Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
blazinzero

cloak and dagger moderation went sour?

Recommended Posts

For me it wasn't any sort of SSO thing for the forums or anything to do with moderation; it was simply that the game had moved from 'victoria's secret honeymoon' where everyone was wide-eyed about their fantasy of what Crowfall would be, to 'scratching butt in boxers' as the real work of hammering out a game started.

 

Like Doc, I've been down this street so many times I've laid some of the pavers in it... I've done game dev as a career for like two decades now, and really have no desire to eat someone else's dog food for 'fun' - so once ArtCraft dropped the design doc on us I reviewed it, noted that I was happy with it, and went on about my life.

 

In my humble-yet-very-well-educated-opinion, what really slowed down the forum here is the availability of information in other mediums. I don't really log in here very often, because all I need to know I pick up from streams of game testing or emails from ArtCraft. I don't really need to bathe in everyone's opinions here - so I don't.

 

And I'd put money on that being a similar story for a lot of people on this forum...


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

raeshlavik groks in fullness....

 

/bows, hand over fist

 

and on that Note...allow me to ruminate upon the Topic...

 

"went sour"

 

i think that is the nut of it all, the kernel that requires parsing, as it were...and it all revolves around expectations....most would think that as Alpha begins, systems are introduced, and without an NDA so there's plenty of streams and user experience to be shared and discussed, that this all would generate even moar discussion thatn all the useless speculation that was bandied about between Announcement and launch of Alpha...

 

i mean, cereally....moar content = LESS posting?

 

just makes no sense on the face of it....until you poke around and see that there are indeed pages upon pages of conversation happening about this Game...

 

it's just that it appears most of it is nto here...on the official Forums

 

and, imo, that's a damn shame....after all this is THE place for it, and should be the *home* for the entire Community, as opposed to it being scattered among various other sites

 

again, could just be me....but i am one for Community Building, as opposed to "management" .....to me, it is much moar crucial to build up a thriving Community than it is to manage a small segment of your prospective Player base

 

your mileage may vary...


FIQw0eP.png

let the Code build the World and it's Laws....let the Players build the rest...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

and, imo, that's a damn shame....after all this is THE place for it, and should be the *home* for the entire Community, as opposed to it being scattered among various other sites

 

What would you suggest as a solution to this shame?


IhhQKY6.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

raeshlavik groks in fullness....

 

/bows, hand over fist

 

and on that Note...allow me to ruminate upon the Topic...

 

"went sour"

 

i think that is the nut of it all, the kernel that requires parsing, as it were...and it all revolves around expectations....most would think that as Alpha begins, systems are introduced, and without an NDA so there's plenty of streams and user experience to be shared and discussed, that this all would generate even moar discussion thatn all the useless speculation that was bandied about between Announcement and launch of Alpha...

 

i mean, cereally....moar content = LESS posting?

 

just makes no sense on the face of it....until you poke around and see that there are indeed pages upon pages of conversation happening about this Game...

 

it's just that it appears most of it is nto here...on the official Forums

 

and, imo, that's a damn shame....after all this is THE place for it, and should be the *home* for the entire Community, as opposed to it being scattered among various other sites

 

again, could just be me....but i am one for Community Building, as opposed to "management" .....to me, it is much moar crucial to build up a thriving Community than it is to manage a small segment of your prospective Player base

 

your mileage may vary...

Just seems a bit contradictory to say you want the community to grow but yet you only want the community in one place.

 

From my experience its best when the community does spread out as it allows each niche to find its own voice instead of potentially being drowned out by all the white noise that can ensue.

 

Still though I stand by the point that I don't at all see how these forums are "dead". There are constant new topics and constructive and productive discussions about the current state of the game, changes that ACE makes, new systems they bring online with each new build etc. Seems to me that just maybe if some where to drop the baggage and move on they could see that and join in instead of trying to see only bad things.

Edited by pang

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The forms definitely aren't dead. Activity goes up with news releases obviously. With large content releases like Siege Perilous activity goes way up for a time.

 

There was definitely a time when the moderation here was super reactionary and, in my opinion, less than efficient. I haven't seen any of that lately, however.

