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Querzis

Anyone else feels like Cybele and Yaga are in the wrong pantheon?

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So I was reading Cybele lore and I kinda felt like I was reading a textbook definition of chaotic good. I struggle to find a single trait they gave her that doesn't strike me as chaotic. But then shes in the Order Pantheon. Meanwhile, you got Yaga which is the embodiment of how-things-work! Nevermind the rest of her lore shes the frigging embodiment of how things work! You can't get more lawful then that. And shes also the embodiment of the natural and inevitable conclusion of the cycle of life! A world with no life as been described a few time as the ultimate form of Order. But then shes in the Chaos Pantheon.

 

Anyone else feels like those two really got mixed up? I mean I could understand if it was just using the old weird, first edition D&D definition of Order and Chaos (which is basically good and evil) but this is obviously not the case here. The only outright benevolent goddess is a balance goddess (and is also dead). So yeah, everyone else make sense but I have really no idea how Cybele ended up in the Order Pantheon and Yaga in the Chaos Pantheon cause honestly, out of all the gods, Cybele strikes me as the most chaotic one and Yaga as the most lawful one.

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"By tradition, all life begins with Cybele (sowing), blossoms into the realm of Gaea (growth and prosperity) and eventually concludes with Yaga (reaping). This is why she is commonly shown as a reaper or harvester."
Consider also that Gods of the Order are supposed to be trying to save the dying worlds from the Hunger, while Chaos are trying to appease the Hunger by sacrificing them. It wouldn't make sense for a life giver to want to sacrifice worlds. It wouldn't make sense for a reaper to save them.


231e101d88.jpg

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Maybe. I guess you can blame Todd for disliking black and white characters and mixing everything up in a blender.

I was also confused about Maeve being Order. In the end i really don't care that much because i'm chilling in the balance zone and every side has dickheads.

Edited by Navtyr

Welcome the hunger

Todd is Love, Todd is Life.

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I was also confused about Maeve being Order.

It didn't make sense to me at first, since she has a grudge with her brother, however, it makes sense in the fact her domain (the seas) is heavily dependent on the worlds surviving. It would make sense that she would want to save them from the hunger.


"Through the travail of ages, midst the pomp and toils of war, have I fought and strove and perished, countless times among the stars.
As if through a glass and darkly, the age old strife I see, when I fought in many guises and many names, but always me."

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"By tradition, all life begins with Cybele (sowing), blossoms into the realm of Gaea (growth and prosperity) and eventually concludes with Yaga (reaping). This is why she is commonly shown as a reaper or harvester."

Consider also that Gods of the Order are supposed to be trying to save the dying worlds from the Hunger, while Chaos are trying to appease the Hunger by sacrificing them. It wouldn't make sense for a life giver to want to sacrifice worlds. It wouldn't make sense for a reaper to save them.

 

Then why even call them the Order and Chaos pantheon if it has absolutely nothing to do with Order or Chaos?

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Then why even call them the Order and Chaos pantheon if it has absolutely nothing to do with Order or Chaos?

 

Well, the Order pantheon seeks to actively fight and destroy the Hunger, which as a tactic seems to lend towards maintaining Order and protecting the worlds throughout the universe, despite what anyone's personal reasons are.

 

Meanwhile, the Chaos Pantheon wants to appease the Hunger by allowing it to have its fill of worlds, which lends to spreading Chaos as worlds are rent apart and populations are swallowed up.

 

I imagine the naming mostly comes down to Order and Chaos being very common names for defining alignment in RPGs and MMORPGs. I mean, what names would you use for the Order and Chaos Pantheons, if not Order and Chaos?


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Did I miss some info because I never seen any info about what each side was fighting for.

 

Consider also that Gods of the Order are supposed to be trying to save the dying worlds from the Hunger, while Chaos are trying to appease the Hunger by sacrificing them.

 

Also all the myths of the gods are very vague. They are fighting on their sides for their own reasons, not just because that's the kind of god they are. I have my theory why yaga is on the chaos side but a theory is all it is right now.

