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My opinion on the Knight so far.


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I posted this in the feedback alpha testing forum. I figured I'd post it here to see if anybody wanted to give me some insights on my idea's and concerns. 

I've been playing Knight for a good while now and thought I'd give some feedback.

Overall I love the archetype. I've never been the type of person to play a tank class/archetype in any MMO. I find this class pretty refreshing as it’s easy to pick up and play from the get go, but also requires some mastery and strategic thinking to maximize its usefulness.


Shield Lunge - I like this ability, however it doesn't always seem to execute the stun. At the end of the charge sometimes the player I'm charging ends up a few yards ahead of me after I've executed the stun mechanic (let off the charge button). I'm not sure if this is intended and the other player is doing something to accomplish then, but from my point of view it seems buggy. I'd like to hear if this is intended or not. 

Shield Slam - It took me forever to even figure out how this worked. I wasn't aware that you could hold down the button since it does have an instant cast ability. I'm not sure if you have tool tips and I'm just not seeing them, but they would be nice. Also I think the description of the ability needs to be redone to make it absolutely clear how this mechanic works. I was always looking for some type of buff bar to tell me how much my shield was charged (silly I know). I'm probably a dummy for not figuring it out earlier, but in the hunger dome you don't have time to sit there and read and mess with things if you are actively trying to get the objectives (gear) to win the game. I'm a very experience MMO player, yet I find it baffling that it took me until today to figure out how this worked. I even had fellow players explain it to me and that didn’t work. If someone would have simply said “hold the damn button down”, that would have sufficed.

Block - Pretty standard. One improvement I'd like to suggest is if I'm executing a block it gives me an advantage to push most of the classes backwards if I decide to walk forwards. This would help me protect my group better. Maybe it wouldn't work against a legionnaire since he is big, but it would be nice to actually push a confessor back when they are doing an AOE to protect my group. I feel that as a tank it is my responsibility to mitigate as much damage as I can to my fellow players and I think it is reasonable that you can push someone back with a shield as that is a real life tactic in combat. If players think this type of mechanic is too overpowered, then maybe you increase the stamina drain by 1.5 to 2, maybe you can toss a mana drain in there as well. This is probably my biggest single “want” for this class.

Also I know that we can reflect damage back to casters. I would like to see something where if a confessor casts flamethrower and I block it while standing right in front of it that it blows back on to the confessor 100 percent of the time if I'm standing face to face. Maybe reduce the damage to 50 percent if I'm a couple of yards away, and then no damage if I'm more than half way past the spells range. (Hope that makes sense). If I’m standing face to face with a confessor, their flame shouldn’t even get a chance to fan out, because I’m blocking it at its base at its thinnest point. I feel like this type of mechanic would give me the opportunity to take an even more strategic approach if a confessor is trying to AOE my group down, and it would also make the confessor be more careful when they use that ability. When I'm always designing games in my head and thinking of specific abilities and I always want to take that one ability and put it up against all the defensive abilities available to all the archetypes and pick which ones could reasonably encounter it in a real scenario. So I'm probably a programmer’s worst nightmare ;)

Shield Spin - Pretty simple mechanic. Wish it had a 2nd combo tree where I could knock someone back 5 yards. Might be too much utility for the Knight though, and I don't know what you have planned for abilities beyond the basic ones.

Onslaught - Love these abilities, but when the combo screen comes up it needs more information. Such as when I press 4, I then get the option for Brutal Strike or Twin Assault. I want something that tells me one of them is a damage ability and one of them is a bleed ability. Maybe you can just put the words "bleed" in small letters right under twin assault. Or you can change the icon where it has a blood drip and use that drop of blood as the universal icon for all bleeds. Green and Purple swords don't really give me much information about the ability itself. The same goes for the B line AOE that does a bleed, use a universal graphic for the bleed, and also a universal graphic for AOE. (I'll elaborate at the end why I think this is important)

