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bradicus magnus

Customizing the crow

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Given this week's reveal, I suggest that Crowfall let us customize our crow.

 

Let's be honest, most of us bond with our characters.  This is why games create such amazing character customization systems.  If Crowfall makes our Crow (account) permanent, and we will leap in and out of vessels frequently, how about allowing players to customize their crow?

 

When our vessel dies, we take a ghostly form that we and our fellow players can see in the game. So, let us customize that avatar.  If we all have to be birds, then let us pick different color patterns, or size, or talons, or beaks, etc.


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         http://crowfall.shivtr.com/  The Lantern Watch - A Crowfall-first guild. Welcome Home.

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I want a fedora on my crow. That is all.

 

And maybe make it a nice light blue-green? Mm.

 

(I still am wanting a "primary"/"original"/EK/unbreaking backup vessel in the system as well, but we'll see  ;) )


"The enemy has found me, Ulic, but the enemy knows only darkness. I know something that enemy does not… I know the Light." ~ Arca Jeth, Star Wars Legends

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Given this week's reveal, I suggest that Crowfall let us customize our crow.

 

Let's be honest, most of us bond with our characters.  This is why games create such amazing character customization systems.  If Crowfall makes our Crow (account) permanent, and we will leap in and out of vessels frequently, how about allowing players to customize their crow?

 

When our vessel dies, we take a ghostly form that we and our fellow players can see in the game. So, let us customize that avatar.  If we all have to be birds, then let us pick different color patterns, or size, or talons, or beaks, etc.

 

While I truly appreciate where you are coming from, I think it is a bit of a "lipstick on a pig" situation. 

Edited by Regulus

The Artist Formerly Known as Regulus

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While I truly appreciate where you are coming from, I think it is a bit of a "lipstick on a pig" situation. 

 

You may well be right.  Plus, ACE has responded that players could keep their vessel "up and running" nearly permanently by maintaining & upgrading that single vessel.  This satisfies the personal attachment dilemma somewhat.


LW_sig_concept3_zps7zqmgbno.jpg

         http://crowfall.shivtr.com/  The Lantern Watch - A Crowfall-first guild. Welcome Home.

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I agree but have a more game-wide solution:

 

The "vessel" concept is fantastic in terms of variety and loot/leveling mechanics. However (BIG However), with this system there is no connection to your character. Essentially, it's just a MOBA on steroids. There is no connection to your character, which means there is no commitment to your character. If I don't have any significant investment in my character's individuality, then I won't have as much fun and likely will not have the drive to see my character progress and grow. IE: player retention will suffer, and a large population of players who enjoy feeling connected to their characters (ahem, roleplayers) will not want to play at all.

 

SOLUTION: Face/hair customization. 

 

If my "crow" is some generic copy of every other "crow" that other players create, that's one thing. But if I get to create the appearance of my character's face and hair, then I essentially get to customize the part of my character that has the most humanity or "soul," while at the same time creating a character that feels individual to me. Every time I switch to a different "vessel," the face and hair stay the same... while the body composition, muscle mass, limbs/appendages (looking at you centaur) all change to fit the "vessel."

 

In this way, we still have our individuality, while still being able to enjoy the revolutionary vessel system. A true MMO-RPG- experience.

 

Or I can just go play LoL/DOTA/HotS and have the same type of fun without the required time (or financial) sink.

 

Please take this into consideration!

 

-Kickstarter Backer's 2cents

 

edit: And if some characters are male only or female only, then if you create a male "crow," you can't play female vessels and vice versa. Completely reasonable and an excuse to create more than one crow.

Edited by Vyst

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When you say "character" do you mean vessel, archetype, or crow? you seems to use it interchangeably (underlined) so I was a little confused.

 

There is no connection to your character, which means there is no commitment to your character. If I don't have any significant investment in my character's individuality, then I won't have as much fun and likely will not have the drive to see my character progress and grow. -- I disagree. It is not a big stretch to wrap ones head around merging your character (the immortal crow) with a vessel especially if you use it all the time and play in campaigns were you cannot lose it. For some this may be the original and one could believe it was the first vessel for the crow and by extension the crows original form which I would think would be easy to get attached to. You could later on get attached to various forms should you choose to do so; it just takes a little shift in mindset.

