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Pann

A child born of two mothers - Official discussion thread

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He brings up an interesting point about the big drawback to a time based leveling system - there's no way to catch up to Vets if you start the game as a new player some time after launch. 

 

I'm not sure what means Eve took to combat this because I haven't followed the game in some time. 

 

Since Crowfall will have a cash shop - maybe some kind of item that lets you get a "boost" of initial skill points to allocate? Say for example once the game hits the 1 year from "release" anniversary the cash shop offers an item that would give you 3 months worth of skill points to allocate to a FRESH account? Something to help a few player not feel left in the dust as well as a way for ACE to generate additional revenue.

 

I always loved EVE's concepts but there were 2 things that turned me off to the game.

 

The first was the combat was incredibly boring. Too much "Star Trek" and not enough "Star Wars" is what I always said. It was like being the captain of the enterprise instead of Luke Skywalker Dog Fighting in an X-Wing. I need some level of "twitch" skill to my combat or it's just plain boring.

 

The second thing was that I didn't pick up on the game at release and with the seemingly linear time based leveling system I figured I could never catch up or compete with veteran players. 

 

Crowfall won't have the combat issue that EVE has and hopefully they find a way to combat the "falling behind" issue for new players. 

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...

 

Crowfall won't have the combat issue that EVE has and hopefully they find a way to combat the "falling behind" issue for new players. 

 

Well like been discussed in the other threads about this I think a few things will be in that will help with this. Shallow power curves and diminishing returns that creates sort of soft caps in the progression of general skills and archetype trees. Basically the farther you progress the slower it goes which allows new players to catch up and depending on path's chosen pull even. Never played Eve but I don't think Crowfalls skill progression will be quite as linear a I've heard they were in that game. A veteran player might have more skills learned sure but it doesn't mean he'll have insurmountable character power.

Edited by pang

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@Blazzen

 

EVE had a serious new player retention problem that they only really dealt with head on in the last 3 or 4 years, by speeding up skill gain, lowering requirements, and buffing lower tier ships.

 

Interestingly, EVE is just introducing something akin to what you're suggesting. Vets can now extract excess skill points and sell them to noobs with some transaction fees.

 

The line in EVE has always been a noob can specialize in one ship first and be as good as a vet. It's somewhat true and also a complete lie. The noob needs 12 to 24 months of training time to master all the support skills to make the statement true. By then he's either quit or isn't a noob.

 

IF Crowfall has a shallow time curve to max out an Archtype it won't be quite as bad as EVE.

Edited by angelmar

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Thanks Pann for posting and thanks everyone for giving it a look, I'm anxious to see if I get...pecked, at.  :D I can't help it, I love crow/bird references. (sees something shiny and flies off)


I role play a wordsmith.

 

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This update is no update at all...
Sup with that? 

 

Have you guys made a deal with MMORPG? One where they write an article about Crowfall.. which serves the game to create a hype (advertizing it to MMO players) while at the same time bringing Crowfall players to the MMORPG site? A mutually beneficial partnership...

If so.. in the future.. please.. more interviews! I rather know what ACE has to say than BOB, the Camelot Unchained Geek! (CU look very promissing btw..)

 

*Drops the mic... walks away*

 

PS: Im not against creating a hype for crowfall.. but it's tuesday.. which means our last real updat was on thursday.. which means Im kindda craving REAL updates.. thats all.. better leave these opinion pieces to a thursday... dont you agree?

Edited by PhatPingu

Lf6MJUL.png

http://www.legend-gaming.net

Pingu - Member

---------------------------"Winter is coming"---------------------------

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This update is no update at all...

Sup with that? 

 

Have you guys made a deal with MMORPG? One where they write an article about Crowfall.. which serves the game to create a hype (advertizing it to MMO players) while at the same time bringing Crowfall players to the MMORPG site? A mutually beneficial partnership...

 

If so.. in the future.. please.. more interviews! I rather know what ACE has to say than BOB, the Camelot Unchained Geek! (CU look very promissing btw..)

