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Guilds and Sub-Guilds

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So. I was talking to a fellow guild member yesterday and we had a debate on how the Sub-Guild system work, we came up with many ideas but never came to an actual conclusion (as we have no actual facts to back anything up). So I was wondering... Does anyone know any facts upon this subject?

 

We were wondering whether the Sub-Guild is actually apart of the main 'Guild', so that the Guild Leader controls the whole lot and/or he/she can set specific members to be leaders of the Sub-Guilds. Do they work as a rank tree maybe? I heard that the Sub-Guilds can even have Sub-Guilds, so maybe it will work in the respect that you have: The main Guild, and then it splits down so that the Sub-Guilds become Crafting based, Fighting Based, and Scouting based (for example).
 

I was also wondering what the community's ideas on the case were. So what do you think will happen?


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I'm not certain of something.

 

I suppose a sub-guild have an autonomous structure.

It means, as a leader of a sub-guild, I can decide to let a player join or expell them, I can assign ranks and so on.

I imagine the leader of the main guild receive an acknowledgement of all this facts.

 

On the other hand, a main guild can decide to reject the affiliation of a sub-guild (for example as a consequence of the wrong doing of the sub-guild leader).

 

In my opinion all other agreements about supervision over a sub-guild are matter of diplomacy rather then of the game-system. :) 


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Mathis: Why? Look at them. They're young and strong, full of life and laughter. And lust, aye, more lust than they know what to do with. There will be many a bastard bred this night, I promise you. Why pity?
Catelyn: Because it will not last. Because they are the knights of summer, and winter is coming.

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I would guess that the guild system will share details with the hierarchical EK landlord system. From a developer sight of view it makes sense to use the same basic system and customize it if needed to make it fit into various parts of the game. Saves time and money.


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Check out how they worked in SB.

 

Yeah, it so far sounds similar.  Essentially a pretty standard guild structure overlaid with the hierarchy structure.  I am less sure about how they are going to navigate their plan to have one guild per account with being on multiple Campaign Worlds.  First, I suspect that on each CW (and in the EK-verse), the hierarchy is unique - so your guild can be a sub-guild on one world and the nation leader on another.  Second, I'm thinking about the Crow who plays with their guild on The Dregs but also wants to play on God's Reach without that guild - how does that function?


Mic MWH, Member of Mithril Warhammers since 2003,


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They create possibilities and limit restrictions You choose your own path.

Wearing a guild tag can't force someone to be on your side. They might be spies or traitors. And by this fulfilling an important part in this game.

We can use different vessels on different worlds, be it campaigns and or kingdoms.

 

I would assume that (technically) guild membership isn't such a big thing in the campaigns at all. You show your official loyalty by carrying the banner you choose. But you follow your own agenda. And people will measure you by your deeds.

 

Regarding the highscore i would presume that it might be purely guild-"name" based, no matter if this guild is 4th cousin of the second daughter of the brother of whoever. At least in the guild vs. guild campaigns.

 

Though it might be very interesting to have an additional highscore, showing only the master-guilds with the added points of their sub-guilds, sub-sub-guilds, sub-sub-sub.... The gods have sides. These could be the sides of the mortals.


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While a bit off topic I think that there should be an Alliance tag more so than sub-guild tags.  Both Shadowbane and Darkfall ended up being Alliance vs Alliance over guild vs guild.  In some cases "Sub-guilds" were created only because there wasn't a way to communicate easily within an alliance. 


Maj, Keeper of Da Plank - The Shipwrecked Pirates

 

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Disclaimer: sorry if the math doesn't add up. I'm being quick.

 

This is the information we have on guilds and sub-guilds.

If there's any more please let me know:

 

Bending the knee: 

Sub-guilds & Alliances: 

 

So we know a few things:

  • Guilds will be limited in size. I've heard the numbers 100 and 300 being thrown around.

  • It might work like a document type database as Todd suggested. This means:

  • Instead of a member you could have a sub-guild which in turn could also contain 100 to 300 people.

