Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
Pann

Archetype Focus: The Ranger - Official discussion thread

Recommended Posts

 

That's another thing...they have stealth, they have traps, they have melee, they have range...seriously, this archetype really does everything. Which is also another big red flag: what can the Stalker do? If ammunition is already a big deal (and it will be, or they wouldn't make this kind of standalone announcement, don't even pretend that it won't an issue until you run out of ammo in a firefight), and they'll need melee, what can the Stalker possibly offer in gameplay to set it apart from the ranger? Frankly there are only so many things you can do with a bow.

 

 

 

Stalkers confirmed anti-stealth class


giphy.gif

You Can't Be A Genius, If You Aren't The Slightest Bit Insane.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seems a lot of people are worried about the fact that rangers have to carry ammo while casters don't, so they should have reagents. I agree that some magical archetypes could have reagents required for their spells, things they have to craft and carry around. I think the ammo/ reagent thing adds personality to the class. I liked in Vanilla WoW when I had to be prepared as a warlock, have my soulshards, have the right pet out, my soulstone up, my healthstone ready, plan ahead. Hunters had to do the same with their arrows and setting traps, and having the right pet. Priests, druids and paladins had to hoard their reagents for buffing people. I think that this is the intention of ammo in Rangers, giving the class unique mechanics and different "repair costs" so they fit uniquely in the economy, and I see it as a positive thing.

 

Now if you give a different cost to everyone, just changing the name of it, then it kind of defeats the purpose right? I mean, ammo is supposed to be a feature for archers, the ranger and a couple other archetypes could use bows/ crossbows and have to deal with this mechanic, while other archetypes don't, and rely on other strengths and weaknesses that make sense for their archetype. I think that would be fine in a RvR game.

 

Archetypes won't be balanced guys, economicaly or combat wise, this is what makes them unique and awesome. As long as the difference in powers or requirements is not overwhelminly significant, having those differences is (in my opinion) fundamental. So no, they don't HAVE to add reagents to all casters now just because Rangers have ammo. Every archetype can have their unique abilities that have uinique limitations, those might be inventory space, cooldowns, energy, having to set things up, having to find the right item... whatever they are, if they are well designed and fit in the archetype this is what matters most. Part of choosing an archetype should be deciding to take on the burdens that it will bring with it, mastering the archetype to the best of your ability. Please don't request devs to streamline every class into having equal costs for abilities, equal amount of CCs, equal DPS, equal survivability. We had too much of that in the MMO industry lately, it hasn't worked, classes feel bland and all the same with different skins and animations.

 

EDIT: Fixed typos and other stuff.

Edited by LGAllastair

KjUVOZg.png


Guild Leader/ High Elder

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 

So. Much. This.

 

If you're going to impose taxes, make it apply to all, always hated how magic classes were "exempt" from ammunition. Also, are there carrying limits, like weight or how many you can carry ? Because of how resource intensive this game is appearing to be, will the arrows take up inventory space? If so, this ammunition thing is really going to hurt the class a lot, especially compared to magic classes. Unless the ranger does insanely better than casters in dps (who are already looking really scary as it is), then this may be a big issue.

 

It also begs the question: does this inherently confirm that range is better than melee? With range consuming ammo, that means that they'll need to do more damage to make it worth the production cost. And ACE stated that the access to melee is in case of the emergency if they run out of ammo, the inference being "as a last resort." Meaning that range is already inherently preferable to melee, with melee as a cheap, and negligible source of damage.

 

 

So. Much. This.

 

That's another thing...they have stealth, they have traps, they have melee, they have range...seriously, this archetype really does everything. Which is also another big red flag: what can the Stalker do? If ammunition is already a big deal (and it will be, or they wouldn't make this kind of standalone announcement, don't even pretend that it won't an issue until you run out of ammo in a firefight), and they'll need melee, what can the Stalker possibly offer in gameplay to set it apart from the ranger? Frankly there are only so many things you can do with a bow.

 

Also, the Ranger has been touted as the premier pet archetype as well, from all the promotions and reveals on pets, from the artwork, etc...have we forgotten about the wolf on the homepage? Where's the mention?

 

(I mean, I SUPPOSE it is possible that the wolf just happened to wander onto the scene. The it could have been drawn to the sounds of chaos and bloodshed, without any regard to its own well being or safety, unlike most forest animals (that wolf could be in a commercial for the US Marines, lol)

 

Don't get me wrong, I dislike pet mechanics in most games (conceptually, it's a great idea for a class, fulfilling the fantasy of taming and fighting wild beasts as a master of the wild, but in gameplay it has always come off as weak, gimmicky, or overpowered), but was surprised to not see it here, listed along with the rest of the rangers (somewhat excessive) skills and specialties.

 

 

Ranged is already superior due to the fact that they ARE RANGED, it's a huge advantage being able to deal damage from a distance, that advantage needs a cost. Slapping another advantage on top of that? You crazy bro, even without extra damage added on top ranged classes will likely be the most dominant.

That being said, I believe mages should have reagent costs as well, except for their more basic attacks.