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I would say the factions are less based on the gods personality than they are their goals. Cybele is flighty and impulsive, but likes having people around, if for no other reason that to admire her, which requires mortals to exist, Maeve wants the throne and believes strength of arms gives her that right, so she too requires there be something to rule over and the idea of appeasing a foe instead of fighting it would probably be considered abhorrent to her. You can spin this off to most other Gods as well, Kane is broken up over Gaea's death and the resulting fallout with his brother, so he might be suicidal an willing to watch the cosmos burn and so on.

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OP is right. Their positions should be switched on the tree.

Todd has likely fallen victim to the fallicy in which chronology tends to go from left to right because we read left to right.

I figure Cybele and Yaga sprang into being at the same instant, when Gaia "died" she was split into 3 entities.

But Yaga is old and Cybele is a teenager.

Talk about multiple personality disorder!

Edited by BurgundytheRed

Honestly, you are the type of person that is much to competitive, has zero compassion for other people and think you are better than everyone else. You likely love to troll people on a day to day bases to get others angry and laugh about it. You make playing any online game unfun for everyone else.  -Kuroaka

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I have my theory why yaga is on the chaos side but a theory is all it is right now.

My theory on Yaga is that she has seen all the outcomes of how the war could end, and siding with Chaos and the hunger, it is by far the gentlest.

 

OP is right. Their positions should be switched on the tree.

Todd has likely fallen victim to the fallicy in which chronology tends to go from left to right because we read left to right.

 

I have to politely disagree both here and with OP. The way I see it, Yaga is simply bat-crap crazy. If one cannot see the present, only the past and future, the future becomes less of a line and more like the street planning in Boston.

 

She doesnt see the future as a finished movie in a theater like most mortals and the other gods. She sees the movie as every single shot that was ever taken all at once, with every shot a possibility of being the right one. If you think of it like that, how can she not be crazy and chaotic?

 

Edit: Spelling

Edited by Brokienheart

"Through the travail of ages, midst the pomp and toils of war, have I fought and strove and perished, countless times among the stars.
As if through a glass and darkly, the age old strife I see, when I fought in many guises and many names, but always me."

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My theory on Yaga is that she has seen all the outcomes of how the war could end, and siding with Chaos and the hunger, it is by far the gentlest.

 

I have to politely disagree both here and with OP. The way I see it, Yaga is simply bat-crap crazy. If one cannot see the present, only the past and future, the future becomes less of a line and more like the street planning in Boston.

 

She doesnt see the future as a finished movie in a theater like most mortals and the other gods. She sees the movie as every single shot that was ever taken all at once, with every shot a possibility of being the right one. If you think of it like that, how can she not be crazy and chaotic?

 

Edit: Spelling

 

My theory on Yaga isn't so different from yours, I also think ship prefers the outcome of the chaos  winning but she also sympathizes with the gods of chaos. I don't think this chaos vs. orders is as black and white as people have been making it. I still want to know where people got the idea that the chaos gods are feeding the hunger.

 

But Yaga being crazy???? Yeah I can see that. But at the same time she is the goddess of wisdom. Whatever choices she make aren't just to be taken lightly. There is more to this story and I would love to dig deeper into it. Point being, they didn't mess up the alignment. It was intentional to form this dynamic story that can change at a whim and start to make us all begin speculating out own theories. You wouldn't get the same effect with that cookie cutter mindset you got there OP.

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I still want to know where people got the idea that the chaos gods are feeding the hunger.

 

Here about 50 seconds or so in.


"Through the travail of ages, midst the pomp and toils of war, have I fought and strove and perished, countless times among the stars.
As if through a glass and darkly, the age old strife I see, when I fought in many guises and many names, but always me."

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Here about 50 seconds or so in.

 

"The lords of chaos are willing to let these worlds be destroyed in a hope to appease the hunger."  

 

Sounds like they are passive observers, no proof of feeding from that quote. 


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ACE has distinguished that Order seeks to stop the hunger and preserve the worlds and chaos is content to let it consume them. Balance seeks to keep things neutral, but both remaining deities seem relatively unconcerned about the mortal or godly realms.