Of Nobel Blood - Where to start with this ability. I'll tell you I don't probably use this as much as I should, and I know for a fact other knights also gloss over this ability. It's kind of a boring ability and sometimes it turns into an afterthought for me. I literally have to force myself to use it. You are relying on RNG to time it perfectly to utilize the buff as well as the damage mechanic. I can run around and try to utilize the damage at the end of the buff, however at that point my other skills seem way more appealing to use after I cast this buff, and it’s sometimes forgotten about. Maybe that is a good thing that will separate the good knights from the great knights. But the counter argument to that is if enough players aren't using it, they either find it boring or cumbersome, or maybe both. It might end up as a bloat skill later on down the line if something isn't done. As a player sometimes I want to visually SEE something. Maybe when I cast this I hold my shield up for the duration but I move and attack at normal speed. Show me how much damage it is mitigating with flying text and then show me in different colored text how much damage this ability did to however many targets. Sometimes you need to emphasize that something is an awesome ability by showing you what it can do. I think the previous statement can be applied to a lot of abilities across the board for all archetypes.

Chain Attack – I think we all know there’s a lot of issues with this ability and how buggy it can be. It often pulls targets back to me then past me and they end up behind me, essentially putting me right back where I started. I’ve also been able to chain pull people off the top of the keep on the outer wall while I’m on the ground, and I find that kind of ridiculous. I don’t know if that type of range is intended or not. It would be nice if there was a way I could range check before I cast the ability, something like the cross hair is red if I’m out of range. I’m not even sure what the range and while I’m sure its static in theory, in practice it varies a lot due to how buggy it is. I don’t know what I have as far as suggestions. Maybe reduce the cool down but require pin point accuracy. Also I don’t see why we shouldn’t be able to pull an ally to us as well. If you can pull an enemy player than you should be able to pull an ally, realistically speaking. Also if you pull an ally, maybe they can get some type of defensive buff. I was thinking about a very small heal, but that doesn’t seem very “knight’ish” to me. I feel like my idea would require more skill, and add more strategy on when to exactly use our chain pull. Maybe we don’t want to waste it on that confessor that is running away. Lastly, the responsiveness of the ability is lacking. I’m not sure if it’s something that can be changed due how you executed the ability in game. But it’s something to think about.


Mobility – We need something that can do some damage on the run, even if it’s very meager. People kiting for days is boring. Kiting can be a useful mechanic for some classes, but some people literally do it just to draw out an encounter they know they are going to lose. I can swing a sword in real life while running and do it in a fluid motion. However I would be sacrificing defense while doing that motion. Maybe I would open myself to take more damage while using this ability. I’m not asking for a hamstring ability or anything, because those can get out of hand if every class has one. Just give me something I can slowly punish my opponent with that wants to do nothing but run.

In closing I’d like to reiterate that I really like the Knight class and I think the direction it is headed in is a very positive one. The game as a whole is getting better. I realize a lot of my suggestions might have already been discussed and have been rejected for the time being. I also might be ignorant about certain abilities my class has, or methods I can use to help mitigate the issues I’m having. But that brings me to the point I said I was going to elaborate on earlier. You need to make this game easier for the “noob”. I know this is alpha and things will change and you might already have plans. But one of the biggest mistakes MMO’s sometimes make is they don’t give the players the basic tool set to at least hold their own while honing their skills. I shouldn’t have to go to a website, because we know a good portion of the players won’t. The previous statement has been said by many other game developers, so there must be some truth to it. You want to draw players in and make them want to have a deeper understanding. We don’t need any hand holding, all I’m asking for is clear and concise information that gives me the data I need to make good decisions with regards to combat. When the game comes near to launch, it would be nice to have a wiki that can be easily access in the game. Gather up some volunteers to help maintain it.

I apologize if this is long winded. But I don’t give feedback after every test. I like to gather a lot of personal experience before I elaborate. Go grab a beer and rest your eyes now, you earned it! 

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Shield Lunge - The bouncing of the target away from the knight is not intended. It's a product of the new client controller. It never happened with the server controller. Hopefully it will get fixed soon, because it really messes up my attack plan.


Shield Slam - Love this ability, when it works. In some matches, the ability will fire immediately regardless of how long you hold it down and it will be messed up for the duration of the match. If you press K in game, or the "View Powers" link in the lobby, you can see all of the abilities and descriptions. Some tooltips would be nice though. I imagine they will add those at some point. I think it's pretty clear how it works, but I've been using it for a long time, so maybe I'm just taking that for granted. There is supposed to be a charge bar at the bottom middle of the screen that shows you how much the ability has charged. More often than not, the bar disappears before I release the button, but I've gotten to the point where I know how long to hold it without having to look.