 

Really happy to see ACE not going the lazy route of infinite, it has no place in a sandbox imo.


Member of The BlackHand Order

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They can be ranged, melee set traps and sutch, just it needs to come with a big cost on the dps part of the char. .

Else this archetype will be very overpowerd.

 

So if they do 1/3 ranged dmg , 1/3 melee, 1/3 from trap or beast that would maybe balance things out + to carry all those weapons needs to slow the char. down to like they said the more you carry the slower you should go. That said if u know the cantaur has fast walking, champ had leap, confes dash, and knight has the chain i think it would workout.

 

Also it wasnt ment to balance each archetyps out so they can take the other down in a 1vs1, its more like a group effort.

 

And im also in for the reagent costs for mages, rangers and all range char. .


Obsidian-ForumSignature.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Very little Info real info here though other than her appearance.  and needing to craft arrows, thats actually pretty cool as long as its not an overwhelmingly tedious process.  I'm also a big fan of being able to switch from ranged to melee.  Need more info on stealth and trap setting though


Lf6MJUL.png


Wrathmane - Remnant of Ascendance

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Maybe we'll see/have different types of arrow tips?

  • Steel - Able to penetrate Plate armor
  • Stone - Able to penetrate Leather armor
  • Wood - Able to penetrate Cloth armor
  • Cloth - Flaming arrow
  • Arrows with poison (multiple types)

 

Let's just allow the shooter's magic to do different types of damage. Steel tips penetrate all these best IRL.

However:

  • Steel needle tips could do piercing damage (like ice picks).
  • Steel broadheads could do slicing damage (best against leather).
  • Blunt tips would do laughable damage (no crushing damage from arrows, unless they explode).
  • Magically Plasma (think fire) tips would do fire damage, penetrate plate well, and start secondary fires.
  • Magically Absolute Zeroo tips would do cold damage, penetrate metal armor well, and put extra wear on armor.
  • Any of these except plasma tips would effectively administer poison (needle tips being the best).
Edited by chancellor

I think the K-Mart of MMO's already exists!  And it ain't us!   :)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Where is the value added for ammo here?

 

I'm not against the concept of ammo. I've played EVE for several years, and ammo had value in that game. It changed the damage, damage type, range, etc of your weapons, you could switch in battle, and cargoholds were limited, so choosing your loadout of ammo was balanced vs cargo space for fuels, spare mods, loot, etc. Ammo was relevant on both a tactical and logistical level.

 

In this preview I'm not seeing what the upside for having ammo is. Right off the bat, it seems that ammo will be limited to bow users. if only rangers/stalkers are 'burdened' with having to craft and carry ammo, there has to be some advantage to make it balanced vs magic classes. Otherwise ammo is strictly a disadvantage. Simply having the ability to 'change damage types' doesn't seem like a huge advantage on paper. We're really sparse on the details here for what should be a defining aspect of the class.


ex-SWG (Lowca). Veteran of the Great EVE War. Discord: hustler#6125

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is the Arch I have been waiting to get more info on. The two fighting styles really fall in line for what I was hoping for. It opens up options that you otherwise may not have if ranged is the only choice you get in any given situation. 

 

The crafting of the arrows seems pretty cool, and as Canth mentioned it opens the door to arrow types. It would be kind of cool to snag arrows out of a quiver depending on the situation or desired impact a la Hawkeye, but that functionality may just fall onto the Ranger's skills. Both would be cool but who doesn't love having another reason to craft! 

 

d8920a973be80a32876b5e795f1471dc.jpg


My name is Toothbrush, Scourge of the local pond, King of this tree stump, and future leader of, "The Irregulars".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Where is the value added for ammo here?

 

I'm not against the concept of ammo. I've played EVE for several years, and ammo had value in that game. It changed the damage, damage type, range, etc of your weapons, you could switch in battle, and cargoholds were limited, so choosing your loadout of ammo was balanced vs cargo space for fuels, spare mods, loot, etc. Ammo was relevant on both a tactical and logistical level.

 

In this preview I'm not seeing what the upside for having ammo is. Right off the bat, it seems that ammo will be limited to bow users. if only rangers/stalkers are 'burdened' with having to craft and carry ammo, there has to be some advantage to make it balanced vs magic classes. Otherwise ammo is strictly a disadvantage. Simply having the ability to 'change damage types' doesn't seem like a huge advantage on paper. We're really sparse on the details here for what should be a defining aspect of the class.

I think this is just an early preview, the skill tree with a more detailed concept will come down the line, and even after that it will be fleshed, balanced, tweaked and changed as the combat tests progress. No reason to dispair.

Edited by LGAllastair

KjUVOZg.png


Guild Leader/ High Elder

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Ranger's powers are still like every other power in Crowfall, which means they do fun and cool things like Suppress, Snare, etc because that is what the power does. We didn't want to give her one "shoot arrow" power and let the ammo decide. (It would mean things like: Always needing a few of each type of arrow plus a UI mechanic to quickly swap them between shots so you could freeze, bleed, suppress, etc.)

