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Sinole

Sinole's Opinions and Suggestions

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Hi guys, my name is Sinole and I'm a 2015 kickstarter backer. I just wanted to take the time and give my 2 cents about the game, and I apologize if my opinions/suggestions have been posted elsewhere, my interaction with the forums here have been sparse up until recently.

 

First off I wanted to say that imo I'm glad to see that Crowfall seems to catering to hardcore PvPers. When I first saw Crowfall on kickstarter what I was hoping it would be was an MMOBA style type of game, and a year later that still seems to be the case. I wanted a game where sandbox arena PvP was front and center, but there is also an open world for me to interact with other players as well as develop my own personal character over time. So far the dream is coming along nicely.

 

That being said I do hope that there is still plenty for RPers to rejoice. I still want to interact with others in this virtual world through our virtual avatars, otherwise this would just be another MOBA clone, its just for me competitive PvP is always my main focus within MMOs.

So my suggestions for now (surprising to myself) would be to keep one aspect of RPG based MMOs, really the only thing I like about PvE: Raids and Raid bosses. Has this been talked about? Could this be a thing? Maybe Raid bosses could be actual Gods!

Again sorry if  this has already been discussed, I don't really have time to read through every post from the past year.

 

What do you all think?

Also I'm curious if others have the same opinions as me, when you supported Crowfall were you looking for a more PvP based experience or were you more attracted to the lore RPG aspect?

So pumped for this game I've wanted an MMO that I can really get into since playing Warhammer Online (RvR!!!) and then being disappointed with every MMO I've played since (WoW, TSO, FFXIV)

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This will never happen. Raids take up a MASSIVE amounts of development resources. Making a single level in a video-game takes a great many weeks, and often even months, of work; and raids take about as much work as a level.

 

This games is being built with PvPers in mind, and PvPers alone (with some limited side-considerations so the game is not completely unpalatable to other groups. After all. even hardcore PvPers want a brake from a constant battlefield. Besides limited PvE acts as a gateway to good'n'proper PvP).

 

Adding raids takes a MASSIVE amount of resources away from that PvP and moves those resources to a side-audience that everyone in this community was specifically trying to avoid.

 

I understand the sentiment. Everyone wants a mega-game that can cater to everyone's desire. But that will never be possible, and even if it were, Crowfall certainly is not it.

Edited by TragicNumberOne

Might I interest you in a low-interest mortgage?

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PvE raids are counter to the vision of CF for several reasons.

  1. CF is aiming for player-generated content. Waiting for devs to create content sux, and you burn through it fast, then wait again.
  2. Dev-generated content is boring after playing it a time or two. Players are unpredictable and often smart.
  3. Gold-sellers thrive on predictable PvE raids so that they can program macros to accumulate stuff.
  4. Players buying stuff from these exploiters will flood the game market with that stuff and break the economy with hyperinflation. 

I think the K-Mart of MMO's already exists!  And it ain't us!   :)

 

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As it has been said, raids and PvE end-game can be really fun in certain games, but in Crowfall the monsters are mostly used to make the environment deadly. There shouldn't be much loots coming from monsters and they don't grant experience when we kill them, so there's no reason for the players to kill them repetitively.

 

However as some monsters will be very difficult to kill and require several players to take down, we may see some sort of larger PvE fights where a group of players will need to coordinate their force to clear and take control of certain locations.

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I'd be all for some dedicated guild to turn their EK into a raid or dungeon, however I don't want them wasting time creating actual raids into the game.

 

PvE can enhance the experience of PvP, but if it does not do that then there's no point in having such in this game.

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That being said I do hope that there is still plenty for RPers to rejoice. I still want to interact with others in this virtual world through our virtual avatars, otherwise this would just be another MOBA clone, its just for me competitive PvP is always my main focus within MMOs.

So my suggestions for now (surprising to myself) would be to keep one aspect of RPG based MMOs, really the only thing I like about PvE: Raids and Raid bosses. Has this been talked about? Could this be a thing? Maybe Raid bosses could be actual Gods!

 

Most RPG fans (including myself) wants immersion. I have yet to see an MMORPG where raids actually helped immersion. It's a damn chore, like doing your daily job. Crowfall has already elements that will make RPers happy: solid lore, interesting world, growing community, complex character development system, and choices that actually matter and have consequences.

Edited by ravenheart87

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On the plus side, at least this thread provides some useful supporting evidence for my theory about thread titles containing the poster's own name.


Official "Bad Person" of Crowfall

"I think 1/3rd of my postcount is telling people that we aren't turning into a PvE / casual / broad audience game." -

Tully

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THey have already explained that any PvE system they use in this game will be derived from a system they already built for a PvP purpose. We know that we will have PvE mobs in the game, but there is no PvE progression. Mobs will drop only loot related to crafting (we will likely have to skin mobs for leather and other materials) or they will be added in areas where they make sense to help the CWs feel alive and immersive. We will also have mobs in the EKs, using the same technology from the ones in the CWs.

 

Now raids imply another level of AI and challenge given to mobs. They would have to create a PvE department in ACE basically, just to work out PvE fights and AI, their balance, how many people can do it, systems of loot and progression. None of that has a place in PvP since the progression and gear in there will be entirely based on crafting and player economy. Raids also require some form of balance on how much damage archetype deals and such, ACE has already stated that archetypes will be designed thinking of a PvP situations only,  and will have different utilities but will not be necessarily balanced. Balancing archetype abilities for both PvP and PvE is dowright impossible, WOW has been trying to do that for the past 11 years and has failed in every expansion.

TLDR: if you want PvE raids, go play some other game.

