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TheOfficialSeraphim

Instead of leveling skills by time, why not by tasks completed?

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Might I suggest that instead, it levels by time played? Or Tasks completed? The reason for this is because if someone would want to grind this game, it would be almost impossible for them to catch up with the other players that have played the game longer. This is more of a mobile game leveling up system than anything. But, if you guys do it by tasks completed, it would be possible to play for a long period of time, and to completely jack up your character's power. So, if you're wanting to upgrade damage or combat, it levels up by the amount of HP you've taken away from other enemies. Or if you're trying to upgrade mining, it levels by the rarity of each ore that you mine. This may seem strikingly similar to Skyrim, because it is. But, I do like your idea of having to equip the skills that you want to upgrade, I just think it may be unfair if they only upgrade over time, because you're not playing, you're waiting.

 

Love the game, btw! Keep up the amazing work, but that's the only thing I will say!

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They don't want us to have to grind. Diminishing returns and shallow power curves are meant to take care of the lead players might have at first. Pretty much any progression system those that have played longer will get a head start and advantage, but as long as its not insurmountable new players can and will catch up.

 

Also there's already a current discussions thread about this, should go post I that one instead to keep it all more organized.

Edited by pang

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Why not play another mmo? By now the training over time is a core feature of Crowfall. It addresses a lot of imbalance issues caused by differences in played time. The whole point of Crowfall and the CWs is to avoid the Uncle Bob effect. If you allow people to train by grinding or by time played then new players will truly never be able to catch up.

 

Skill training within a specific archetype or skill will have a finite training time. Once you master it, you can't progress further. Therefor you can't ha e a lead forever.

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Time is resource as they explained in the new video. Instead of using skill points gained through task or grinding to fill the gauge to unlock a skill, Crowfall is giving more risk factor into choosing a skill. So before you invest in a skill you have to think about a particular play style you intend to play, one that you are good at. Having this risk factor is something that Crowfall intends to take on and I think it's a refreshing change. Investing time also means that while another person is training his branch, you can't be constantly expanding every branch so people will have vastly different skill set. Having more variety will be more fun in PvP since you need to overcome many different players with many different play styles.

 

I think by having the skills set up this way, it offers much more possibilities for the game and you won't be bored since you need to keep on expanding the branches.


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Pretty sure the skill system is like eve's which works pretty well. Say I wanna fly this ship really well. To master this ship completely I need to train 45 days. To get pretty decent at the ship I would need to train 25 days. The difference in stats between the person who trained 45 and 25 days is very minimal. I imagine this will be similar to crowfall. U can only get so good at a certain class and the returns aren't nearly as good at the higher levels of the class. If you have the system where you kill things to gain experience then it is waaaaay more rewarding to the player who has been playing for a long time. And it hurts people who are busy and can't always get online to play. They suffer the most from the system you have brought up. Their system is very different from most mmos but honestly it's a good system if I understand it correctly.

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Your system is not a catch up mecahnic nor does it make people equal. Still players who started earlier got more time to grind.

 

What you suggested (health taken away & rarity of the ore) is pretty much out of your hand. One day you mind find Tier 8 ores all over the place and the other day the highstest you find is tier 4. One day you feel really good and confident, mawing through players in the CW's. Another day you jsut lose over and over again.

 

I prefer the time base system we have right now. More game to play, less to grind. And also it is less inconsistent.


 

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The problem you're trying to solve is a deliberate design choice. ACE wants and has planned a system where you cannot gain power faster by grinding harder.


Official "Bad Person" of Crowfall

"I think 1/3rd of my postcount is telling people that we aren't turning into a PvE / casual / broad audience game." -

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The problem you're trying to solve is a deliberate design choice. ACE wants and has planned a system where you cannot gain power faster by grinding harder.

 

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“Letting your customers set your standards is a dangerous game, because the race to the bottom is pretty easy to win. Setting your own standards--and living up to them--is a better way to profit. Not to mention a better way to make your day worth all the effort you put into it." - Seth Godin

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A lot of people are so used to playing a single player game in an mmo world, just hanging out in the themepark that has no relevance after its completed. I for one am completely done with (never really got into) WoW. I haven't played EVE but am loving the idea of not having to kill 10 thousand rats to level up. All of that stuff is just fillers and distractions for what is actually fun in an mmo, PVP!

