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The Big Reveal: Crows and vessels - Official discussion thread

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Interesting concept, however here's why I am currently disliking it:

 

I will never feel attached to any character since they are just vessels now. They will never feel like "me". This just makes it all feel extremely shallow and boring to me personally. I'm the kind of guy that usually only plays 1-2 characters but now I will probably be indirectly forced to constantly swap into vessels that are better for the situation and/or have higher/better stats, despite me maybe not liking their playstyle.

 

In addition to that, as a min/maxer I now also feel like I will again be "forced" to have every single "top tier" vessel ready at any moment. I would suggest that you implement some sort of system so you can't just hot-swap all the time because it's not gonna be fun for anyone to constantly swap and/or restock 50 different vessels for that 5 hour siege battle.


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Details aside, this solves literally my biggest problem with this game. I was in dismay when I first heard that each account would be pretty much locked to a single archetype. Okay, sure, 3 character slots, but if I wanted to try out a 4th archetype, I'd have to permanently lose all progress on one, and if I ever wanted to return to that one, I'd have to start all over. I can not stress enough how I much I hate starting from 0 again.

(The reason for even wanting to switch archetypes is that... well, I'm sure you all know how balance patches can have a drastic impact on how classes perform. It is inevitable that at one point, the power shifts one way and some other way some other time.)

 

So, whatever the accompanying details and little issues this system brings, I'll personally always be happy that it will be implemented.

Edited by Torn

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Interesting concept idea!

 

Does this even still make multiple charactor slots necessary or are they almost obsolete?

This is a bit close to the system of Firefall.

Where your class is bound to your battleframe you wear, which you can change anytime and customize at a battleframestation.

 

Can I select for common until advanced corpses I possess (different raritys/qualitys of corpses; also difference between found corpses and crafted corpses), which archetype and promotion class they are? And if yes, will they have a variety of 4 or 5 options of archetypes I can choose of, or can I choose of all archetypes available (13)?

 

This is so scary, kinda like the old man (Genryuusai) used his bankai, or this Necro Quincy.

This was so scary already, zombies are so scary.

I was only able to watch and read Sankarea, because it was really funny and good... .

The zombies in One Piece and Naruto werent so scary too...

Edited by Urahara

After EverQuest Next is gone, its Star Citizen for me.

 

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But if that is the case, couldn't you achieve the same thing by standard character progression without having to inhabit a new body?  Luke from Tatooine cannot become Luke the Jedi.  The spirit of Luke has to leave the naive moisture farmer and then inhabit a Jedi body, presumably crafted by Ani Skywalker in the prequel--and he would drive it around like a Gundam until he eventually wrecked it.  Maybe then he'll try out a Sith?         

 

I'd argue, in this case, that what character progression cannot achieve is a version of permadeath which doesn't alienate players completely after the fact. Is there a loss, sure, that's tough. But it makes you actually care about keeping your character alive instead of running head first into danger expecting to respawn with a few debuffs or decay and going at it again. This "fear of loss" adds more to the game's depth than it might take on a superficial level. I feel, at least.

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well I'm a little bit concerned about graveyard camping and spawn killing but I didn't read everything in detail so that might change it or not. Also I know that this isn't the only possibility to respawn. 

 

Still I like the approach. Looking forward to see&hear more. 

Edited by Thyr

You get the wolves...lots of wolves...and sheep that wear armor and have developed an appetite for blood soaked grass - dubanka

Even insects smell good when roasted - a random confessor

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well I'm a little bit concerned about graveyard camping and spawn killing but I didn't read everything in detail so that might change it or not. Also I know that this isn't the only possibility to respawn.

I think Graveyards were already a POI for, what we thought, a place to respawn. Having control over a Graveyard was already a beneficial strategic advantage. Now with the vessel system these Graveyards could function as a resource factory for vessels as well? Not sure if that's the case though, I still need to watch the C&C podcast from last night which could give me some more answers I'm seeking.


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To say the least, I am disappointed. So possessing different bodies was it, that is the whole system? Sure it affects a lot of the different systems but It really doesn't add anything new to the game all it does is allow us to be able to skill and play any character in the game. What I thought of when I first saw the article was pokemon, guess we gotta catch em all? I just feel cheated by this reveal, I feel like the game just turned into a wild dress up party. 

 

However, I am excited to role play by myself by switching between my heap of dead bodies that I carry around.

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Very cool. Also makes it easy to add archetypes later without forcing people to reroll to play them.

 

My only concern is too much RNG in the vessel crafting process. If I and some other guy put in the same components to craft a Confessor, and he comes up 15% better than I do for no reason other than luck, that really sucks.

