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Unveiling the Skill Trees - Official discussion thread

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I'm actually warming to the idea of only 1 general skill. I like the exclusivity of the crafting vs combat choice. I'd still like to see VIP improved in some meaningful way though.

Makes it hard to master everything, in turn making most people either focused or hybrid, which then leads to reliance on others thus a encouraging socializing.

 

I think this is good.

 

Being allowed to train only 1 general still means it is better to own multiple accounts instead of paying VIP. At least as far as a long-term plan goes. It is currently far too flawed.

 

To this, I believe that the only thing that matters is having that character on-the-spot when you need it. Sure, if you're spending all your time in the same general area, like EK, this might be useful, but they can only be playing 1 character at a time. Does it give them an advantage? Sure, but not much more than three focused individuals could get away with while socializing, playing how they want, and less financial burden.

 

Those who want to pay triple for a game so that they might be self-sufficient and lose out on the MMO experience... good on them?

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...

To this, I believe that the only thing that matters is having that character on-the-spot when you need it. Sure, if you're spending all your time in the same general area, like EK, this might be useful, but they can only be playing 1 character at a time. Does it give them an advantage? Sure, but not much more than three focused individuals could get away with while socializing, playing how they want, and less financial burden.

 

Those who want to pay triple for a game so that they might be self-sufficient and lose out on the MMO experience... good on them?

Your 3-person alternative doesn't work. This isnt a matter of 3 players vs 1 with VIP. This is a matter of 1 player with VIP or 3 accounts.

 

As to your supposed cost issue: if a person can pay for long-term VIP, they have enough money for 3 accounts instead. This means that a player's purchase decision is a matter of how long they want to play, and how much better VIP is relative to 3 accounts. Currently, 3 accounts is far more valuable (outside of a few fringe cases).

 

Quick aside: to a player intending to play for under 9 months VIP is arguably a better value.

Edited by TragicNumberOne

Might I interest you in a low-interest mortgage?

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Mr. Timothy Eisenzimmer,

 Please don't call nubs "chicks"!

That term is offensive to some females, even if you define it completely differently as a diminutive for newly hatched crows.

 

 

No problem, it was a one off but if I need to use it again should I go with Peeps or Hatchlings?

 

 

Being allowed to train only 1 general still means it is better to own multiple accounts instead of paying VIP. At least as far as a long-term plan goes. It is currently far too flawed.

 
I think crafters will have the most difficulty with this. 
Edited by tierless

I role play a wordsmith.

 

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I guess I didn't need to make that alpha skill tree's video after all...lol. 

You still could to go over each one,,,and then delve more in the crafting or explorer as well since most haven't seen that and many interested in the game may like too

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Your 3-person alternative doesn't work. This isnt a matter of 3 players vs 1 with VIP. This is a matter of 1 player with VIP or 3 accounts.

 

As to your money issue: you are paying for long-term VIP, you have enough money for 3 accounts instead. This means that your purchase decision is a matter of how long you want to play, and how much better VIP is relative to 3 accounts. Currently, 3 accounts is far more valuable (outside of a few fringe cases).

 

quick aside: to a player intending to play for under 9 months VIP is arguably a better value.

 

Ok, so... good on them? I'm not seeing a particular downside here. They pay more, and get whatever. They've bettered the system! But at a single moment of time, they won't have any more than me.

 

My view is that people who choose to buy 3 accounts for this are losing part of the experience, so I see no problem with it.

Edited by Dondagora

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oh nono, I fully understand...

 

ability bloat = devil's arsehole, skill bloat = diversity

Yes, actually.

 

Ability bloat is a matter of increasing the number of mechanical options a player has to a ridiculous amount. The mechanical and technological demands makes it dumb.

 

A ridiculous amount in options in creating a build. You can build to be a crafter or a combatant, or an explorer. You can then choose niches within this, such as an effective mace-maker versus an effective Confessor-killer. This is interesting diversity which demands only the player's consideration.

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Ok, so... good on them? I'm not seeing a particular downside here. They pay more, and get whatever. They've bettered the system! But at a single moment of time, they won't have any more than me.

 

My view is that people who choose to buy 3 accounts for this are losing part of the experience, so I see no problem with it.

Well, a player with a dedicated crafting account or two could have an advantage over you, but the bigger issue as I see it is that anyone wanting to make a name for themselves as a merchant/crafter is at a major disadvantage to combatants. Which seems counter intuitive to the importance that has been given to player made items and the fact they decay.

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No problem, it was a one off but if I need to use it again should I go with Peeps or Hatchlings?

 

 

 
I think crafters will have the most difficulty with this. 

 

Either seems unoffensive to me.

 

On a side note, archetype skill training is on the account level, just like general skills.

The same skills on different archetype trees probably don't apply to each other. It would be nice if mastering that skill on another archetype lowered the difficulty tier for that same skill on your present archetype, but I can understand if they never allow it.

The vessel's maximum level possible for the skill in question limits the maximum level a higher trained crow can express on that vessel, but you don't have to retrain in that archetype every time you get a new vessel.