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This is a complete brainstorm, so be prepared for it to suck:

 

I do think they can overlay a small active training system on top of their fundamental passive training system.  Something like: you passively train and level that skill up: then while it is passively training, you can actively play and use to reach a cap (like, say: reaching the next passive trained level), but that does not continue compiling and gets overridden by passive upgrade.

 

For example,

You select passive training on combat principles and are going from level 5 to 6. While the passive training is going, if you actively use the skill you can achieve, in practice, level 6 (but no higher).  When the passive training hits 6, your active training is gone, but can reset for getting to level 7, if you stay with that skill.

 

(1) Going from level 5 to 6 passively,

(2) Actively playing, you obtain at maximum level 6 while playing,

(3) Passively hit level 6,

(4) Active training reset

 

If you switch what you are training, you lose the actively gained benefits.  That is, you are going from level 8 to 9 and get active training to level 9, but switch the passive skill, you lose the active training.

 

It's a small thing, but something that may appease some folks.

 

Edit: I guess you don't necessarily need to lose the active training if you change passive skill.

Edited by mctan

Mic MWH, Member of Mithril Warhammers since 2003,


Hammers High! http://www.mithrilwarhammers.com

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Might I suggest that instead, it levels by time played? Or Tasks completed? The reason for this is because if someone would want to grind this game, it would be almost impossible for them to catch up with the other players that have played the game longer. This is more of a mobile game leveling up system than anything. But, if you guys do it by tasks completed, it would be possible to play for a long period of time, and to completely jack up your character's power. So, if you're wanting to upgrade damage or combat, it levels up by the amount of HP you've taken away from other enemies. Or if you're trying to upgrade mining, it levels by the rarity of each ore that you mine. This may seem strikingly similar to Skyrim, because it is. But, I do like your idea of having to equip the skills that you want to upgrade, I just think it may be unfair if they only upgrade over time, because you're not playing, you're waiting.

 

Love the game, btw! Keep up the amazing work, but that's the only thing I will say!

I think its a myth that new players cant catch up with older players.

You get really fast skills to 100 maybe 2 days per skill. So after that your invest of time is much higher and your reward is much lower. 

If you invest 10 days in training an additional 5 percent to get 105 a new player will finish 5 skills to 100. 

 

That 5 percent are only finetuning but will not make the big difference in a char.

 

At least a new char is playable fast. But it takes long to master all skills. But there is no need to master it all. It depends on the personal Skill and playstile of each player to make the right choices. 

 

Bringing an Active System for players to train skills will bring a big unbalance to the game.

 

One Idea may be ok..

 

Whats about bringing a "SKILL BUFF" System.

If you kill a Monster  or a player you get a 5 minute Buff for 1 Percent more skillgain. This Buff can stack up to a maximum of 24 Hours.

So you need to kill 144 Monsters or players for that buff and can earn 24 Hours faster skill gain. After that it returns to normal. 

if you continue active playing you have always the buff active. If not it is in normal skill Rate.

Edited by belgerog

Bavarie Blue / Happy Tree Friends (HTF) and Pirates of Carribbean (POC)

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From watching the lastest video that explains the current skill system.  There's a moderate amount of diminishing returns for your time.  So as belgerog stated, it's faster to get the early ranks.

 

Also, not all skills apply to every situation.  So say one player has been focusing their Archetype skill training on the Knight for 2 months.  They'd probably be reasonably deep in that tree.  But if they then needed to play a Confessor, they'd be on almost equal footing with a brand new player.

 

I haven't had a chance to look at all of the details, and of course, those details will change dramatically, probably.  I can say that EvE's system is structured in such a way that a 2 year player can be taken down by a group of 5 one month old players in a large number of situations.  Unlike with say, WoW, where if you're 10 lvls over another player, they can't even dent you in every situation.

 

This skill system doesn't preclude such situations, but hopefully that's being taken into consideration.

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