This mentality is due to the "everyone is a winner" type attitude kids are raised with now a days. Not everyone gets a trophie.


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I'm not a roleplayer, can some help me understand the problems?

I am respecting them, I don't want to sound sarcastic (so sorry if I sound like that, I don't want to).

 

As I understood, if you want to roleplay, you have:

 

-permadeath or reincarnation in "HC" campaigns [if you lose your vessel you're dead or you must reincarnate, with all your memories (skill levels) from your past {like *insert random reincarnation-themed chinese wuxia/xianxia webnovel*}]

 

-optional reincarnation in "non-HC" campaigns [if you die, you can choose to resurrect yourself (with a small penalty?) {like other mmos?} or you can reincarnate]

 

-soul/driver-based RP, where you are the soul/driver of a body/vessel {like roleplaying as a driver/pilot in race/simulation games?}

 

What I can see is that you can't roleplay as a character in HC environment and that you can't "max out" yourself without reincarnation (if your starter vessel is not a legendary überoverpowered one, you must get one to be "maxed"), which I see as "HC-roleplaying", you are the "average guy" in a world of superheroes, sacraficing power for roleplay.

[i feel like the roleplayers don't want to roleplay the weak, as we are all "weak humans" {compared to the ones in the games} in RL, so it's not new, exciting.]

 

So as I see it, Crowfall doesn't have "softcore-RP", nobody is a born superhero, you can't just train yourself to be a superhero.

I mean is it roleplaying if you just... are the same even after you died? I mean ofc you can find settings for that, but if you died, you're dead, isn't? What you can do is reincarnate or start a new character {rougelike?}.

 

Again, I just want to understand how they see the system, I'm interested in their viewpoint, I don't want to convert them, I just want to hear how they want to RP in Crowfall.

Edited by Dhorfel

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Calm down folks, the new system is basically a death penalty in easier rulesets and an additional equip loss on harder ones.
It's more about the skill system.

 

A big question hasn't been answered yet though, which name is shown for a character? Crow's or avatar's?

 

EDIT: Blair said Crow's in C&C

Edited by Fenris DDevil

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The RP situation for me is this:

  • I am who I was in my 1st  life.
  • I remember it clearly.
  • Many of my friends (and my enemies) have forgotten the faces of their fathers, but my will is strong enough to recall my personality.
  • I have access to the memories of every new vessel I inhabit, the longer I reside there, the better I know each vessel.
  • I am a junior partner to my "god", not a slave. I do our shared will.
  • I have access to memories of previous vessels as well.

Your crow can be the Kwisatz Haderach (Frank Herbert's Dune) and own the situation, or become an abomination and be owned. Your Choice!


I think the K-Mart of MMO's already exists!  And it ain't us!   :)

 

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Interesting concept, however here's why I am currently disliking it:

 

I will never feel attached to any character since they are just vessels now. They will never feel like "me". This just makes it all feel extremely shallow and boring to me personally. I'm the kind of guy that usually only plays 1-2 characters but now I will probably be indirectly forced to constantly swap into vessels that are better for the situation and/or have higher/better stats, despite me maybe not liking their playstyle.

 

In addition to that, as a min/maxer I now also feel like I will again be "forced" to have every single "top tier" vessel ready at any moment. I would suggest that you implement some sort of system so you can't just hot-swap all the time because it's not gonna be fun for anyone to constantly swap and/or restock 50 different vessels for that 5 hour siege battle.

I don't think you are considering the amount of time it will take to train up every archetype. If you are VIP, you will be able to train 1 general skill at a time and 3 archetype skills at a time (from 3 different archetypes). You won't be able to use a promotion vessel if you don't have the skills for it. You won't want to use a confessor vessel if you haven't trained confessor. 

 

Maybe at some point, yes, you will be equally skilled in all archetypes and will want to be able to switch between them at any time, but that's your choice. Nothing in the game is forcing you to do so, unless you simply don't have a vessel of your chosen archetype and can't find one, but from what Blair has said, it doesn't sound like that will be an issue unless it's a campaign where they limit the number of available vessels.

 

Did you switch all the time in the Hunger Dome? Did you play a Legionnaire because the heal was powerful? Did you switch to Champion when the Rend was overpowered? If you're the type of person who is going to always chase every little advantage, that's fine, but it's not the game's fault for enabling you. 

 

Edit: Another thing that isn't being considered is outfitting your vessels. If you are playing in the dregs with zero imports, how do you plan to outfit a bunch of vessels so you can switch to them at any time? Resources will be limited and better spent on actively played vessels. A guild isn't going to outfit 13 vessels for one player at the expense of other players not getting anything.

