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Archetype Focus: The Ranger - Official discussion thread

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You will.  and we'll also have a Discipline to specialize in it.

 

Todd

Is it called "Fletchmaster"? It should be called Fletchmaster, u_u...

 

Also... DAT CRAFTING! *lip bite*

 

On the whole "Oh noes! Finite arrows that are not magically procured from thine buttocks!" topic, I get the dread. It can be quite cool, however. I do encourage you guys (Artcraft) to focus really hard on how arrows are tools for the Ranger to use in cool ways (even the different kinds of arrows) and aren't just consumable spells or something (i.e. "Ha-HAH! Now I just jog around shooting you, but my Arcane Eldritch Stormlord's Arrows of +73-ness kill everyone in 1/10th of a hit!"). Not so much the overpoweredness of that example, but the simplicity of "I do nothing different, but I fire 50 different arrows at you and they do interesting things FOR me, and that's all there is to Archermanship (which is a real word, and should also be a discipline u_u).


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I have a few hopes for the ranged weapons in this game. 

 

Bows should shoot slightly farther than spells, unless you tilt it.

Spells are like 30-40 meters, bows should be 50ish

Tilt your bow and the arrow goes longer, great for fire arrows and other siege mechanics. (but at the cost of precision)

 

You should not be able to carry 10 000 arrows, make it a little more realistic.

If a group of rangers decide to stay outta range and just pour down arrow after arrow its killing the action. If you have a max of lets say 50 arrows, then you need to use it wiser and you cant kite a group forever. 

With a disipline your should be allowed to create basic arrows in the wild, but it should take some time.

 

Stealth should be based on several factors. You should be easier to detect the closer you are to someone. If your stealthed out on 40 meters I am cool with the Ranger beein almost undetectable. Also stealth should be harder to detect if you come from behind a toon. 

 

Stalkers stealth should eventually be even better than ranger stealth, but all stealth should be visible if you attack in a 180 arch in front of the toon. Visible range should be affected by the light in that area. Night time is ofc. stealthier than day time. Camp fires will help to detect, etc.

Edited by Tibby2

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Maybe for Stalker. Though I'd prefer something more creative and less... simple.

Hm... Maybe cover could play a part in it? I mean, if stealth doesn't just "make you invisible" but actually requires factors like cover/darkness/camouflage... Maybe a flare arrow ability? Shoot the arrow and it lights up everything it passes, maybe allowing you to see players you couldn't before? It still leaves you with a chance of not seeing them if they're really good at hiding, kinda like the Indominus Rex in Jurassic World when it hid in the forest. If they're going to route of "stealth leads to invisibility of sorts", maybe it creates a prism-effect where flying by gives you a hint of "something's here, you just can't see it". Just depends on what they do with stealth.

 

EDIT: Realized my flare arrow idea was a tad vague. For example: If you're in a dark cave, people could hide in crevasses or on top of rocks (again depends on CF stealth system), and maybe blend in with camo or some sort of magic, or just because it's dark which makes them hard to see. Instead of walking by with a torch, which will probably lead to seeing them too late, you could shoot a flare arrow (or it could be a secondary use for flaming arrows) to light the path ahead and possibly foil ambushes? It'll add a bit of depth to the limited ammo concept, since using arrows in this fashion is a perfectly valid tactic but leads to 1 less arrow should s*** hit the fan.

Edited by shadowfang1992

Can we have a Bard? If not as an Archetype or Promotion, then maybe a Discipline?


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Hm... Maybe cover could play a part in it? I mean, if stealth doesn't just "make you invisible" but actually requires factors like cover/darkness/camouflage... Maybe a flare arrow ability? Shoot the arrow and it lights up everything it passes, maybe allowing you to see players you couldn't before? It still leaves you with a chance of not seeing them if they're really good at hiding, kinda like the Indominus Rex in Jurassic World when it hid in the forest. If they're going to route of "stealth leads to invisibility of sorts", maybe it creates a prism-effect where flying by gives you a hint of "something's here, you just can't see it". Just depends on what they do with stealth.

 

EDIT: Realized my flare arrow idea was a tad vague. For example: If you're in a dark cave, people could hide in crevasses or on top of rocks (again depends on CF stealth system), and maybe blend in with camo or some sort of magic, or just because it's dark which makes them hard to see. Instead of walking by with a torch, which will probably lead to seeing them too late, you could shoot a flare arrow (or it could be a secondary use for flaming arrows) to light the path ahead and possibly foil ambushes? It'll add a bit of depth to the limited ammo concept, since using arrows in this fashion is a perfectly valid tactic but leads to 1 less arrow should s*** hit the fan.

 

I'd like to see requisites for stealthing, or perhaps an obvious tell which can be overcome. This would either be "You can only stealth in shadows" or "Even in stealth, you cast a shadow".