 

Lore response: For all we know, the order and chaos naming structure comes from the worshipers not the deities themselves. If your world was about to be consumed by the Hunger and a faction of the gods wanted to protect your world (their motives ranging from entirely selfless to self-serving) you would think of them as keeping order, whereas those who would simply let your world burn (freeze?) would seem to be content with chaos.

 

As for cybele and yaga: cybele views her worshipers as very important (who else would bring her so much attention) so obviously she would want to protect the worlds (and the worshipers on it) from the Hunger. Yaga on the other hand, while representing knowledge, also represents the ending and reaping, and nothing beats the hunger destroying the world as an ending in this universe. It also follows that our crows go throughout the worlds scavenging, in other words reaping, the resources and souls because of the Hunger. So why would she stop the thing that she represents: an ending and the reaping.

Edited by FrostSword

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Interesting topic... I'm not sure we have enough information to start questioning the alignments of the Gods within the Pantheon. I will say that Yaga is the God most appealing to me at the moment. 

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I think it's a lot more simple than everybody thinks. It's life vs death. Sun vs moon. Night vs day. Land vs sea. Young vs old. Truth vs lies.

 

They're just picking themes that are generally seen as opposites and then giving them personalities that match the stereotypes.

 

I'm already decided on Chronos.

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Corvus Silver and Frostsword are right.

We have to let go from classical forms of order and chaos. They are words. And this is crowfall. The question is not how they fit into our old thoughts. The question is what they (the words order and chaos) mean within the world of crowfall. Answer: Chaos and order depend on the relation between the gods and the hunger.

 

Let's take a look at it.

 

Order

Cybele: Youngest god(dess). Surely she don't want it all to end. She loves the life. She might not understand why. But hey, why should the party stop?

Arkon: Allfathers firstborn. Hunger? No! He is the rightfull heir. It is his duty. And the hunger is part of his shame. He must fight it. He won't take it.

Maeve: Allfathers thirdborn. Strongest god. Nobody else can stand against here. Why should she kneel before the hunger. 

Hero: The first champion. He dies. He wakes up. With no memories but that he have to fight. Against the hunger (similar to us other poor crows). There is no question.

 

Chaos

Yaga: Valkyns sister. She who knows. She knows that everything ends. And the hunger is a way to let it end. One brother gone. Another just an uninterested watcher. The sooner it ends, the better. Let it come.

Kane: The wretched god. Lost all his will to live after Gaeas death and kill of D'Orion. He welcomes the end. It should have come sooner.

Malekai: Kronos unwanted son. Treated bad for what he had been. Transformed into a frustreted beeing. What else could he do to stand against his father, the eternal watcher, but to end his watch - and so win in the end.

Zaleena: Lyessas daughter, sister of the crushed moon, raised by Malekai, only god outside valkyns bloodline. She hates them all. She is not of their kind. Let them all die and restore the old system. Let Lyessa and Yaemir, their parents, come together again - without the influence of those damned breed of Valkyn.

 

Balance

Kronos: Allfathers brother. He is the watcher. It is not his part to choose sides. He might mark the point of the beginning of a new time (like with the moon thing). But thats all. A watcher doesn't talk. He just sits there and takes a look. End of story.

Gaea: Allfathers sister, Maeves half-siser. Dead. Doesn't matter.

Illara: Youngest daughter of Valkyn. The traveller. Why should she care? She is not bound to this universe. All of them, gods and mortals, don't understand. Why waste a single thought about them and their selfmade problems?

D'Orion: Gaeas and Arkons son. First of the Elken. Dead. Doesn't matter

 

 

I'd say that the lowest common denominator is clear. We just have to rethink our old ("not-crowfall") definitions of chaos and order. We really should.

 

 

P.S.: But i would agree. In a classical way Cybele would be chaos and Yaga would be order. So: Crowfall is refreshing, isn't it? Got to use our brains in different ways than usual. I like it. ;)

Edited by Kraahk

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