 

If my "crow" is some generic copy of every other "crow" that other players create, that's one thing (what are the quotes for? do you mean the ghostly crow representation or a vessel or archetype?). But if I get to create the appearance of my character's face and hair, then I essentially get to customize the part of my character that has the most humanity or "soul," ..... --I have seen it mentioned other places that people claim ACE has already said there will be some customization. I don't believe it will be near in depth as say... the Sims, but I think some customization will be there. Would be kind of silly for every single vessel of an archetype to look the exact same.

 

edit: And if some characters are male only or female only, then if you create a male "crow," you can't play female vessels and vice versa. Completely reasonable and an excuse to create more than one crow. --Don't know how I feel about that... Also I don't know how people would make another Crow (since there is only 1 per account)... would they have to buy another copy of the game in order to make another account and therefore another crow?

 

On topic: Since most people won't be in this form for very long (as there is no obvious advantage in campaign situations) I really don't see a need to differentiate that appearance. There isn't that much distinction between real crows and changing talons or beaks or what have you would end up making it not a crow anymore which kind of defeats the purpose. If you want to go around strutting your stuff and looking unique have a special vessel in an EK that you have customized to use, since you won't be lounging around in crow form for long in campaigns.

 

This is a very nuanced way of having player characters and I think a lot of people are still trying to wrap their minds around it. Honestly, I don't see people switching between 3-4 or more vessels in campaigns unless absolutely necessary (i.e. they keep dying in deeper campaigns and keep losing vessels). Each vessel is an extension of your character and I think everyone is bound to be attached in one way or another (even if it just for stats or discipline runes) to their vessels.

Edited by FrostSword

nz8Y2JJ.jpg

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When you say "character" do you mean vessel, archetype, or crow? you seems to use it interchangeably (underlined) so I was a little confused. 

 

I'm referring to features that appear on each "vessel." I don't care what my "crow" looks like... assuming a crow is a spirit bird.

 

There is no connection to your character, which means there is no commitment to your character. If I don't have any significant investment in my character's individuality, then I won't have as much fun and likely will not have the drive to see my character progress and grow-- I disagree. It is not a big stretch to wrap ones head around merging your character (the immortal crow) with a vessel especially if you use it all the time and play in campaigns were you cannot lose it. For some this may be the original and one could believe it was the first vessel for the crow and by extension the crows original form which I would think would be easy to get attached to. You could later on get attached to various forms should you choose to do so; it just takes a little shift in mindset.

 

Disagree. I play LoL and Smite currently. I do not get attached to those characters even when I play them and never will. I did not design them and I have no investment in them. They are tools, nothing more. If you have the ability to become attached to something that is (for the most part) wholly individual, then power to you. 

 

If my "crow" is some generic copy of every other "crow" that other players create, that's one thing (what are the quotes for? do you mean the ghostly crow representation or a vessel or archetype?). But if I get to create the appearance of my character's face and hair, then I essentially get to customize the part of my character that has the most humanity or "soul," ..... --I have seen it mentioned other places that people claim ACE has already said there will be some customization. I don't believe it will be near in depth as say... the Sims, but I think some customization will be there. Would be kind of silly for every single vessel of an archetype to look the exact same.

 

Sorry for the confusion. I mean "vessel." Don't care what the bird looks like. 

 

edit: And if some characters are male only or female only, then if you create a male "crow," you can't play female vessels and vice versa. Completely reasonable and an excuse to create more than one crow. --Don't know how I feel about that... Also I don't know how people would make another Crow (since there is only 1 per account)... would they have to buy another copy of the game in order to make another account and therefore another crow?