Edited by LGAllastair

KjUVOZg.png


Guild Leader/ High Elder

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Ok thanks for the response. Like I said I'm way more for PvP in any MMORPG, I figured Raids wouldn't be happening any time soon if at all I was just wondering if it would maybe be a thing down the road long after the release of the full game. I completely understand that for CF its way more important to just focus on the PvP to work towards and maintain balance in that aspect without having to worry about a larger PvE aspect.  Much prefer combat with actual people than AI.

Ok Idk if I should start another topic or just include this here so for now I'm just going to keep my suggestions in this topic and hope it gets a response.
2 other suggestions:

 

1. I know this topic is kind of a hot debate at the moment with the inclusion of vessels, but I'm wondering if this has been talked about even before the announcement was made: will our characters be able to have multiple (preferably 2) item builds that are easy to switch between? I'm thinking like in Diablo 2, I know most other MMOs do it now but D2 is really what I'm picturing where you have set up 2 different sets of weapons/weapon shield, or possibly be able to swap even armor with the click of a button as well? I know people have been debating being able to switch vessels mid campaign.. I'm more for at the very least being able to have 2 weapon sets easily swappable, how much further we care to take item set swapping is up for debate, and as has been discussed in other threads the inclusion of vessels makes this a somewhat tricky topic.

2. Is there a way that we could talk about/ look at another way of doing guilds different from how they are done in other games? I'm not really sure what I mean by this, I'm mostly bringing it up for the sake of discussion but also my feelings about guilds are this: everyone wants to be the founder and leader of a guild, but obviously this can't be... Is there a way that we could make two different categories of groups/guilds? One could be a smaller 'group' and another could be a larger actual 'guild'. The group could be like a collection of your close irl friends/people you've met and developed close relationships with online and the guilds could be bigger groups like PvP focused guilds or like craftsmans guilds etc.
I'm pretty sure its already been discussed that people would be limited to one guild (I could be wrong) I actually kind of like in TSO that you can be in multiple guilds, but just bringing this up for discussion and I think it would be cool if CF could find a new way to handle guilds.
I can't remember what game it was (maybe Warhammer:Online) there was something like this where you got XP benefit from partying up with people in your small group and this was different from partying up with guildmembers.

Again, sorry if these things have been touched upon elsewhere, feel free to link me the thread/s if they have.

 

Stay classy Crows!

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1. I don't think you will see gear swapping. It sounds like weapon choices will be fairly limited for each archetype, so weapon swapping won't make much sense. I suppose you could swap between 2 different versions of the same weapon type to change your stats, but I don't see that as being necessary or even desirable in this game.

 

2. The game already allows for sub guilds.

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I'd be all for some dedicated guild to turn their EK into a raid or dungeon, however I don't want them wasting time creating actual raids into the game.

 

PvE can enhance the experience of PvP, but if it does not do that then there's no point in having such in this game.

 

Just to add onto this idea of player made dungeon type things. Imagine if Necromancers could create zombies that you could stick in your keep during a campaign to be cannon fodder for people attacking your base when your guild is out scouting or something or maybe be a buffer between you and the rest of your team while you prepare for the attack in the deepest catacombs of your base. You could make it so that the necromancer would have to be within a certain distance of the zombies to keep them active and he could be like an early warning system for an imminent attack. 

 

Of course if they end up spawning a lot of zombies in their base it might be annoying to have to deal with all of them so what if you send in your stealthy character to sneak past all the traps and zombies and such of said keep, kill the necromancer and then all the zombies fall dead!

Now all the attackers have to worry about  would be other sorts of traps they might have set up. This type of thing would probably take a lot of work but just a post launch idea suggestion.

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Nice to see the "Raid and PVE" suggestions are still going strong a year later.

 

:) I'm not making fun though. Those types of activities just aren't in the design scope of Crowfall. It's all about player interaction and politics combined with solid combat.

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ACE has confirmed no minionmancer playstyle. Buildings will have limited thrall spots where you can emplace guard thralls and some classes/disciplines will have access to a single pet. For armies of undead you'll want a different game.


Official "Bad Person" of Crowfall

"I think 1/3rd of my postcount is telling people that we aren't turning into a PvE / casual / broad audience game." -

Tully

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ACE has confirmed no minionmancer playstyle. Buildings will have limited thrall spots where you can emplace guard thralls and some classes/disciplines will have access to a single pet. For armies of undead you'll want a different game.

Would be cool, though, if beasts were a resource. Go out and capture an elephant, and tame it. Boom. War elephant. I don't think there should just be a war elephant for everyone (like mounts in other games where everyone can just procure infinite mounts). But... They could ne a resource, just like metals and stone and woods for siege engines. I wouldn't be against someone getting to tame a dragon and ride it into a siege, IF there were a few on a given map and it was a very difficult thing to do. And if the dragon were, again, kind of treated like a unique siege weapon, power-wise. It should be pretty easy for a whole city's defense to take down the dragon, but it's something you have to focus on in lieu of something else at the time.

 

Apparently the plan is to have warhorses and the like, so why not more exotic beasts?

Edited by Lephys

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Lephys. Because everything's better with a smile facepalm.

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That it was. In all fairness, however, that only talks about mounts, and their ability to expand your inventory. While generally "taming animals" is obviously bery similar, it covers more than just mounts and hauling.

 

My point was that there might be room for something at least resembling "let's team up and take down this big baddy" gameplay, for those people wishing for raids. The entire game isn't going to be you swinging a sword at another player. Strictly speaking, there will be plenty of PvE content/gameplay, though only as a subset of a greatef PvP element. It will be cooperation towards a task that further's your team's chances of beating another team, and never just "yeah! Let's log in a progress our character and get cool loot!".

Edited by Lephys

This post brought to you by...
Lephys. Because everything's better with a smile facepalm.

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