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Vyst

How to improve "Vessel" system and make it feel MORE than a LoL/DOTA/HotS clone

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The "vessel" concept is fantastic in terms of variety and loot/leveling mechanics. However (BIG However), with this system there is no connection to your character. Essentially, it's just a MOBA on steroids. There is no connection to your character, which means there is no commitment to your character. If I don't have any significant investment in my character's individuality, then I won't have as much fun and likely will not have the drive to see my character progress and grow. IE: player retention will suffer, and a large population of players who enjoy feeling connected to their characters (ahem, roleplayers) will not want to play at all.

 

SOLUTION: Face/hair customization.

 

If my "crow" is some generic copy of every other "crow" that other players create, that's one thing. But if I get to create the appearance of my character's face and hair, then I essentially get to customize the part of my character that has the most humanity or "soul," while at the same time creating a character that feels individual to me. Every time I switch to a different "vessel," the face and hair stay the same... while the body composition, muscle mass, limbs/appendages (looking at you centaur) all change to fit the "vessel."

 

In this way, we still have our individuality, while still being able to enjoy the revolutionary vessel system. A true MMO-RPG- experience.

 

Or I can just go play LoL/DOTA/HotS and have the same type of fun without the required time (or financial) sink.

 

Please take this into consideration!

 

-Kickstarter Backer's 2cents

 

edit: And if some characters are male only or female only, then if you create a male "crow," you can't play female vessels and vice versa. Completely reasonable and an excuse to create more than one crow.

Edited by Vyst

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I commented on some of this in another post of yours with this in it, but on topic: just for clarification you are asking for the ability to customize key features of the vessels your crow inhabits so that you don't look like a carbon copy of every other... let's say knight... out on the battlefield, right? And that this customization is essentially saved so you don't have to do it every time you create a new avatar with a vessel?


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Yes, you got it. I'll post a more in-depth answer in response to your comments on the other thread.

 

Edit: Sorry, but if I want to role-play a Geralt of Rivia type "spirit," (don't care what Geralt would look like as a bird), I would want any vessel I inhabit to have the same weathered, serious, MALE features. Jumping into a female mage type vessel would immediately feel impersonal and just a temporary tool for a single purpose. Why would I invest time and energy into this "vessel" more than any other? Especially if there are duplicates of it running around.

 

I just realized in responding to these posts just how confusing this system is...

Edited by Vyst

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I will agree that there really needs to be a bit better customization options instead of the changing of hair and skin color (as seen in character creation at the moment).  I honestly think this can be a big disadvantage for the game since everyone is gonna look like everyone else.  Ok in a MOBA type game but not so much in an MMO.

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There will be vessel customization options.  They may be more limited than in other MMORPGs due to budget considerations (especially at release), but will certainly not be MOBA cookie cutter.  Interestingly, because of the nature of vessels, ACE can add customization choices over time with no problem (look for pay skins, I'm thinking).  

 

Concerns about MOBA-ness are for the moment pure speculation because customization has not been implemented yet.

 

If you are as big of a roleplayer as to be concerned that you have a gendered crow not represented in a differently gendered vessel, then you probably would have no problem only playing characters of a single gender.  If you still have a problem, it is the same exact problem as any other game, right?  In a different MMO you play different characters completely, and what is the RP way around that?  Well, essentially to say it is a completely different personage.  So, that is a creative way around playing multiple beings.  Why can't the crow be non-gendered and the vessel be gendered and that is the RP?

 

tl;dr There will be a customization.  RP concerns need creative solutions, and this game is as connected to lore as I have seen in a while.

Edited by mctan

Mic MWH, Member of Mithril Warhammers since 2003,


Hammers High! http://www.mithrilwarhammers.com

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I think some of the concern that this new system makes it more MOBA like seems out of place. Before this reveal I did not see anyone who was concerned that people would have carbon copy looks within archetypes (but I may just not have seen those posts or threads). Also it is my understanding that games like LoL/DOTA/HotS have you are picking an already established character, with unique mannerisms and speech (should they speak) etc. But with this system you are essentially making each vessel a unique identity you create yourself.

 

I think it was in the crowns and crows episode that it was stated you go into the customization mode when you go to create an avatar with a new vessel. That way a crafter makes it with certain stats but then you, who will actually use it, customize it so there is no "I want a black haired, green eyed, crusader with these stats."

 

I think I have seen kind of what you are saying (saving certain customized options so you don't have to keep doing it over and over again) once or twice.

The only problem I can see with your suggestion is that for those who have/want both male and female vessels this suggestion could cause problems.

 

So, yes, i agree with you that I would like to see customization to set my character apart (which I believe has already been established) and have an easy way to preserve that look through multiple vessels if I want, but I don't think crows should be gender locked.

Edited by FrostSword

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Fallacious title.  I don't think a vessel system inherently feels like a MOBA.

 

Re: character customization

I think the best use of dev resources, as far as character customization, should be on many different types/styles of armor and weapon skins, cloaks etc.  Spending time on a crazy detailed character creator with facial manipulation etc. is wasted time and resources for a game like this. 

 

Having some different options is fine, but when a character is decked out in gear, you look unique via your armor/weapons, not your face.

Edited by mourne

"Food for the crows..."    Nobuo Xa'el

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Just something I've been thinking of...

 

From a "lore" standpoint, it stands to reason that if the eternal pact players make allow one to inhabit and reanimate a vessel into its functioning (avatar) state, then purely cosmetic alterations shouldn't be a problem. In fact, given the significance of the act, one might expect avatars to bear the signs and marks of their possessors or even patron gods, especially in the case of players who have an advanced amount of spiritual knowledge (General and Archetypal skills training).