 

Some of it wass just poor communication. A lot of it was manipulation of the moderators by clever, trolling posters using (abusing) the report button. A lot of things get lost in translation on internet forums. Intentions are misread. Feelings are hurt without any basis sometimes.

 

If the moderation practices stay the way they are now I think the Devs will get a ton of useful information without a whole lot of drama. Most of the bitter argument these days is actually about mechanics. I think that's very productive, even when two opposing views are fairly caustic in evaluation of the opposing view. So long as everyone stays on topic anyway.

Edited by coolwaters

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What would you suggest as a solution to this shame?

 

a very good Question, that also touches on the root cause of what i'm talking about...

 

so let's take your Question and add to it the Concern @pang raises about growing a Community within the realm of our Discussion...

 

and, after all...Discussion and Conversation are the Essence of what i'm trying to get at when i refer to Community building

 

so let's begin with the concerns pang raises....firstly..i never said that having outside Forums and websites was bad, or that they adversely impacted these Forums..i merely stated the obvious, that the activity level here has dropped since it's peak... can we agree on the basic objective facts as derived by the metrics?

 

ok then....then allow me to make a point....the outside sites are symptomatic of the decay in participation here on the official Forums in this instance...folks felt that they could not discuss and express themselves here...for whatever varied reasons, and thus shifted their attention to somewhere they felt more comfortable....is this reasonable to everyone?

 

ok..that being said we get to the next portion of our discussion...how does one fix it, and the unspoken bit....should anyone even try?

 

my Answer to the second part if ...yes, thus why i came back *here* and am typing right naow....i DO think it's important

 

THIS is the place the Devs look at, THIS is the place built solely as the official place FOR the Game, by those building the Game...and thus to me, has quite a bit of importance

 

ask yourself "why are Forums important?"

 

i see two big Reasons....Feedback and Community building

 

the first is obvious, as stated, if this is the place the Devs scope out, then this is the place they will take their Feedback from....yes?

 

as for the second, i've always thought that one of the largest factors in the health of any Game was it's Community...allow meh to elucidate with a bit of an example..

 

take the SB community....such a tight knit group that even after 8 years of the Game being closed, there are still fights over the two active emulators as well as the Meta arising form the in-game/Forum politics that continues to the present Moment in every way  (need i remind folks that it was a simple and mi9ld discussion in the SB forums about that Meta that got me fired in the first place?)

 

soOOOOooOOOOooooo...you ask "ok Doc, be that as it may...how do we fix it?"

 

good Question, but without any simple Answer....the long and short of it is that Trust is the Foundation of Community as well as a good relationship betwixt Devs and Players....and that begins with Respect that flows both ways....

 

and it DID flow like a River for a while....in both directions....up to a Point

 

that loss slowed things down tremendously....it can possibly be repaired, but it will take both effort and a kind of Forgiveness....

 

we'll see how it goes, eh?


FIQw0eP.png

let the Code build the World and it's Laws....let the Players build the rest...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's an average of sub 200 posts a day here. Quite a few days, Pann was the top poster just by posting testing threads. You can sit on a pile of poorly made socks and claim to be king, but it's still a pile of poorly made socks.

 

"there's activity"

 

Some of you would look at zero posts and still call it an eventful day with your "contributions".

 

White knights sit on a forums that was made stale by their blatant reporting and moderators who felt the need to be reactionary and not proactive. If Pann didn't micromanage the moderators, then Gordon micromanaged Pann. The White Knights (who are clever little trolls disguised as easily offended power bottoms) would report anyone they disagreed with, even if it was over something silly as using someone else's signature, avatar, or they would lose an argument.

 

The mods have to react or Pann gets in trouble. For a while, the SA/Goons would come here and get people pretty triggered while using their on off-site to do so. Some clowns used IRC to do so. The paywall hit and that activity cut down. Then, the remaining people who were either trolls or people who weren't armchair designers and loved pvp, got smacked around by a vague Code of Conduct and White Knights. I mean, one individual even decided to be a White Knight and be the positive poster they wanted. They banned him for mockery. (not in the code of conduct).