We don't know yet how deep this might go. Imagine its 3 layers deep with a King, Dukes and Counts.

A king has 299 Dukes, who each have 299 Counts, who each have 300 Members. That's close to 2.6 million players  :D So I doubt it'll work like that.

 

If I had to speculate they would either

  • Put a limit in depth based on their hierarchy titles (King, Arch-Duke, Duke, Count) with a restriction on how many "vassals" respective titles could have:
    • Example: maybe a primary guild will be 100 people max, but you can have only 10 sub guilds, who in turn can have only 50 people... who in turn can have only 10 sub guilds who can have only 20 people... Now you have the same three layers, but they make only 690 players maximum.
  • and/or... they limit the total amount of separate objects that may exist in their array. For example... A king may have 99 Dukes if he wants... Who in turn can have 99 counts if they want also... but if the total size of the structure hits 700 people then nobody can "recruit" anymore.

I know we're on the speculation train here... but I'm certain they will balance this in terms of how many people participate in a campaign world. For example, if a Dregs campaign server contains 5000 people maximum... then I could see a cap on total array elements be 1000 people max. Essentially 1/5th of the server per group.

 

My mind's eye (while managing my expectations) sees a campaign world start with "many kings" all saying "the throne is mine by right".

But this "bending of the knee" mechanic might shift groups of players as objects into other guilds. A game-play mechanic where one's loyalty moving from campaign to campaign will be remembered.

 

It would be even more intense if it were so that the king and his bannermen would get a larger fraction of the embargo. And dukes would get < kings but > counts... People that didn't bend the knee or were not able to fit into the cap would end up with 0%.

 

It would also be cool if at the end of the campaign world this entire structure falls apart and resets for the next campaign. And all these objects are separate objects again.

 

This would raise the stakes even more for people to want to be on top of the pyramid.

 

I very much look forward to ACE fleshing this out more.

During the kickstarter this concept was the one thing that made me feel like it was Christmas eve.

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Also consider the possible game-play here...

 

Imagine maximum alliances sizes of 1/5th of the campaign player base...

 

In a perfect world you end up with 5 sides. But no, there will be many more because people are proud, stubborn and rigid.

 

Team 1/5 might have an abundance of lumber but is in need of stone

Team 2/5 might have an abundance of stone but is in need of lumber

 

Team 1 and 2 might make the decision to trade resources together. Strengthening them both.. causing a risk for one to be able to overtake the other... But its just a sensible win/win at this point of the campaign.

 

Very interesting stuff.

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The Dregs band might be no alliance, no sub-guilds only single guilds? I'm still not clear on the differences between Dregs and Shadows (other than import/export and decay).


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I'm still not clear on the differences between Dregs and Shadows

 

The devs have consistently refused to offer any firm info on this distinction. My speculation at this point, now that we've been given the vessel reveal, is that Dregs will have vessel dropping/looting while Shadow has crows retaining their vessels through death and respawn.


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"I think 1/3rd of my postcount is telling people that we aren't turning into a PvE / casual / broad audience game." -

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Sure they will be made outside the campaigns... 

 

But looking at a big universe with lots of worlds..

 

Maybe The Axecutter guild and the Stonebite Guild are fighting in Campaign one... The Stonebite Guild is stronger.. but may loose because there are Guild 3 + 4 + 5 allied together.

On the other Side is Campaign two.. The Axecutters are strong here... 

So maybe the Axecutters make a deal... The Axecutters help the Stonebiters in Campaign one.. so Stonebite can win Campaign one an get the most benefit out of that win. In Return the Stonebiters help the Axecutters in Campaign two. One Hand washes another.

That brings some interesting strategic decissions ... and they are not limited to the Campaign Worlds..

True, Most Guilds will not have the numbers to focus on more than one campaign, but with the Vessel System there will be a possibilty to help another guild in specific Time windows and get help at another time.

I Think its Interesting to explore what to do...

 


Bavarie Blue / Happy Tree Friends (HTF) and Pirates of Carribbean (POC)

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