 

In the first scenario[stealth only in shadow], you can use resources to create or follow shadows, or simply gain an advantage at night and in high-cover areas such as tall grass or forests. Stealth can thus be overcome with, perhaps, the Stalker having a "Night Vision" and anti-stealth disciplines with similar abilities or, as you say, a flare or torch of sorts which removes shadows. 

 

The second scenario[stealth doesn't hide your shadow] is more flexible and still follows the principle of high-cover and night giving you an advantage, but still makes it a matter of noticing when the shadows distort if you carry a torch around. It also allows one to stealth and try their luck in unknown ways, such as taking high ground and stealthing so that the enemy won't be able to see your shadow from below.

 

Either one of these is fine with me, and emphasizes preparation with stealth characters in planning their path of assault.

Edited by Dondagora

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I'd like to see requisites for stealthing, or perhaps an obvious tell which can be overcome. This would either be "You can only stealth in shadows" or "Even in stealth, you cast a shadow".

 

In the first scenario[stealth only in shadow], you can use resources to create or follow shadows, or simply gain an advantage at night and in high-cover areas such as tall grass or forests. Stealth can thus be overcome with, perhaps, the Stalker having a "Night Vision" and anti-stealth disciplines with similar abilities or, as you say, a flare or torch of sorts which removes shadows. 

 

The second scenario[stealth doesn't hide your shadow] is more flexible and still follows the principle of high-cover and night giving you an advantage, but still makes it a matter of noticing when the shadows distort if you carry a torch around. It also allows one to stealth and try their luck in unknown ways, such as taking high ground and stealthing so that the enemy won't be able to see your shadow from below.

 

Either one of these is fine with me, and emphasizes preparation with stealth characters in planning their path of assault.

It also emphasizes difficulty in assassinations and ambushes. The stealth system of "hey, you're invisible now" is so overdone that it almost hurts, lol.

 

I wonder though just how much cover is going to be available in CF? Will we be able to take cover in bushes? Will there be some that just aren't thick enough to successfully use to hide, or some that are too thick to take cover in? Will tree-climbing ever become a thing? If swimming ever enters CF, can we hide in water (and will swimming be a skill we can work on, leading to being able to hold my breath for longer and longer?)? I know they don't plan on making in-water battles a thing, but that doesn't mean swimming shouldn't be in the game :P Maybe in a last ditch-effort to save yourself from death you take a plunge and pray the arrows don't hit you as you swim deeper. Hey, they said physics are in this, and water definitely has a physic system all its own, lol.

 

There's almost too much potential in this game, it leads to all this exciting speculation on what could be, what won't be (due to confirmation) and what we think should be. It's too much!


Can we have a Bard? If not as an Archetype or Promotion, then maybe a Discipline?


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It also emphasizes difficulty in assassinations and ambushes. The stealth system of "hey, you're invisible now" is so overdone that it almost hurts, lol.

 

I wonder though just how much cover is going to be available in CF? Will we be able to take cover in bushes? Will there be some that just aren't thick enough to successfully use to hide, or some that are too thick to take cover in? Will tree-climbing ever become a thing? If swimming ever enters CF, can we hide in water (and will swimming be a skill we can work on, leading to being able to hold my breath for longer and longer?)? I know they don't plan on making in-water battles a thing, but that doesn't mean swimming shouldn't be in the game :P Maybe in a last ditch-effort to save yourself from death you take a plunge and pray the arrows don't hit you as you swim deeper. Hey, they said physics are in this, and water definitely has a physic system all its own, lol.

 

There's almost too much potential in this game, it leads to all this exciting speculation on what could be, what won't be (due to confirmation) and what we think should be. It's too much!

 

On a quick note of water, my thoughts are: "Taking a dip in the ocean with a set of metal or leather armor on thick enough to stop a sword or mace, definitely won't drown, especially with all this physics around". Swimming, I'd say, should require little in the inventory. If it's ever a thing. Or ships, because naval combat can potentially be done well.

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On a quick note of water, my thoughts are: "Taking a dip in the ocean with a set of metal or leather armor on thick enough to stop a sword or mace, definitely won't drown, especially with all this physics around". Swimming, I'd say, should require little in the inventory. If it's ever a thing. Or ships, because naval combat can potentially be done well.

They've already voiced interest in pursuing naval combat, but it'll be post-launch because budget. Still though, you are right: wearing metal or thick leather armor into deeper waters would definitely lead to "OH S*** DROWNING!" Lol


Can we have a Bard? If not as an Archetype or Promotion, then maybe a Discipline?


