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Pann

Unveiling the Skill Trees - Official discussion thread

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Now for the big question:

 

If we train skills during Pre-Alpha / Alpha / Beta, does this carry over come launch day...

I think it's been stated as much that it WON'T happen. I would be actually disappointed if they did carry over.


"Through the travail of ages, midst the pomp and toils of war, have I fought and strove and perished, countless times among the stars.
As if through a glass and darkly, the age old strife I see, when I fought in many guises and many names, but always me."

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There would be a line for each to train etc to lower the decay time never said wipe or eliminate it plus the risk reward is the time spent to level up that skill line.

 and as yet we don't know the true time to level each tier of any skill as a Crafter this could make your goods 50% more valuable to your guild or said buyers as a Pvp'r this would be a added bonus. don't forget could be a line for your accessories  as well.

 

I dislike this idea due to it reducing the necessity of crafters. It effects the economy negatively.

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You absolutely must offer a web interface and smart phone app so that we can follow/change our skill training while not in game. This of course would be a VIP only feature. I could see that being a big selling point for people.

 

Based on your demographic research you know that your backers have jobs, families, etc. but are also competitive gamer's who will want to maximize their training time. If I'm going to finish training a skill while I'm at work I'd love to be able to switch to the next skill while at work. I would PAY EXTRA to do that. 

 

Think about it. 

 

Going to post this in the suggestion box also. 

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VIP tickets are not worthless if combined with multiple accounts, especially if players are acquiring them in-game.

 

The decision by ACE to lock an account to 1 name, 1 guild and 1 universal skill is a clever monetization plan imo.

 

It means, if I understood correctly, that if someone wants to be competitive in different sectors simultaneously (crafting, exploration, combat), this person may need to purchase more than 1 account.

 

If this player wants to train the huge universal Armor trees for his Knight while leveling up DPS or stealth universal skills for his assassin, he may be better to purchase a second account. Same thing for a crafter who would like to specialize quickly in Tailoring, Necromancy and Rune creation.

 

If a player wants to be in 3 guilds simultaneously, in different campaigns, he may need to purchase new accounts. Those who want to participate in the political intrigue, spying and betrayal may also need to get new accounts to hide their name.

 

I wouldn't be so surprised, at this pace, that Crowfall gets a best selling award not long after launch.

The one-name one-guild plan just makes multiple accounts even more valuable. Now, not only do you get more skill growth then the VIP tickets offer, but you also can now get 3 names, 3 guilds, and, as mentioned about 10 words ago, 3 general slots!

 

Locking accounts make VIP tickets less valuable, not more.

 

aside: in-game tickets give the VIP plan SOME redeeming value, but only to such a small portion of the player base (guild leaders, guild higher-ups, and basement-dwellers) that they really don't have much of a point. Especially if those people already have 3 accounts.

Edited by TragicNumberOne

Might I interest you in a low-interest mortgage?

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Sadly, not even I am pretentious enough to specifically PM the developers on a problem like this... Nor am I stupid enough to think they won't already know about this problem seeing as other people found this problem and posted it on the forums first.

 

You are a tad late to the "keep it secret" parade.

 

Well it's good to know you're not a pretentious asshat and that you are just repeating something you read on the forums that you agree with. I apologize for confusing you with someone prone to flashes of independent thought.

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absolutely must

 

so dramatic!

 

200.gif

 

but seriously though, allowing players to queue up new skills to switch to after the current ones reach a specified threshold solves this problem without needing an OOG interface. Would a phone app be nice to have? Sure. Are there easier ways to solve this problem given limited developer resources? Absolutely.


Official "Bad Person" of Crowfall

"I think 1/3rd of my postcount is telling people that we aren't turning into a PvE / casual / broad audience game." -

Tully

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You bring up a valid point. Such an approach will lead to what you describe, after all leveling X characters is only a click away right? I wonder, how much of a problem is it? EVE seems to embrace it. I wonder how ACE approached it.

 

I love to alt, but with the skills I can only get deep into one alt at a time, it might make more sense to grab another account for alting purposes.

Probably depends on how you want to alt. If you want a Combat alt and a crafting/exploring alt then sure have multiple accounts if you don't want to wait a long time to start training that secondary path after you have sufficiently trained your primary. But if you mean archetype/vessel alts then you can do that on one account as with VIP we can train 3 different archetypes at a time. General skills are just that, general and meant to apply to all archetypes.

Edited by pang

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I dislike this idea due to it reducing the necessity of crafters. It effects the economy negatively.

 

For a 20% or say 25% reduction in decay on a item?  It doesnt brake any economy It adds value to crafters   just as the player who takes the time and patience to level up a combat skill to do X amount of damage or  have X amount of protection....read again item still decays  but at longer rate. A craftier like this would be a bit more sought after.

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The one-name one-guild plan just makes multiple accounts even more valuable. Now, not only do you get more skill growth then the VIP tickets offer, but you also can now get 3 names, 3 guilds, and, as mentioned about 10 words ago, 3 general slots!

 

Locking accounts make VIP tickets less valuable, not more.

 

aside: in-game tickets give the VIP plan SOME redeeming value, but only to such a small portion of the player base (guild leaders, guild higher-ups, and basement-dwellers) that they really don't have much of a point. Especially if those people already have 3 accounts.

 

I'm not arguing about what's more valuable between VIP tickets and multiple accounts. I'm saying that VIP tickets are far from worthless.