 

A lot of people went into the Crowfall slack where you could discuss moderation practices in real time. That resulted in either bandwagoning or being able to blow off steam. After that, the Angry Crows vs The Dregs thing happened, making both slack and off-site Crowfall kind of interesting for a while.

 

It all died out. The slack, the off-site forums, the official forums, etc. To say the entire lull can be blamed on the official forums can't be exactly right since the off-site areas are kind of stale as well. We thought we could say that when testing started, it'd pick back up. It has, but not in the capacity to which we thought it would be. The Dregs wiki hasn't been edited since September. The official wiki picked back up, but before that it had a 8 month hiatus.

 

Can we purely blame moderation? Ehhhh, probably not. We lost a good portion of activity after the kickstarter was launched. The hype train is gone. We'll never get back "the glory days" of the forums. And while fun, it was a lot of drama. The state of the forums is basically the kind of thing that those in power (Pann, Gordon, mods, white knights) wanted it to be. Mission accomplished?

Edited by headlight

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Majority of posts on the forum now are completely constructive feedback about testing or features they've announced. 

 

You can try to get hyperbolic and claim people would call zero posts eventful... but there aren't zero posts... there are tons of posts about testing feedback, recent announcements, etc...

 

Can't really deny that... Just gotta look at the post feed. 

 

As for doc gonzo, lol, just doesn't seem to be able to see things as they actually were and actually are.  No one cares about a handful of sb emulator players that want to pretend they are super important and critical to this game ever shipping, when they aren't.  Want to go prove SB emulator players are important?  Go dominate the tests and provide meaningful feedback.... Plenty of those SB players have the access level, they were some of the first to test, now they are gone...  Until you can actually help build the game, consistently provide constructive criticism, and prove you are actually competent at playing...  You aren't really actually relevant. 

 

On top of that we already saw what happened... a group of posters thought they were rebels, lambasted the moderation, and went and made their own forum for political strife... we saw how that turned out.

Edited by VIKINGNAIL

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

VikingNail is the biggest troll here and has had accounts banned. He spends his days being passive aggressive and leading the White knights in false positive posting. If you ever get him off the forum he will type 900 words a minute in full autistic glory.

 

Is being a virgin so hard that this what it takes to keep your ego up? You aren't doing a very good job. You've been a joke since day one, michaelflatey. Keep making new accounts to stay relevant.


You are so incredibly helpful, CYT. I don't know how I ever managed to do anything before we met. I was just bumbling my way through life, all lost-like. Thank you. My blessing cup runneth over.

SWrkfdj.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

VikingNail is the biggest troll here and has had accounts banned. He spends his days being passive aggressive and leading the White knights in false positive posting. If you ever get him off the forum he will type 900 words a minute in full autistic glory.

 

Is being a virgin so hard that this what it takes to keep your ego up? You aren't doing a very good job. You've been a joke since day one, michaelflatey. Keep making new accounts to stay relevant.

Hey friend, if you ever want to help contribute to the development of this game hop on into testing and we can play some games together.  I was actually there carrying you to your first hungerdome victory.  I am always looking out for you even when you are mean to me, and crowfall will be a better game even if it doesn't fall in line with how you pictured it and I hope you can come to terms with that and learn to appreciate and enjoy that someday when it launches!


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

fBHHCig.png

ref. https://www.google.ca/trends/explore#q=%22shroud%20of%20the%20avatar%22%2C%20%22crowfall%22%2C%20%22camelot%20unchained%22%2C%20%22gloria%20victis%22&date=1%2F2013%2042m&cmpt=q&tz=Etc%2FGMT%2B4

 

Based on the graph, it seems that we're pretty much following the trend of comparable indie projects, a huge peak during the Kickstarter, then the activity slowing down on normal days with a surge from time to time depending on the news and updates.