 

*Drops the mic... walks away*

 

PS: Im not against creating a hype for crowfall.. but it's tuesday.. which means our last real updat was on thursday.. which means Im kindda craving REAL updates.. thats all.. better leave these opinion pieces to a thursday... dont you agree?

 

*Higher by Creed blasts of the sound system as Tierless walks out of the back to a mixed reaction from the crowd, maybe its his mink coat, maybe its beard envy or maybe its the fact that he is wearing sunglasses-inside. He picks up mic and wipes it off with the sleeve of his mink coat before bringing it to his smiling face*

 

I was going to answer your questions but you walked ran away. :D

 

I guess I'll just talk to myself as usual. Why should anyone listen to me? They shouldn't if they don't want to, I wouldn't listen to me but I cant seem to get my voice out of my head :(

 

No deal, I say what I want! Does it help both MMO and CF? I'd guess yes. Has anyone at MMO or ACE told me what to say or how to say it? No. If I don't like or agree with something I'll mention it like I did my concerns with the skill system. I don't consider my stuff hype, just an opinion from a bitter old MMO vet that loves PVP sandboxes and wants to share that love with others in hopes they too can appreciate my favorite niche then join me in asking the MMO genre for what I believe so many of us want-virtual worlds to live and fight in, not "games" to "play" in. (whew that was a long sentence, some "writer"-learn to english)

 

At this time the CF column is scheduled to drop Tuesdays. It might bounce a round a bit but that isn't something I nor ACE control-well I guess I could control it by missing my deadline but then I would lose the column and get a case of the sads. ;)

 

And thats the bottom line, if ya smelllllalalalallalahhhh, what the Timothy...is writin! Now hit my music! 

 

*Higher by Creed blasts again as Tierless drops the mic and flies from the ring to the back-hey its RP-if I said he flew he flew*  :) 

Edited by tierless

I role play a wordsmith.

 

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Have you guys made a deal with MMORPG? One where they write an article about Crowfall.. which serves the game to create a hype (advertizing it to MMO players) while at the same time bringing Crowfall players to the MMORPG site? A mutually beneficial partnership...

 

QkN1XlC.jpg

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After reviewing the Crowspiracy tests and looking at the evidence I lean false but since it involves the espionage-heavy PVP MMORPG genre that pulls us back to "plausible". Anything is possible right? Re-reading the column I'm either a terrible hypster (not to be confused with hipster-which despite my beard, hair, and thick black glasses I am not-then again that is exactly what all hipsters would say isn't it) or my MMO Cabal "string masters" are bad at their jobs.

 

 

Plausible+sign.jpg


I role play a wordsmith.

 

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I'm either a terrible hypster or my MMO Cabal "string masters" are bad at their jobs.

Just read your CU stuff out of curiosity. Your CU article on "Hardcore PVP" was pure hype and lacked any real research or analysis. You talk about asset and building destruction likes its something novel to CU, whereas its been part of EVE and Shadowbane for over a decade.

 

Maybe the CU crowd are a less discerning audience.

Edited by angelmar

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Just read your CU stuff out of curiosity. Your CU article on "Hardcore PVP" was pure hype and lacked any real research or analysis. You talk about asset and building destruction likes its something novel to CU, whereas its been part of EVE and Shadowbane for over a decade.

 

Maybe the CU crowd are a less discerning audience.

 

Just a minute, I never said anything about research or analysis! I leave that to smart people. :D I'm a fan that gets to write about the games he loves, its hard not to be overly excited at times-because I AM! I think most MMORPG writers are fans first. I mean, the money and fame isn't in our tiny niche, hell being PVP I'm a niche in a niche! I like to think most of us stick in this genre because like all of us here, we love it, we are fans of it.

 

I was excited to take on this column because I knew it would be challenged by the community. People here tend to ask questions and be skeptical, and I completely agree. Especially after how many times PVPers have been promised things in the past then ended up being "tacked on" at the last second. Your right, CU and CF do have very different communities, RVR and PVP are quite different in practice and players with some overlap in between. Neither is better or worse, both have their strengths and weaknesses. I'd say the type of community fits each game pretty well. Realm wide pride vs Individual/Guild pride. Personally I came from games like Darkfall and it took me a long time to understand the realm pride concept. In CF I plan to spend most of my time getting owned by better pvpers in the Dregs. 

