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Handies

I am really not looking forward to the launch zerg days

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Off Topic:  I got a chuckle as I drew a correlation between Handies and freeze's avatars =)

 

On Topic:

   It will be interesting to see how it pans out.  I am hoping myself for a scenario as described above, post by killcrit, where more specialized groups can whomped zerg groups. 

 

V/R,

Vagantem

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A zerg is generally lesser skilled players with a couple moderately skilled players leading the charge, that is until a large guild whoops someone then a zerg becomes a large group of players. It's all subjective and it seems like a couple of the campaigns seem designed for large scale game play so I think its logical to expect zergs will exist, as long as there is the means for a smaller more skilled group of players to kill a zerg, I don't see a problem.

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Looking forward to the zergs!! Smaller scale random encounters isn't the only fun form of owpvp.

 

Opinion of course, but i wholly disagree. As an actual soldier with an interest in warfare both archaic and modern, zergs generally poorly simulate the ebb and flow of the true chaos of war which often times is made up of small skirmishes next to each other and a lot of "wrong place and wrong time".

 

Anyways, I've always had more fun in tighter skirmishes both PvE and PvP and have never understood the desire to want the big 25 man raids and the big 100 man zergs. The bigger the size of your group the less relevant you are (i.e. dying as the only healer in a group of 5 vs dying as one of 15 in a group of 50) and the more you have to compete for (in PvE mostly).

 

Not to mention the cumbersomeness of translating it through a game world with flashy animations and unrealistic camera controls... I've been there done that, but I've never enjoyed it. My WvW joy as always been the tight small group skirmishes of skill.


Wearily do I sleep eternity away.

Without fear or haste, on bedding made of solitude and silence.

 

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Have to see how many people CF can handle in one place.  Hard to have big zerg on zerg action if the game cant handle it.  Personally, I prefer smaller skirmishes where you get fatter loot.


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A zerg is just a large army. It's inevitable really. Some large armies are very coordinated and some are just mindless numbers which I suppose 'zerg' is more usually associated to.

 

While the OP may not be looking forward to it (who does really), I think watching the politics and rise and falls of guilds will be incredibly fun to watch.

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That is what your spy account is for.  You get her into the zerg guild and use that info to hurt the zerg.  Just relay the info to zerg guild #2 that zerg guild #1 is doing whatever.  Then your main account is free to go check rare spawns and foragables.  If you are smart you get zerg guild #2 to pay you for the info or for a cut of loot.  That way zerg guild #2 thinks they are screwing you over, but in reality you are just using them.


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Maybe the friendly fire mechanic will cut down on some of the zerging. I'm no fool, and I know people will still zerg, but they will be forced to at least have some form of cohesion if they are to be successful. If I were sitting in a development meeting with Artcraft I would stress we mostly need to give the players the tools they need to deal with zergs. Also when we talk about zergs, are we talking about zergs in open field combat trying to steal your stuff while you are on the move? Are we talking about zergs attacking your stronghold? Each encounter you come up with will have different strategies on how to deal with it.

Lets take open field combat first. First, if you are in a vulnerable position carrying something valuable you should already be using extreme caution. You can help determine the rules of engagement and carefully plan your trek across the map. Obviously if you are outnumber 10 to 1, you are going to lose out 99 percent of the time. There's not much they can do to stop this type of behavior and it is going to happen. But with careful planning you should be able to mitigate some of the risks. This game is not for the solo player. You will need a band of people to help you along your way no matter how good you are. Besides, if I lose and someone steals my stuff, it will make revenge that much sweeter when I make a plan to take it back.

Now lets look at sieges. Lets say someone is zerging your stronghold. As long as it isn't easy peasy to get inside the castle walls you should be able to realistically deal with this if the battle is say 30 vs 100 (the 30 are defending). We should have a lot of ranged options available that can cast down an AOE on the large groups of the opposing side. In a real battle you would have archers on the wall reigning down arrows and confessors could be shooting precision strike fireballs on very tight groups. ACE could also develop a slider that could possibly increase the amount of friendly fire damage you produced based on the amount of an advantage you have. That way you can force the zerg to spread out a little bit and hopefully manage the battle a little better. Storming a castle should be no small feat, and the bigger the castle the more fire power you should need to breach the walls. It is realistic to assume that a smaller force defending a castle can beat a bigger force, as its been done in history over and over. That is why a siege is used as a tactic in the first place.

TLDR; The devs need to give themselves and the players the tools to ensure somewhat fair game play. I wish there was just a way to magically code where you could give the players that use real battlefield tactics do devastating damage to large groups of players. It could be done, but it would take a lot of testing and patience from the community.


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It's all relative, we'll just have to see. "Zerg" is what exactly? 20 to your 10? 50 to your 30? 120 to your 50? There is this false narrative that is being floated, almost as an absolute, implying that large groups of players cannot communicate, coordinate and execute skilled game play. Is this psychic friends network? Will there be mindless zergs? Absolutely. Will there be large groups of experienced people that play as a skilled, cohesive unit? You bet. Don't kid yourself, big numbers does not automatically equal "suck".


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Not one person mentioned how long fights can get with large numbers. I remember back on Thurin, I was at a bane consisting of 8 vs 9 fgs. 80 vs 90 people and it lasted 13 hours. That is not even the longest bane I have been in...

 

I remember Malog. I think it was us (SotD) and Societas Daemonica that were the last fighting CN on that heap. I guarantee there were probably around 350- 400 players on the fields for some of those. Slide show banes. We lost Malog. Thurin kept the threat out through a collective effort and the fortune of CN never having established there.

 

The funny thing is back in the day on Mourning, during the bane on Pleasure (DHL) I was part of the "Rainbow Alliance" against UDL/EQ/DHL. There was 24/7 asset destruction back then. People logged in in shifts almost. I think the entirety of pre-bane seiging and bane live lasted around 18 hours. It was crazy.

Edited by armegeddon

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