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They've already voiced interest in pursuing naval combat, but it'll be post-launch because budget. Still though, you are right: wearing metal or thick leather armor into deeper waters would definitely lead to "OH S*** DROWNING!" Lol

 

Interestingly enough, someone actually did some testing in this regard. I think the conclusion was that while it is difficult to swim wearing plate armor, it's not entirely outside the realm of possibility.

 

You can find a video of the experiment here: https://vimeo.com/13634653

Edited by Raizex

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Interestingly enough, someone actually did some testing in this regard. I think the conclusion was that while it is difficult to swim wearing plate armor, it's not entirely outside the realm of possibility.

 

You can find a video of the test here: https://vimeo.com/13634653

Huh, maybe strength should be a deciding factor then, since they specifically mention leg-strength being important in breaking the surface. Fascinating, thanks for sharing!


Can we have a Bard? If not as an Archetype or Promotion, then maybe a Discipline?


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Not a fan of ammo and certainly not of being forced into a play-style because ran out of ammo. However if being able to craft arrows ourselves is simple enough then probably won't be an issue.

 

Not a deal breaker but just seems like its an extra tax on the class that others wont have.

 

It's not a tax on the class.  It's a layer of realism and, much more importantly, a balance for what is typically a HUGE advantage to ranged classes over melee when the ranged class has unlimited ammo.  And don't act like you don't know that.  Seriously.


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Tracking = counter to stealthing, and beast archetypes should/could reign supreme in tracking perhaps?  One might logically conclude that a Minotaur would be incredibly hard to sneak up on due to better hearing and smell than a human.  Just a for instance.

 

Also because I'm going to be running a minotaur.  Yeah.  There's that.  :ph34r:


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Interestingly enough, someone actually did some testing in this regard. I think the conclusion was that while it is difficult to swim wearing plate armor, it's not entirely outside the realm of possibility.

 

You can find a video of the experiment here: https://vimeo.com/13634653

 

My conclusion after watching the video is that it would take less than a minute for someone wearing a plate to drown if the water is deeper than 2 meters.

 

At 2:25 we can see him attempting to stay afloat and it takes only a few seconds for him to start sinking.

 

In video games I've no trouble with characters swimming with heavy objects on them, but in real life it's another story.  :P

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you do mean reagents as ammo for spells?  that would be realistic in a setting where melee slowly lose their weapons in the repair cycle and archers need ammo.   We cannot let caster archetypes get away with no decay of equipment after all...  sew up them robes and collect mats for crafting reagents.

Casters have weapons too, and those weapons decay. Confessors aren't carrying those books because they like to read :P

 

There is no need to make other archetypes use consumables. You can look at consumable arrows as a negative, and I suppose it is, but it is there to balance the fact that the Ranger has both ranged and melee. This is part of a quote from Blair:

 

 

 

She also gets multiple power trays full of cool powers. (and we are building synergy between the trays)

That sounds to me like the Ranger will have 6 melee abilities AND 6 ranged abilities (plus up to 4 more for each from promotions and disciplines). So the Ranger already has a sizable advantage over other archetypes. The consumable arrows thing is meant as a balancing mechanism to bring the Ranger down to the level of other archetypes. There's no need to force the same restriction on them. If the Ranger runs out of arrows, she can still do full melee. If a Confessor runs out of reagents, she can't do anything.

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More crafted items for in game effects.  If you want to use guild chat, have an item.  Want to talk to someone through a local in game chat,  have an item.  Or have an item that can be altered and upgraded to give those functions.  

 

It is always good to have more items to loot off people. Also, will help support the pawnbroker industry.


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More crafted items for in game effects.  If you want to use guild chat, have an item.  Want to talk to someone through a local in game chat,  have an item.  Or have an item that can be altered and upgraded to give those functions.  

 

It is always good to have more items to loot off people. Also, will help support the pawnbroker industry.

The problem with something like that is it can, and will be totally bypassed by voice chat.

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It's not a tax on the class.  It's a layer of realism and, much more importantly, a balance for what is typically a HUGE advantage to ranged classes over melee when the ranged class has unlimited ammo.  And don't act like you don't know that.  Seriously.

 

But it is a tax. As presented, there's no inherent advantage to having ammo. You don't see champions and confessors begging to have some ammo-like mechanic added for them as well. And it doesn't function as a 'ranged tax' if mages are exempt from it.

 

And the 'realism' argument doesn't mean anything. This is a game, not a simulation. 

 

From what little information we have know, it seems like ammo is the price rangers pay in exchange for a full suite of both melee and ranged skills.


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On topic of crafting, I predict that Rangers and Stalkers and possibly other bow-users will all be able to craft basic arrows on their own, but the discipline that specializes in it can create a greater variety of arrows. Thus, the Ranger is self-sufficient without becoming redundant to the crafter.

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