 

Didn't realize this. Seems like a flawed design. Sorry, but if I want to role-play a Geralt of Rivia type "spirit," (don't care what Geralt would look like as a bird), I would want any vessel I inhabit to have the same weathered, serious, MALE features. Jumping into a female mage type vessel would immediately feel impersonal and just a temporary tool for a single purpose. Why would I invest time and energy into this "vessel" more than any other? Especially if there are duplicates of it running around.

 

I just realized in responding to these posts just how confusing this system is...

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This whole crow reveal brings me back to UO and corpse running with my ghost...

 

Not sure I would feel any connection to a customizable Crow. I do think I could gain a connection to the Crow though as it represents an original soul that just happens to inhabit many vessels throughout its exisetnce.

 

It is different for sure, and will take a lot of getting used to for many, but I think it has merit (other than corpse runs... I hate those)

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I don't think the concept is bad, but I think its need is overestimated.  In the face of a lot of speculation, it just doesn't seem like we will be spending much time in Crow form.  Of course we will die, and likely die a lot, but the vast, vast majority of our time will almost certainly be in a vessel.  If that is the case, I'd prefer ACE spend no time and money on the Crow - exactly the same simple design for everyone.

Edited by mctan

Mic MWH, Member of Mithril Warhammers since 2003,


Hammers High! http://www.mithrilwarhammers.com

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I would also like to add, so I do not make another thread, the idea that your crow has echoes of his/her first/past live(s).  What this equates to is a default override for appearance per archetype allowing those people "attached" to characters more so than their account to have the vessel morph into their "remembered" appearance.

 

Sounds like a good store item "remembered visage: provides a default set of character visuals that can over-ride the current vessel.  Each Remember Visage is limited to a single archetype."

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Lots of very good points here and I would guess that the Devs would probably look over this type of thread carefully. As a former game designer, different POV are NECESSARY, as much negative as positive. For example in the United States Navy the Executive Officer of a ship has, as his duty, to examine and question and offer alternatives to the captain. The same holds true here in Crowfall and I am happy the development process includes us, the fans.

 

I truly think that the Devs have decided that the crow-vessel system is what they intend to incorporate as the major system. I also think that our best bet is to state our POVs for them. primarily as to the details of execution if we have any, other than simple 'like or dislike'. Therefore I will add my POV. I am uncomfortable with the basic system of degrading the character identification and emotional basis of a players avatar. The Avatar was a singular positive aspect for this game from the beginning, as seeing the threads and posts about them on the forum, including mine, was so strong.

 

To make a positive suggestion: Since the presence of a crow in any campaign is seen only thru a vessel it might be wise to 'boost' the presence of the crow in the EK. Possibly creation of a crow "Avatar" used only in the EK, thus boosting the visual and ceremonial nature of an EK. Full customization of that Crow Avatar for the attachment quotient along with that avatars ability to act (including any PVP or PVE elements of an EK) would allow us to identify with our EK crow. Some spectral or supernatural visuals might well make activities in the EK even more interesting and fun. In any case, the statements made by Magnus in the OP are valid and I hope others will continue putting in the ideas and suggestions. They are actually very useful to a design team, especially this early.

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I think Farblue's suggestion of having a permanent customizable avatar for your crow in EKs would be a good way for players to maintain a permanent identity in game, and a permanent connection to their character, without sacrificing the usefulness of the crow/vessel system in campaigns.

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I'd feel no connection to my character, which means there is no commitment to my character. If I don't have any significant investment in my character's individuality, then I won't have as much fun and likely will not have the drive to see my character progress and grow. IE: player retention will suffer for players with similar mindsets, and a population of players who enjoy feeling connected to their characters in this specific way (ahem, roleplayers of my particular variety) will not want to play at all.

Fixed that for you. Please don't speak for all roleplayers when addressing concerns your particular brand of roleplaying has.

 

edit: And if some characters are male only or female only, then if you create a male "crow," you can't play female vessels and vice versa. Completely reasonable and an excuse to create more than one crow.

Wow, no, for a lot of reasons I'd assume you don't want to discuss on a video game forum.

