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blazinzero

cloak and dagger moderation went sour?

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Forums have a lot of feedback about all the active tests they are holding... game isn't dead... new modules in the works, game being built, things are moving forward. 

 

The conversation was about the forums being dead, not the game. Congrats on 3k posts when you get there. Looks like you're going for quantity over quality lately.

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Yea the forums aren't dead... lots of active feedback for a game that is chugging along...  I think anyone that wants to claim the forum is dead is just kind of being willfully ignorant to the fact that it gets spammed with feedback posts for each test.

Edited by VIKINGNAIL

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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You guys just like pictures don't you? Taking those average posts over the entire length of a project when the argument is that every thing has been dead for the last six months is hardly fair.

 

There's most likely a correlation between the overall interest for the different projects (as shown on the graph) and the activity on the forums. It would take some time to compile the information and prove it though, something I'm not willing to do. But as I'm not the one who makes the claim, it's fine I guess.

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I'd say if you believe that you might have a future in politics. #spindoctor

 

 

and also still lol at posters still saying these forums are dead, plenty of activity, plenty of good discussion going on. Quite pouting and stumping ones feet for a second and take a look.

Courant101 here is your typical Canadian. don't rock boats. Don't ever argue. Don't cause no waves. 

 

He'd be a great middle of the road not do poorly made socks moderate politician. 


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Online communities have learned that too much moderation is better than too little pretty much every single time. In fact theres really no such thing as an over-moderated professional online community. I'm really glad crowfall.com learned it as well.

 

On the contrary: going lax in enforcement will pretty much lead to abuse.

This is well documented social behaviour: clamping down on minor transgressions results in far fewer major problems. Too much leniency results in things spiralling out of control.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_windows_theory

 

It took Reddit too many years to learn what even Somethingawful.com(!) knew from day 1; Zero tolerance for transgressions guarantees a healthy community.

 

This turned into a discussion about activity.

*Activity* is dependent on content. Right now theres not a lot of content. Hence: quiet forums. 

Please note: Thats not a health measurement - that's a noise measurement.

 

When the posts are made they are courteous and respectful and not prone to rants and abuse <---- THAT'S a health measurement. A good one.

Edited by Deloria

www.CrowfallRP.com


Disclaimer: My RP with you might become a public story: https://soundcloud.com/shiv-mahon

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Online communities have learned that too much moderation is better than too little pretty much every single time. In fact theres really no such thing as an over-moderated professional online community. I'm really glad crowfall.com learned it as well.

 

On the contrary: going lax in enforcement will pretty much lead to abuse.

This is well documented social behaviour: clamping down on minor transgressions results in far fewer major problems. Too much leniency results in things spiralling out of control.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_windows_theory

 

It took Reddit too many years to learn what even Somethingawful.com(!) knew from day 1; Zero tolerance for transgressions guarantees a healthy community.

 

This turned into a discussion about activity.

*Activity* is dependent on content. Right now theres not a lot of content. Hence: quiet forums. 

Please note: Thats not a health measurement - that's a noise measurement.

 

When the posts are made they are courteous and respectful and not prone to rants and abuse <---- THAT'S a health measurement. A good one.

What ACE did with  cleaning the forums up was great.  You look at things in the post feed now and it's all about game related questions, and feedback.

 

The only thing you got wrong is about somethingawful knowing from day 1.  SA used to be very different in the early 2000s :)


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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Overall, the conversation about the connections between “quality of life” indicators and crime trends has taken on such a life of its own over the decades that it may hardly matter that the authors of the broken windows theory themselves have acknowledged that it was just that — a theory. Harcourt and Ludwig’s 2006 article in the Law Review cites a New York Times interview from two years earlier, when James Q. Wilson was asked about what empirical data supported their idea, and he answered that there was none. ‘’I still to this day do not know if improving order will or will not reduce crime,’’ Wilson said in 2004. ‘’People have not understood that this was a speculation.’’

https://psmag.com/breaking-down-the-broken-windows-theory-bbe9c06ae2a2#.crka56xm8

 

Interesting theory. Sounds self-important and borderline fascist to me though. Also ensures that petty criminals (and non-criminals) continue to be criminals and progress in their crimes. Especially the poor.

 

Not a neighborhood I'd like to live in. Then again, I can't stand HoAs.

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There's most likely a correlation between the overall interest for the different projects (as shown on the graph) and the activity on the forums. It would take some time to compile the information and prove it though, something I'm not willing to do. But as I'm not the one who makes the claim, it's fine I guess.

Being completely rational, numbers show that showing numbers increases the believability of a claim even though what your showed has completely inaccurate comparisons of different games of different popularity within different time frames and reference.