 

As for the forum posts:

- SotA has about 503,000 posts over 3 years, ~454 / day in average during that period

- CF has 267,000 posts over a little more than a year, ~557 / day '' ''

- GV has 76,000 posts since ~3 years (not sure if they changed forum meanwhile), ~75 / day '' ''

- CU most likely has comparable activity to SotA and CF, but since it's under NDA we'll know only later, presumably around ~400-550 / day '' ''

Edited by courant101

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

fBHHCig.png

ref. https://www.google.ca/trends/explore#q="shroud%20of%20the%20avatar"%2C%20"crowfall"%2C%20"camelot%20unchained"%2C%20"gloria%20victis"&date=1%2F2013%2042m&cmpt=q&tz=Etc%2FGMT%2B4

 

Based on the graph, it seems that we're pretty much following the trend of comparable indie projects, a huge peak during the Kickstarter, then the activity slowing down on normal days with a surge from time to time depending on the news and updates.

 

As for the forum posts:

- SotA has about 503,000 posts over 3 years, ~454 / day in average during that period

- CF has 267,000 posts over a little more than a year, ~557 / day '' ''

- GV has 76,000 posts since ~3 years (not sure if they changed forum meanwhile), ~75 / day '' ''

- CU most likely has comparable activity to SotA and CF, but since it's under NDA we'll know only later, presumably around ~400-550 / day '' ''

Careful man. You're going to endanger the worldview of some folks if you tell them the sky is not falling.

 

Actual evidence is hard to argue with though. At least it's hard for someone to argue with using only histrionics and empirical claims.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

VikingNail is the biggest troll here and has had accounts banned. He spends his days being passive aggressive and leading the White knights in false positive posting. If you ever get him off the forum he will type 900 words a minute in full autistic glory.

Is being a virgin so hard that this what it takes to keep your ego up? You aren't doing a very good job. You've been a joke since day one, michaelflatey. Keep making new accounts to stay relevant.

 

Whoa whoa whoa! Dont nobody say nothin bad about my leather pant wearing, tapdancing, ladies man Michael Flatley, Feet of Flames is dope!


MOkvLlm.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
<snip>

 

I see I contaged you with the google trend disease. :P

 

Though you have averaged the total number of posts, while you should have compared the relative amount of posts and how much they have decreased (not sure you can with the info you have). CF had a huge popularity in the first 6 months, which wasn't of course mirrored by google since nobody needed to google it, and I bet the hype would have been a bit higher without the moderation/forumers fights.

Edited by Fenris DDevil

y9tj8G5.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

fBHHCig.png

ref. https://www.google.ca/trends/explore#q=%22shroud%20of%20the%20avatar%22%2C%20%22crowfall%22%2C%20%22camelot%20unchained%22%2C%20%22gloria%20victis%22&date=1%2F2013%2042m&cmpt=q&tz=Etc%2FGMT%2B4

 

Based on the graph, it seems that we're pretty much following the trend of comparable indie projects, a huge peak during the Kickstarter, then the activity slowing down on normal days with a surge from time to time depending on the news and updates.

 

As for the forum posts:

- SotA has about 503,000 posts over 3 years, ~454 / day in average during that period

- CF has 267,000 posts over a little more than a year, ~557 / day '' ''

- GV has 76,000 posts since ~3 years (not sure if they changed forum meanwhile), ~75 / day '' ''

- CU most likely has comparable activity to SotA and CF, but since it's under NDA we'll know only later, presumably around ~400-550 / day '' ''

Courant coming in with the hard numbers... It's great when the numbers back up what is so clearly obvious on the forums themselves... The forums aren't dead... people still post, they still give feedback... it just doesn't have as much mindless spam as before.  If that mindless spam was so important and sought after by gaming communities then spinoff forums and hangouts wouldn't have dried up so quickly. 


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I see I contaged you with the google trend disease. :P

 

Though you have averaged the total number of posts, while you should have compared the relative amount of posts and how much they have decreased (not sure you can with the info you have). CF had a huge popularity in the first 6 months, which wasn't of course mirrored by google since nobody needed to google it, and I bet the hype would have been a bit higher without the moderation/forumers fights.

 

Yea that would have been more accurate that way, but as you mention also a lot more difficult to find the old stats for SotA and CU.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...