 

That CU column was based on mechanics planned for CU. I did note some consequences relied on personal perspective but all of the mechanics and consequences of them came from deep analyzation (also know as me drinking by myself and daydreaming about burning down enemies castles). The type of destruction in EVE and SB doesn't match what I've seen CSE working on (not a secret they put out a tweet or vine showing early work on it). EQN/L gave us a taste. CF has some as well. How much? I haven't seen enough since the KS to be able to say much about it yet. If I see some I won't hide my excitement. I've been dreaming about this stuff coming to MMOs for 12 years! ;)

 

I'm genuinely very excited for CU and CF as well as the wider MMO genre, at times that will skew me. I'm also pretty optimistic about CU and CF, which also skews me. The idea that writers are 100% unbias is simply impossible. Until everything is written by robots or humans learn to be like Vulcans we will have bias-even if its unconscious. It's part of being human. I try to control it but I won't control my excitement. I ask critical questions and try to give critical feedback. The world isn't black and white and neither is my commentary. I can be excited about an aspect of something but also skeptical, that doesn't mean I need to be negative. I also consider where we are in development. Can I really get too deep or too affirmative about anything in either game when most things can/will change a hundred times before launch? Does it make sense to get upset about something when it's not even locked down yet? I suppose it depends on the mechanic in question. Once things begin to lock in place I'll be getting more critical and I can't wait! Until then, unless something seems like an absolutely terrible idea I'll try to stay open minded and see the pros and cons without the rage.

 

We spent ages being ignored and here we sit on the brink of a PVP resurgence! I went from nearly walking away from the genre to coming back to it with an energy I haven't felt in years! I don't play games I play MMORPGs and for the first time since the theme park era began I have hope for sandbox PVP games. It's hard for me not to be excited! Thanks for the read even if it wasn't something you enjoyed. Thanks for the feedback too. 


I role play a wordsmith.

 

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*Higher by Creed blasts of the sound system as Tierless walks out of the back to a mixed reaction from the crowd, maybe its his mink coat, maybe its beard envy or maybe its the fact that he is wearing sunglasses-inside. He picks up mic and wipes it off with the sleeve of his mink coat before bringing it to his smiling face*

 

I was going to answer your questions but you walked ran away. :D

 

I guess I'll just talk to myself as usual. Why should anyone listen to me? They shouldn't if they don't want to, I wouldn't listen to me but I cant seem to get my voice out of my head :(

 

No deal, I say what I want! Does it help both MMO and CF? I'd guess yes. Has anyone at MMO or ACE told me what to say or how to say it? No. If I don't like or agree with something I'll mention it like I did my concerns with the skill system. I don't consider my stuff hype, just an opinion from a bitter old MMO vet that loves PVP sandboxes and wants to share that love with others in hopes they too can appreciate my favorite niche then join me in asking the MMO genre for what I believe so many of us want-virtual worlds to live and fight in, not "games" to "play" in. (whew that was a long sentence, some "writer"-learn to english)

 

At this time the CF column is scheduled to drop Tuesdays. It might bounce a round a bit but that isn't something I nor ACE control-well I guess I could control it by missing my deadline but then I would lose the column and get a case of the sads. ;)

 

And thats the bottom line, if ya smelllllalalalallalahhhh, what the Timothy...is writin! Now hit my music! 

 

*Higher by Creed blasts again as Tierless drops the mic and flies from the ring to the back-hey its RP-if I said he flew he flew*  :) 

 

*Looking from afar wishing he had thought about the sunglasses idea, he stands away from the crows' sight pointing fingers and mumbling something about no wheel chair... * (Timmey???)

 

-I liked your piece.. But it's a known fact that when ACE has nothing to update us with.. they dish out opinion articles.. which I like.. but I WANTS NEWS.. and I WANTS WHAT I WANTS!

