knight may be a wandering swordsman, bodyguard for a price.

Just gotta engage that grey matter.


231e101d88.jpg

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Why wouldn't you be grinding?  You have to get mats now to not only make gear, but now you have to make a vessels and they new have rarity. How and why does a character need rarity? Reading this it tells me that ok, you want to play one character, and one archetype that isn't going to be possible. You are going to have to always be getting new characters. What is so bad about just making a character, picking an archetype and playing the game. If you die you just go back to the char that you made and that is your char. Why are you know having to find some other char, what happens when you can't find a char with the archetype that you play? Are you forced to play a different one?  Is it going to be a thing that now players aren't going to want to play with other players that don't have a rare vessel? Sorry but I hate the idea that I die and I can't go back to the char that I made when I started the game.   

 

It's my understanding that the only two types of campaigns where you can even lose a character is the Shadow and The Dregs. The rest you just go back to your body. That being said, I suppose if you choose to see your character as only the body you occupy, I can see why this might bother you.

Edited by arawulf

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It's my understanding that the only two types of campaigns where you can even lose a character is the Shadow and The Dregs. The rest you just go back to your body. That being said, I suppose if you choose to see your character as only the body you occupy, I can see why this might bother you.

 

That is not how it sounds. 

Edited by kuroaka

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That is not how it sounds. 

 

Blair just shared this above: "There seems to be much assumption that you are going to lose vessels after a death or two, and this seems awfully harsh, unless you are playing in the Shadows/Dregs Campaigns. I would guess for the majority of folks in the outer bands (they are nice people who backed us too!) a CR is pretty much like it is in most MMO's. (ie you run back and get your stuff and there is a minor decay hit) "

 

As far as the "decay" portion, I suppose it depends if there is a repair function for the vessel. I'm not sure about that. Again, as I mentioned, I can see how some may choose to view their character only as the specific body their character is occupying then I see how this may bother them. While I don't agree with this view, I respect it.

Edited by arawulf

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I don't have the time to outline all of the information provided, but I did want to share the Thomas Blair interview he did with Crowns and Crows earlier tonight.  Lots of great answers to quite a few questions.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJPA7kunB5A

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This is extremely off putting to me. I am a player that just has one character and one class that I enjoy playing and will never play any other. So you are pretty much forcing people to play a set way, I very much dislike this. You are also making it seem like not only are you going to be grinding for exp and gear but now you are going to have to grind to get better characters? What is the point of creating a character? I'm sorry but I have been excited about this game but this makes me really question backing the game.

 

Interesting interpretation. If you enjoy playing one class for example the Knight, then you can totally do that.

You can train all the Knight skills in the Knight Archetype tree and only train weapon and armor skills in the Combat portion of the General Skill trees. This would over a period of time give you a Knight who has all the statistical advantages the system provides(minus promotions), and you don't need to use VIP tickets.

 

However:

Maybe one day you decide it might be fun to have stealth on your Knight so train some stealth skills in the Exploration portion of the General Skill tress and then add a stealth Discipline to your kit. Or you fancy yourself a Scout Knight so you ditch all your plate gear, train the leather armor skills, train some scout skills in exploration and equip some scout Disciplines. The examples go on and on. This all leads to Knights who are very different from each other, and then they can promote. So the Stealthy Knight could use those same skills on a Crusader/Sentinel/Swordsman Vessels. 

 

Your "one" character really is your Crow. More skills means more options in what you could bring to battle as well as your utility.   


Thomas Blair
ArtCraft Entertainment, Inc.
Follow us on Twitter 
@CrowfallGame | Like us on Facebook
 

 

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They're not corpses, they are happy spirit blue prints!

 

Now that we know Crows are supernaturally possessed puppets, it opens up tremendous role-playing potential.

 

chucky-350x234.jpg

Edited by cemya

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Interesting interpretation. If you enjoy playing one class for example the Knight, then you can totally do that.

You can train all the Knight skills in the Knight Archetype tree and only train weapon and armor skills in the Combat portion of the General Skill trees. This would over a period of time give you a Knight who has all the statistical advantages the system provides(minus promotions), and you don't need to use VIP tickets.

 

However:

Maybe one day you decide it might be fun to have stealth on your Knight so train some stealth skills in the Exploration portion of the General Skill tress and then add a stealth Discipline to your kit. Or you fancy yourself a Scout Knight so you ditch all your plate gear, train the leather armor skills, train some scout skills in exploration and equip some scout Disciplines. The examples go on and on. This all leads to Knights who are very different from each other, and then they can promote. So the Stealthy Knight could use those same skills on a Crusader/Sentinel/Swordsman Vessels. 

 

Your "one" character really is your Crow. More skills means more options in what you could bring to battle as well as your utility.   

 

I don't think the main issue is branching out into different skill trees.  I think some see a problem with playing multiple vessels of even the same archetype, and even advancing (again) the skills on each body if one is somehow destroyed, taken or lost.  Do I have that right?  Also, If it is the case that players will have to abandon their vessels to get newer, shinier ones, then that potentially causes some serious disturbance in the RPG force.  And before anyone says "well, you don't have to..." just stop.  This is a competitive PvP game and most people wont purposely gimp themselves.  At best, they'll begrudging ditch their vessel to advance and likely feel unhappy about it.   This question/concern is currently very valid:

 

In traditional (mmo)RPGs players identify and "become" the character they control, will try to make it progress, make it survive, love it, etc. How will CF players identify to the Crow or disposable corpses? 

 

Would it be possible for you to explain to us just how you envision this happening, if you do envisioning it happening in CF according to the current game design?  Thanks!          


The Artist Formerly Known as Regulus

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I am very interested to see how this system actual works. To see an actual functional account skill tree is the only way I think we will get an accurate grasp to how this system is truly going to function

 

Also based on the quote below you could cause some serious balance issues with this type of system. This system could make pvp a complete mess which would be crushing in a game so focused on pvp. Being able to mix and match classes seems like a great idea in concept but in almost every instance it ends up causing massive imbalances. Obviously will have to see it in action before we can see if it will be an issue.

 

However:

Maybe one day you decide it might be fun to have stealth on your Knight so train some stealth skills in the Exploration portion of the General Skill tress and then add a stealth Discipline to your kit. Or you fancy yourself a Scout Knight so you ditch all your plate gear, train the leather armor skills, train some scout skills in exploration and equip some scout Disciplines. The examples go on and on. This all leads to Knights who are very different from each other, and then they can promote. So the Stealthy Knight could use those same skills on a Crusader/Sentinel/Swordsman Vessels. 

 

Your "one" character really is your Crow. More skills means more options in what you could bring to battle as well as your utility.   

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