 

Our current plan is to use them to overload the default damage type and give the Ranger more options on the types of damage they can do. Ie fire arrows do fire damage which is great against a field of plate users, or crushing points are good against a field of leather users.

 

 

 

I watched that video then got sucked into the video after where the lady talks about all his claims and trick shots.

https://youtu.be/rDbqz_07dW4

 

 

Eric Hart does some awesome character modeling! Her animation package is shaping up nicely as well. Huzzah Artists!

 

The Ranger will be hands down our most preparatory vessel to play, meaning loading her out with gear, ammo, and extra melee weapons is going to take more time than other archetypes. She also gets multiple power trays full of cool powers. (and we are building synergy between the trays)

 

I already worry about how much mobility and utility she has. The Ranger is our first specialist role, building this one will help us define what that means in Crowfall as well as get us a mountain of new tech for the powers system to use in the future. (The new tech list for Ranger is really insane)  

The bolded does scare me if you are already worried about that.

 

There is already a lot of mobility in game for confessors and legionnaires. If the ranger is even better at it you will not stand much of a chance against her as a melee.


 

Rage Quit

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Where is the value added for ammo here?

 

I'm not against the concept of ammo. I've played EVE for several years, and ammo had value in that game. It changed the damage, damage type, range, etc of your weapons, you could switch in battle, and cargoholds were limited, so choosing your loadout of ammo was balanced vs cargo space for fuels, spare mods, loot, etc. Ammo was relevant on both a tactical and logistical level.

 

In this preview I'm not seeing what the upside for having ammo is. Right off the bat, it seems that ammo will be limited to bow users. if only rangers/stalkers are 'burdened' with having to craft and carry ammo, there has to be some advantage to make it balanced vs magic classes. Otherwise ammo is strictly a disadvantage. Simply having the ability to 'change damage types' doesn't seem like a huge advantage on paper. We're really sparse on the details here for what should be a defining aspect of the class.

 

A few things that I like about ammo but I'm not sure they'll apply to Crowfall :

- economy : additional item to craft and trade, opportunity for new crafters to create items at low cost 

- transport : could create a need for continuous supply during large battles and sieges

- tactic : using arrows at the beginning of an engagement or going melee first? Focusing on a single target with precise shots or quickly firing at at group?

- inventory : planning in advance how many arrows will be needed during the excursion vs. the inventory space for other items.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The bolded does scare me if you are already worried about that.

 

There is already a lot of mobility in game for confessors and legionnaires. If the ranger is even better at it you will not stand much of a chance against her as a melee.

 

That could very well be the case, but seeing as they have stated that 1v1 balance is not a focus I wouldn't hate this. Now if the mobility and utility is so ridiculous that it has the potential to outclass everyone by a mile that would be troublesome. A class that that could turn the tide regardless of comp and may make a ranger a requirement in any serious competitive play, which would be bad. Lucky for us it is pre-alpha and so far I have seen no reason not to believe the devs would allow such a monster to exist passed testing.

 

I am extremely excited to see how the Ranger plays though.

Edited by Toothbrush

My name is Toothbrush, Scourge of the local pond, King of this tree stump, and future leader of, "The Irregulars".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is great!! I love the idea of needing Arrows!

 

I am sorry.... but to the complainers who are saying "I don't want to be forced into a certain play style because I ran out of Arrows" DON"T PLAY A RANGER!

 

They already stated that each archetype is going to feel different, and if I am playing an archer with cool mechanics I damn well want to feel like an Archer, and that means I don't have a magical butt hole I pull Arrows out of that never runs out! If you wan't to play a ranged class that doesn't run out of projectiles they already have that ! It's called a mage, and they probably don't have as cool of tricks as the Ranger who comes prepared. 

 

The only concern I do have for the ammo is the idea with the decaying world. Will it still be easy to make arrows come winter time when resources are close to depleted? If its not "easy" to get more arrows come time when resources are starting to become limited, then there would be a problem as too why play an archetype that you can't play to its fullest ability come later down the road (goes with traps too). 

 

I love the mechanic but a ton of thought needs to go into the crafting system and the resources of the world for these things.


KjUVOZg.png

Varius - Veteran Member of LG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You will.  and we'll also have a Discipline to specialize in it.

 

Todd

This was a concern of mine.  Doesn't that pretty much force all bow users to take up the arrow crafting discipline?  Why not just allow all bow users to craft their own ammo?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the design looks well but there is only one concern i have...

 

the bow carried that way doesn't look fine, the rangers do not carry the bows across the chest since it will ruin the bow and it will brake.

Please use more fitting concepts of wearing he bow...

 

Thank  you

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This was a concern of mine.  Doesn't that pretty much force all bow users to take up the arrow crafting discipline?  Why not just allow all bow users to craft their own ammo?

No.

If you want to craft your own arrows, you can train that up in the general skills tree.

If you already craft your own arrows (or want to sell them) you can take the discipline and craft amazing arrows.

If you want amazing arrows but don't want to dedicate a discipline to make them, buy them or get them from your guild.


I think the K-Mart of MMO's already exists!  And it ain't us!   :)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...