Edited by Arkade

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My thoughts after reading this:

 

*Dies in battle and body gets stolen*

*Meets the opponent in previous body*

"My name is  Inigo Montoya. You stole my body. Prepare to die."

 

 

Also waiting for someone to attempt to create an "avatar" cycle...

The Avatar, master of all the archetypes.

 

 

But for real, this is huge and will really add a new dimension to the game. I can't wait to see how this will play out.

 

I'm the man for the job

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Edit: Another thing that isn't being considered is outfitting your vessels. If you are playing in the dregs with zero imports, how do you plan to outfit a bunch of vessels so you can switch to them at any time? Resources will be limited and better spent on actively played vessels. A guild isn't going to outfit 13 vessels for one player at the expense of other players not getting anything.

Actually, I think some guilds will...and that is excellent for politics!


Mic MWH, Member of Mithril Warhammers since 2003,


Hammers High! http://www.mithrilwarhammers.com

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To people worried about homogenized avatars: watch the podcast. Each vessel is locked into a specific archetype which puts caps on different skills. I would (hope) that the corpse of a Knight would have skills not pertaining to a Knight capped very low or at zero.

 

To people worried about a lack of permanence: vessels decay like gear each time you die. I doubt you'll be losing your character any time soon and you could theoretically craft / buy exact clones in the meantime. Dregs notwithstanding, of course.

 

Also, I don't understand why many RP'ers seem to think they have no incentive to rollplay anymore. I'd imagine most characters wouldn't really enjoy having to possess a whole new body (which ties into my cloning idea) while some may embrace it- but possesing a new body doesn't mean your character's personality needs to change. The system has strong ties to the idea that being a Crow is a life few would choose.


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I really see this as a big hit to my Kickstarter package.  

 

One of the rewards presented in the Kickstarter package that made it alluring were the extra character slots.  This has now been removed or nullified with the "one crow" concept; correct?

 

With the new design this also devalues VIP for some folks (again devaluing the Kickstarter packages).  For those whom intend to play only one archetype VIP does nothing for them in this regard anymore, and while it did nothing for them before either (not a problem there) it more importantly now does do something for those who do not (here's the problem).

 

What was the methodology behind preventing those with VIP access from using all of my passive training slots for one archetype?  Why not allow someone to focus all of their passive training into one archetype if they choose?


[@--(o.O)@]

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I'm the kind of guy that usually only plays 1-2 characters but now I will probably be indirectly forced to constantly swap into vessels that are better for the situation and/or have higher/better stats, despite me maybe not liking their playstyle.

 

In addition to that, as a min/maxer I now also feel like I will again be "forced" to have every single "top tier" vessel ready at any moment. I would suggest that you implement some sort of system so you can't just hot-swap all the time because it's not gonna be fun for anyone to constantly swap and/or restock 50 different vessels for that 5 hour siege battle.

 

Well since VIP can train 3 max archetype skills, I would expect you should be able to settle on a "stable" of archetypes that would fit most roles with that selection.  If ACE can't cover the bases in multiple ways with that window of choice then they are indirectly encouraging multi-accounts which they have already said they can't stop but don't want to encourage.

 

As for "hot-swap" during siege, I actually think this system will add to strategy during sieges.  For example, think of Mechwarrior Online - Campaign World battles consist of each team of 12 players bringing a Drop Deck of 4 battlemechs with a combined weight of approximately 250 tons.  It is up to you how to build your deck, and you can have two huge assault mech and two lights, or 4 mediums, etc, but each team gets 48 deaths (12x4).  Now, consider Crowfall with a limited respawn mechanic at nearby Graveyards - you might want to start with squishy AoE DPS to shoot from the walls and create quick carnage, but as the respawns get more restrictive you switch over to beefier tankers, or elusive ranged snipers, etc.  You might even get annoyed as some team mates die more quickly/repeatedly and used up those spawns...

Edited by ren

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With the new design this also devalues VIP for some folks (again devaluing the Kickstarter packages).  For those whom intend to play only one archetype VIP does nothing for them in this regard anymore, and while it did nothing for them before either (not a problem there) it more importantly now does do something for those who do not (here's the problem).

 

I think VIP is actually buffed with this system. You can't be competitive without it anymore.

 

What was the methodology behind preventing those with VIP access from using all of my passive training slots for one archetype?  Why not allow someone to focus all of their passive training into one archetype if they choose?

 

You're not thinking it clearly I think.

 

Non VIP players would be skilling up at a third of the speed if VIP players could train 3 skills on the same archetype.

While now they're just less versatile.

Edited by Fenris DDevil

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