I think the K-Mart of MMO's already exists!  And it ain't us!   :)

 

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Yes, actually.

 

Ability bloat is a matter of increasing the number of mechanical options a player has to a ridiculous amount. The mechanical and technological demands makes it dumb.

 

I know dude... it's ridiculous how some of these games expect us to reach the hotkeys 7-0, let alone hold down CTRL... total madness

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Ok, so... good on them? I'm not seeing a particular downside here. They pay more, and get whatever. They've bettered the system! But at a single moment of time, they won't have any more than me.

 

My view is that people who choose to buy 3 accounts for this are losing part of the experience, so I see no problem with it.

People buying 3 accounts aren't losing anything. They are exploiting the current business model in such a way as to gain an advantage that devs did not balance for. This is not even more expensive then VIP as you suggest. This means that the VIP system is effectively worthless aside from the previously mentioned fringe cases.

 

The way you dismissively say "they've bettered the system" is the very point I am arguing here. Systems should not be game-able (at least this one system as it is associated with the business-model).

Edited by TragicNumberOne

Might I interest you in a low-interest mortgage?

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I love it, but.... kind of what freeze said. I would rather have a bunch of abilities as an option rather fewer choices locked into a hot bar. Eash castable is going to cost mana/stamina/rage whatever. Let me make the decision on where I will spend it. Less is not more.

 

I have seen what came of games like Everquest 2. You'd have 10+ bars full of junk you rarely use. This was annoying to no end on a typical MMORPG game. Why would you want a hilariously convoluted, and cluttered screen on a more skill based title?

Edited by Genobee

I'm not an idiot, I simply choose not to think.

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I know dude... it's ridiculous how some of these games expect us to reach the hotkeys 7-0, let alone hold down CTRL... total madness

 

 

You said bloat. That's a somewhat moderate[10~15 abilities via swap-bar] amount. More is harder to keep track of for the average person and often becomes both confusing and pure rotation-oriented gameplay.

 

Though I admit it matters a lot in how it is done.

Edited by Dondagora

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People buying 3 accounts aren't losing anything. They are exploiting the current business model in such a way as to gain an advantage that devs did not balance for. This is not even more expensive then VIP as you suggest. This means that the VIP system is effectively worthless aside from the previously mentioned fringe cases.

 

The way you dismissively say "they've bettered the system" is the very point I am arguing here. Systems should not be game-able (at least this one system as it is associated with the business-model).

Ok, so there is some economical work to be done. I admit my wrongness in this area, this is an issue which should be addressed.

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I am excited and scared after seeing this update. On the one hand the amount of skills is exciting in the same way Path of Exile's skill tree is exciting. But it also makes me think how long will it take to max out an archetype. Further I feel like we shouldn't have to pick between combat and crafting with our general skills. I would prefer being able to train 1 general combat, 1 crafting, 1 exploration, and 1 arch. I guess it will depend on the curve to max the skills.

 

Also, are vessels intended to act as somewhat of a limiter to training in that it makes no sense to train a skill past what a vessel can commonly use. As I understand it, my Crow could have trained sword past what my vessel can use.

You could alternate within the same account. Meaning you pick a combat skill to train first then next a crafting one, then another combat. or train only combat for a while until your satisfied then train crafting for a while, or any kind of combo.

 

Long term progression and customization seems to be the goals here and not so much just grind for a bit then you're done with it type thing we have already been doing for years.

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The Path of Exile and FFX in me is super pumped about the number of skills. Like most people mentioned though, the planner in me really makes me pause and worry. Hopefully all of the skill trees will be posted at some point to allow for some planning and processing what is important.


"Through the travail of ages, midst the pomp and toils of war, have I fought and strove and perished, countless times among the stars.
As if through a glass and darkly, the age old strife I see, when I fought in many guises and many names, but always me."

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I have seen what came of games like Everquest 2. You'd have 10+ bars full of junk you rarely use. This was annoying to no end on a typical MMORPG game. Why would you want a hilariously convoluted, and cluttered screen on a more skill based title?

Yep would also take limited abilities with tons of skills that offer many paths of progression and customization over ability bloat games. Been there done that.

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I want an Anti-Decay Item room for my 3 character slots compensation!

Or perhaps a Special Relic Item that allows for training more abilities/skills at same time.

Hmm I Think there will be a "vessel" Limit. So if you can use one Vessel in your EK and two in two different Campaigns as normal Player..

 

The 3 + Char Slots will allow that you can use 6 Vessels... So no need for a compensation.

I Think the the +1 Vessel will be a Shop Item too. ;)

Edited by belgerog

Bavarie Blue / Happy Tree Friends (HTF) and Pirates of Carribbean (POC)

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You said bloat. That's a somewhat moderate[10~15 abilities via swap-bar] amount. More is harder to keep track of for the average person and often becomes both confusing and pure rotation-oriented gameplay.

 

Though I admit it matters a lot in how it is done.

 

woah 10-15... you're just being silly now

 

but I completely agree... it confuses the hell out of the average person

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