 

Numbers only serve observant reasoners, in the end even accurate evidence is deceptive.


a52d4a0d-044f-44ff-8a10-ccc31bfa2d87.jpg          Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes... Than if they're upset, they'll be a mile away, and barefoot :P

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Online communities have learned that too much moderation is better than too little pretty much every single time. In fact theres really no such thing as an over-moderated professional online community.

 

As someone who has run a few fairly large online communities, and managed a degree in behavioral psychology, I have to agree 100%.

 

The reason this is the case is because there are no real social mores on the Internet; general anonymity leads to a steady decline in accountability - and as the numbers of unaccountable people rise the opportunity to 'act out' without repercussion also rises, eventually stimulating a mob mentality where your forums are looted and set on fire...

 

This was summed up beautifully by John Gabriel of "Penny Arcade"

 

When active moderation enforces social mores, and in-turn creates a sense of the rule of law, the signal to noise ratio increases because people spend more time focused on the community markers over ego-based attack/defense and/or territorial chest beating.

 

Granted, this will annoy anyone who is expecting that their 'swagger' will grant them easy popularity in the uncontrolled dregs of forum life, and these folks will tend to group up against the establishment - fist raised and bullhorn set to maximum - any time they get moderated, because that's what they do either way.

 

TL;DR - Moderation decreases unconstructive posting, which annoys unconstructive posters.


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Yeah.. Several Months later and forums still not dead.

Funny thing... i'm new here and i find it amazing that pretty much every post/reply is at least somewhat constructive. Not sure how it was 1 year ago though.

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Funny thing... i'm new here and i find it amazing that pretty much every post/reply is at least somewhat constructive. Not sure how it was 1 year ago though.

 

It's always been fairly constructive. The spiritual predecessor to Crowfall, Shadowbane, had a lot of what we called 'forumbane' activities; lots of inter-guild politics and back-stabbing on the forums. But they've always been pretty self-moderating and things stayed at a fairly even keel - so even the most vitriol-fueled poster tended to be somewhat relevant.

 

The general problem seems to have arisen when the Crowfall forums turned from a loose 'neat idea' structure to a more thought-out 'fully funded game with paying clients' structure. Which is right about the time ACE hired in a community manager and set the forums so that only people who put money where their mouth is could have an opinion on the development of the game. This changed the tone of the forums a bit, and prompted some doom and gloom - which is where this thread came from.

 

There were a few specific problems as well, but only the people directly involved in those can really talk to those points.

 

At least, this is how I saw it go down. YMMV


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Several months later, the forums still hasn't recovered in activity. Proof is in the pudding. You can argue quality over quantity but content/no content, testing/no testing -- the forums won't recover in the amount of activity it had at this same time last year. Even slack this time last year had more activity than the discord with 3x the amount of "registered users" discord has now. I've seen how over-moderated that chat is compared to very little (saying that for VN's benefit) moderation the Crowfall slack was.

 

In my opinion, all this over-moderation on the internet just leads to weakness. IRC and similar methods of communications in the beginning of the internet was very harsh. Not only did people disagree with you, they could take control of your entire chat room if they felt malicious enough. That's if your chat room didn't get taken over for no reason at all and/or your client didn't get disconnected by script kiddies or hackers. There was no such word as "troll" in the early 2000s -- because that was just common internet behavior.

 

Now, people are so dependent on safe spaces, they need to be saved from harsh words by someone else because their own brains can't protect them from mean people. It's like in 5 years ISIS is just going to be a bunch of people sending mean comments because that will kill more americans than terrorist attacks.

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I`ve other issues @Headlight related to testing and login recently. So I`m waiting for open beta to actually test the game like the BF1 game with Dice, because it`ll be easier when ACE have 24/7 server to access it. A warfare game like Crowfall starts with some basic concepts on the forum - and how it`s managed by the company, but also related to trust about the game design. What happen Xemise was instant banned early in 2015 for RoC, and others I am sure in the same guild like Bardiel. Primal, yes he was banned too, and not for RoC, but for some other nonsense, and he was one of the few entertaining posters here.

 

I know some guys who invested a lot of $ into the project based on marketing `play to crush` warfare game in the KGB guild, but with a hello kitty online RoC.. And the truth is we`re looking more over to Conan Exile recently, and that is not a good omen at all for ACE. My point is it`s just small amount of $ compare to the big picture related to overall game development budget - so I feel the whole pay-wall forum access is unnecessary. 

 

What happen in Ultima Online after x amount of players were murdered and became too hardcore for crafters and miners in 97? Instant PvE servers and the community was divided to Trammel = Eternal Kingdoms, yeah sure it looks like an in-game insurance policy - just in case the game get too hardcore with castle destruction and warfare in Crowfall. Well, that`s what kind of trust I`m thinking about here hardcore game features, and what the guild Sinister was concerned about as well.. ..not who had sex with someones wife at the last christmas party with the job. ;)  

Edited by mythx

MQfHl7c.png

Crowfall Game Client: https://www.crowfall.com/en/client/

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