 

In game terms: initially allow for the same general cosmetic options as you would during character creation. This could include the ability to adjust gender, if it's that imperative. The settings could be saved an re-applied to any vessel, much the same way as saving a weapon set.

 

As the player trains skills or groups of skills up to certain thresholds, it would unlock other cosmetic effects (i.e., training 500 points worth of confessor archetype skills would allow players to toggle a "mantle of fire" effect on their avatars, or killing 1000 players allows an unlock for bloodstained hands/armor). This concept could be extended to the promotion classes for rare cosmetic features/effects that reward players deciding to specialize highly in a single archetype. Continuing along this line of thought, players could unlock cosmetic options based on successful service to their particular patron god (A crown of antlers, vestigial wings, Face tentacles a la Davy Jones, etc.)

 

This would allow players to associate their "character" identity and achievements with whatever vessel they may inhabit, while still allowing for easy archetype recognition on the battlefield (provided the silhouette is kept more or less intact).

 

Thoughts?


Mockery and derision have their place. Usually, it's on the far side of the airlock.

         - Maxim #8 of the 70 Maxims of Maximally Effective Mercenaries

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Fallacious title.  I don't think a vessel system inherently feels like a MOBA.

 

Re: character customization

I think the best use of dev resources, as far as character customization, should be on many different types/styles of armor and weapon skins, cloaks etc.  Spending time on a crazy detailed character creator with facial manipulation etc. is wasted time and resources for a game like this. 

 

Having some different options is fine, but when a character is decked out in gear, you look unique via your armor/weapons, not your face.

Agreed, and character customization is seriously a perfect money maker just post-release.  Get people committed to the game with design choices, then see if people are willing to commit some more money.  Some simple sliders for release, IMO.


Mic MWH, Member of Mithril Warhammers since 2003,


Hammers High! http://www.mithrilwarhammers.com

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Re: character customization

I think the best use of dev resources, as far as character customization, should be on many different types/styles of armor and weapon skins, cloaks etc.  Spending time on a crazy detailed character creator with facial manipulation etc. is wasted time and resources for a game like this. 

 

 

I still think they can sinnk SOME resources into some vessel customization.   I'm not talking Eve Online/APB/GW2 type character creation, but give the choice of a couple of different hair/horn styles,  skin shades and some face shapes. 

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idiot opinions and really bad suggestion

 

 

 

Please keep bad suggestions in your head. Especially the part where you are splerging about your moba addiction. 

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The OP concern is a non-issue. Thomas Blair already confirmed you can edit the appearence of a vessel when you enhabit it, the moment you "activate it"and it stops being an item in the inventory a character creation thingy will pop up for you to select appearance. I assume they will allow us to save an appearance, so that we can just load the preset with one click and have a character just like the previous one.

The vessel will just have the properties of your character, how high his skils can go, which archetype etc. Essentially, an extra piece of gear. Your appearence can remain the same or change as you wish whenever you switch vessels.

Edited by LGAllastair

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Guild Leader/ High Elder

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Anyone who's struggling with the idea of a permanent character with a persistent identity independent of the multiple bodies it inhabits:

 

Please read Altered Carbon, an excellent novel in a setting where identities can be easily transferred between bodies, transmitted across space, or stored indefinitely on disks. Very well written and thought-provoking.

 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000FBFMZ2/


Official "Bad Person" of Crowfall

"I think 1/3rd of my postcount is telling people that we aren't turning into a PvE / casual / broad audience game." -

Tully

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If you're really concerned about inhabiting a female body for RP reasons, just choose not to. I've already thought a bit about this for my character, and I've decided that he won't be inhabiting any beast-men. Though this does make it so I can't play as a Guinecean, which seems like it will be a fun class, it actually improves the depth of my character's personality. I also plan to keep a vessel in the EK that is the body that he sees as himself, with the ones he uses in campaigns being treated more as tools. In terms of gender, if that is locked to the vessel, I think I'll use it to modify his personality ever so slightly. Perhaps when he's in a body with significantly lower levels of testosterone, he is less quick to anger and friendlier with his fellow heroes. 

 

I'm not concerned about the game feeling like a MOBA. The amount of resources that you put into a good vessel will be enough to make you feel attached to it. Also, the advantages and disadvantages, discipline runes, promotion classes, and types of armour and weapons should be more than enough to set your avatar apart from someone else's. I feel like the fear of MOBAness may have been something you thought of, and then posted quickly without really considering what was actually going on. It shouldn't be a problem at all.


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Ignore this thead. OP compares to a MoBa, showing they are cluless.

To ignore the influence of MOBAs on crowfall's reveled design is blind. And to not want any influence from the most innovative genre in recent video game development is.... ignorant.

 

That said, this guy (OP) seems to think Crowfall and the mentioned MOBAs are much much more alike than they actually are. Are there elements? Yes, how could there not be from such an influential genre. But to get even close to using the word clone? That is not at all correct, just hyperbole meant, it seems, to whine louder than the position warrants. So yeah, it should probably be ignored, but all this anti-MOBA sentiment/dismissiveness seems just as ridiculous as the OPs statements.

Edited by ThePaulineIndex

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I remember at the beginning of CF, the devs mentioned that there wouldn't be much customization to the avatars (now vessels). They showed a few faces, few armor styles, etc.

 

This wont feel like a moba, you may become more attached to your character than you think.


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Camaraderie ~ Loyalty ~ Honor ~ Maturity ~ Integrity ~ Duty

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