 

*Runs to the stage, slaps the mic off Raven's hand and then retires to the shadows.. perhaps for good this time...*

Edited by PhatPingu

Lf6MJUL.png

http://www.legend-gaming.net

Pingu - Member

---------------------------"Winter is coming"---------------------------

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While the articles I linked to yesterday were good articles, I get what Pingu is saying and I believe an explanation is in order. 

 

Our web updates are supposed to happen on Tuesdays and Thursdays for game related news with occasional Founders' Updates on Wednesdays. The content is planned out many weeks in advance; Todd, Blair, Melissa and I meet the last week of the month to plan for the next month (and sometimes even into the month after that). Here's Tapp posing next to those calendars. Each PostIt strip is an update topic.  

 

webschedule.jpg

 

Hold that thought -- I have to tackle an unexpected thing but I'll be back to finish this post ASAP... 


Valerie "Pann" Massey, Director of Community
 

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Hurm, sounds like a thing just got tackled. 

 

Dang, you guys are impressively organized! I just put up a list of game topics on a dart board, close my eyes, spin in a circle and...well you get the idea.

 

Much respect /bow

 

I do have one issue, tell that guy two thumbs up is a bit too much, I prefer one thumbs up, and one thumbs sideways just to keep things from getting carried away.
;)

Edited by tierless

I role play a wordsmith.

 

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And... I'm back. Sorry about that. 

 

But today's situation is a perfect of example of how even with careful planning, sometimes we have to pivot unexpectedly. Wednesdays are Founders' Updates days, but sometimes (like today) JTC and GW are swamped with other business and we either don't do one or I jump in and do it myself. 

 

When you see a day like yesterday where our big news days doesn't look big news, we know you're not going to be happy about it -- and not making you happy seriously does make us unhappy, too. It's not as drastic as biting the hand that feeds you, but more like dumping cold water on the hand that feeds you, which is equally uncool. So please know that when it happens, it can't be helped. 

 

That's not to say that Tim and Red didn't write good stuff; we would have linked to those articles regardless. But our preferred MO in linking to things as the meat of a news update is when it's something like the exclusive Skills video on MMORPG last week or the thing we're doing with Massively tomorrow. Putting content together by ourselves can be difficult, and it gets tricksier when their are more people involved and we're answering follow-up questions, coordinating publishing schedules, etc.

 

TL;DR: We know you don't like small news updates and we're sorry.  


Valerie "Pann" Massey, Director of Community
 

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Things happen, we get it. However, it would be nice to get a post or something so us fan boys don't spend all day clicking refresh. You kinda spoiled us after all ;)

Edited by dreaden

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I think I know what you are saying, write with a bigger font size next time. No problem. ;)

 

Whats a MassivelyOP? I've never heard of such a thing, nope, not this guy. Never been there. I certainly don't love reading Bree's awesome work (assuming someone at whatever MOP is-is named Bree) and I wouldn't have helped fund them...wait a sec..."big things"...this is because their name is "Massive" isn't it! CONSPIRACY EXPOSED! I knew it!

 

Ok serious here, love MMO and love MOP. Like I said our niche is too small of a town for us to break one another down. Better to help one another rise up. Leave the PVP to the games, where I'm more than happy to burn someone's castle down! YAR!


I role play a wordsmith.

 

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@Blazzen

 

EVE had a serious new player retention problem that they only really dealt with head on in the last 3 or 4 years, by speeding up skill gain, lowering requirements, and buffing lower tier ships.

 

Interestingly, EVE is just introducing something akin to what you're suggesting. Vets can now extract excess skill points and sell them to noobs with some transaction fees.

 

The line in EVE has always been a noob can specialize in one ship first and be as good as a vet. It's somewhat true and also a complete lie. The noob needs 12 to 24 months of training time to master all the support skills to make the statement true. By then he's either quit or isn't a noob.

 

IF Crowfall has a shallow time curve to max out an Archtype it won't be quite as bad as EVE.

That's something the devs should at least consider. That or a skill cap.

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