 

Now, on to the thread at hand:

I'd love some crow customization, but I'm totally cool waiting for it to come on down the road some time, it's not a primary concern for me. From the sounds of it crows won't be able to see other crows (at least not crows that are in vessels) becuase they don't want them used as invulnerable scouts. But I'd love to hang as my crow directly in EKs, I was planning on having an EK dedicated vessel (or two or three) for interacting in EKs, but doing it directly as a crow seems cool as well, particularly if they can be customized.

Edited by ThePaulineIndex

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All I ask for is an eye patch. Allow me to customize my Vessels and Crows with an eye patch and I'll slap that bad boy on everything. Also, don't go the route of Elder Scrolls Online, I want my eye patch and my beard too.


"Through the travail of ages, midst the pomp and toils of war, have I fought and strove and perished, countless times among the stars.
As if through a glass and darkly, the age old strife I see, when I fought in many guises and many names, but always me."

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All I ask for is an eye patch. Allow me to customize my Vessels and Crows with an eye patch and I'll slap that bad boy on everything. Also, don't go the route of Elder Scrolls Online, I want my eye patch and my beard too.

I did some "concept art" for the team about this idea:

OJXv0Ko.png

Edited by ThePaulineIndex

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I did some "concept art" for the team about this idea

I'm sold. Seriously, if this is addressed in the January QA, I'm upping my pledge. All my characters, male and female will get the eyepatch/beard combo.


"Through the travail of ages, midst the pomp and toils of war, have I fought and strove and perished, countless times among the stars.
As if through a glass and darkly, the age old strife I see, when I fought in many guises and many names, but always me."

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I did some "concept art" for the team about this idea:

OJXv0Ko.png

 

Wow, I've changed my mind.  I didn't think it was possible, but this indescribably beautiful and innovative conceptualization of what could be has made me a new man; I am totally for "The Big Reveal" now!  Disregard every complaint I've leveled thus far.  Imagine the cosplay opportunities!  :wub:

 

(ThePaulineIndex that is hilarious)

Edited by Regulus

The Artist Formerly Known as Regulus

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I did some "concept art" for the team about this idea:

 

LOVE IT !  A vessel is not just a pirate ship anymore, LOL

 

Thanks to everyone who's commenting here.  I really appreciate the variety of perspectives.  I think y'all have convinced me that it is better to simply customize my EK vessel(s) and it would be wasteful for ACE to build a system to customize player's crows.

 

Keep the ideas flowing, please.  Are there other ideas on ways players create their emotional attachments to their game characters?


LW_sig_concept3_zps7zqmgbno.jpg

         http://crowfall.shivtr.com/  The Lantern Watch - A Crowfall-first guild. Welcome Home.

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LOVE IT !  A vessel is not just a pirate ship anymore, LOL

 

Thanks to everyone who's commenting here.  I really appreciate the variety of perspectives.  I think y'all have convinced me that it is better to simply customize my EK vessel(s) and it would be wasteful for ACE to build a system to customize player's crows.

 

Keep the ideas flowing, please.  Are there other ideas on ways players create their emotional attachments to their game characters?

 

I don't know.  I've been thinking about it too, but I don't think a superficial change will make a difference, to be honest.  The only thing that I can think of (though we have a lot of minds here, someone else could certainly have a great idea) is that there needs to be a viable, non-ultra restrictive single character option.

 

Personally, the idea of one character per account does not bother me, though I know a lot of people don't like it.  If I really wanted to alt, I would buy another account (buy to play, after all and I actually dug SWG initial system--forced people to play a role).  Therefore, I would trade the versatility of changing roles/archetypes in a second to stick with one character only if that was a true option, not just a gimpy, non-option.  I thought that maybe they could have a deity grant this power to those who pledge to him/her as a boon.  The drawback would be, of course, that you could never change archetypes and be forced to delete, or possibly get an additional account, if you wanted to try/develop something else.  "But..." the argument against this would be, "you're not risking enough!"  It was "enough" before "The Big Reveal."   :mellow:    

Edited by Regulus

The Artist Formerly Known as Regulus

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