 

On top of of getting 3 times as many Archetype passive training than basic accounts, VIP allows players to get store discounts, priority access to servers, head start with certain archetypes (if still applicable) and other cool benefits. Also VIP tickets are probably the easiest way to exchange real money for in-game resources.

 

Those are all things that players will not earn by solely purchasing multiple accounts, and we don't know yet what are the "other cool benefits".

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I have seen what came of games like Everquest 2. You'd have 10+ bars full of junk you rarely use. This was annoying to no end on a typical MMORPG game. Why would you want a hilariously convoluted, and cluttered screen on a more skill based title?

 

I want the option... to load as few, or as many abilities that I would like. I never stated an affinity for "10+ bars full of junk".  I would prefer more to less. 


.

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People buying 3 accounts aren't losing anything. They are exploiting the current business model in such a way as to gain an advantage that devs did not balance for. This is not even more expensive then VIP as you suggest. This means that the VIP system is effectively worthless aside from the previously mentioned fringe cases.

 

The way you dismissively say "they've bettered the system" is the very point I am arguing here. Systems should not be game-able (at least this one system as it is associated with the business-model).

 

The problem with the three account approach is that we don't yet know how ACE is going to deal with population limits in CWs which is less a abstract design decision and more a necessary limitation inflicted by technology. 

 

The traditional MMO approach is by limiting character creation or transfer to an over-populated server, and where it is map driven (such as GW2) queues to get in for each play session.  The triple-account player is taking up thrice the footprint if the evaluation is made on participatory accounts. 

 

The system could of course look at concurrent users and try and make accurate assumptions about how many of those inactive accounts are alts versus how many are waiting to log in Friday night.  That is fraught with peril as no one wants to be looking at a queue tick down as the rest of your friends/guild fight in an epic siege that determines the outcome of that CW.

 

Of course those complications could all be avoided -IF- it becomes more advantageous to have one VIP account instead of three standard accounts.


rSHxVEY.gif

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For a 20% or say 25% reduction in decay on a item?  It doesnt brake any economy It adds value to crafters   just as the player who takes the time and patience to level up a combat skill to do X amount of damage or  have X amount of protection....read again item still decays  but at longer rate. A craftier like this would be a bit more sought after.

 

I do understand what you are suggesting, Candesious. However, I would direct you to THIS wikipedia page. Business theory and planned obsolescence is a key component to any sort of continuous capital. A 20-25% decay reduction also mean a 20-25% reduction in the amount of items needed to be made. Less items needed to be made means less overall crafters who play. It ends up not being a profitable business model as people with nothing to do/with no needed job don't play games.

 

In the end we agree to disagree. This is the last I will post about item decay here.

Edited by Brokienheart

"Through the travail of ages, midst the pomp and toils of war, have I fought and strove and perished, countless times among the stars.
As if through a glass and darkly, the age old strife I see, when I fought in many guises and many names, but always me."

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Well it's good to know you're not a pretentious asshat and that you are just repeating something you read on the forums that you agree with. I apologize for confusing you with someone prone to flashes of independent thought.

I... I don't even know what your talking about anymore. I repeat it because it is relevant, a discussion formed around it. I never claimed to be the original person to figure this out.


Might I interest you in a low-interest mortgage?

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I'm not arguing about what's more valuable between VIP tickets and multiple accounts. I'm saying that VIP tickets are far from worthless.

 

On top of of getting 3 times as many Archetype passive training than basic accounts, VIP allows players to get store discounts, priority access to servers, head start with certain archetypes (if still applicable) and other cool benefits. Also VIP tickets are probably the easiest way to exchange real money for in-game resources.

 

Those are all things that players will not earn by solely purchasing multiple accounts, and we don't know yet what are the "other cool benefits".

You make a good point there. VIP still has value, you have me convinced.

 

edit: not enough to fix the glaring issue of 3-accounts value of course. But some value all the same.

Edited by TragicNumberOne

Might I interest you in a low-interest mortgage?

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The multiple accounts vs. VIP argument is even more reason to develop additional VIP features such as the web/smartphone app for tracking/training skills while not in game. 

 

I wouldn't put this ahead of core game features but I would include this as a very early "fluff" item. 

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I hope this clears up a lot of confusion/questions people had regarding vessels. The FAQ was very clear and straight forward. I am very excited for this system :)

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Mr. Timothy Eisenzimmer,

Please don't call nubs "chicks"!

That term is offensive to some females, even if you define it completely differently as a diminutive for newly hatched crows.

I don't think those "females" will be playing anyway. There is no Social Justice Warrior archetype in Crowfall. Edited by ZaphodBeeblebrox

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Maybe the want people to buy more boxes first, then they could make vip worth more later hoping to get more boxes to vip? It doesn't make sense for vip to be so gimped because Id assume it will find the game long term. Without it they have to rely on expansions and a shop like GW2. Vip and Alta were a big factor in the tier I purchased so I hope they help buff it up. Currently I would have just purchased 3 accounts that than the tier I did.


I role play a wordsmith.

 

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Mr. Timothy Eisenzimmer,

 Please don't call nubs "chicks"!

That term is offensive to some females, even if you define it completely differently as a diminutive for newly hatched crows.

 

Really?

 

Should people who play cards use a different word for Spades because it could be misinterpreted as referring to a particular race?

 

Jesus, give me a break. He even went the extra step to clarify his own meaning of the word.


aka honeybear

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