Block - I don't know if the reflect portion is working. I've never noticed it. Being able to push people with it would be nice. It doesn't always seem to activate though. I think if I press the button too soon after using another ability, it doesn't actually work and I have to release it and press it again.


Shield Spin - Yes, more options would be nice.


Onslaught - I don't think it's necessary to go that far. It really shouldn't be that hard to learn which abilities do what and associate those abilities with the icons. That said, I'm sure they'll make it as newbie friendly as possible once they've nailed down the specifics.


Of Noble Blood - The damage from this ability occurs when you cast it, not when it expires. It used to work like that, but they changed it. Now the damage occurs at the beginning and the damage shield doesn't expire until it is completely used up. It's a short range AOE that can be used while moving, so it can be helpful for finishing off runners. It's not a large amount of damage, but I have killed people with it on occasion. You may not have noticed it (it took me a while to figure it out), but there is a border that appears around your health bar when you have the damage shield up, so you can see how much of the shield you have left. It won't show you numbers, but maybe that's something that can be added later. 


Chain attack - Yes, this is still buggy. The effective range is 25 yards. You might be able to snag someone at 30 yards, but I try to keep it to 25 yards and under. When you hover the reticle over the target, you will see the distance to the target. Pulling allies would be cool. I think that could open up some cool tactics. 


Mobility - As mentioned, Of Noble Blood gives us a small AOE that we can do while running. We are also supposed to have a slow that is attached to our 3rd basic attack and, if we use basic attack while sprinting, it will apply the slow on the first hit rather than the 3rd. This doesn't seem to work. Even if it did work, it is almost impossible to hit a running target with our basic attack due to the animation lock.


They are in the process of modifying the abilities to make them more responsive, and to add momentum to attacks. So if you are running and execute an ability, you will continue to move in that same direction while executing the ability. This should help a lot in trying to maintain melee range. 


Mana - You didn't mention this, but I feel like it needs to be said again. Knights need better mana regeneration. We get 10-13 mana each time we hit with a basic attack, and 10 mana each time we block an attack. That just isn't enough when our abilities cost between 60 and 120 mana each. The only thing that has made it tolerable lately is that we can easily get out of combat to regenerate mana, but we shouldn't need to leave combat to regen our mana. Maybe with the proper training of skills, this will end up being a non-issue. We'll see.

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Thanks for the tips Arkade, much appreciated. I'm just getting to the point where I'm "good" with the knight, but not great. Some of the things I just didn't find intuitive for myself, and other's may be having the same problem. The shield slam confused me because you can do an instant attack with it, but you can also channel it. So when it said charge it, i thought i was suppose to do something else to charge the shield and I had a difficult time figuring out what it was. Obviously after I learned the class a little I asked somebody and got some clarification. I've got it all straightened out now and I was amazed at how much damage I was missing out on, and even then I still held my own.

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I don't have a chance of playing thie early on, but I have to ask, how much do you find yourself blocking? In most videos I see people hardly put their sheild up, which I thought was supposed to be a key feature of the character.


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I don't have a chance of playing thie early on, but I have to ask, how much do you find yourself blocking? In most videos I see people hardly put their sheild up, which I thought was supposed to be a key feature of the character.


I have used the block mechanic to protect teammates from long range attacks, "body block"/trap opponents, and as a survival mechanic while waiting for a teammate's healing timer.    

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I don't have a chance of playing thie early on, but I have to ask, how much do you find yourself blocking? In most videos I see people hardly put their sheild up, which I thought was supposed to be a key feature of the character.

Part of the problem is that block doesn't always work. It doesn't work against champ's Rend or Suppress. Ironically, it's most useful against other knights. 


In larger fights, when damage can come at you from any direction, it's usually better to be moving instead of blocking. We can move while blocking now, but it's much slower. Smaller fights, particularly 1 vs 1, is when block is used most. 

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On Blocking: basicly whenever you see a big chunk of damage coming (some combos from knight, confessor, or champion) or another effect you really dont want to get (knockback) you have the choice to move or to block.

Moving is cheaper, because you dont need stamina, and is an opportunity to get a better position. But since you should always move to get a better position, more often then not I find myself in a situation where I dont want to move, for example I dont want to give the enemy a clear path to move, or I can prevent damage for allies behind me, or I cannot move because im slowed. In that case, I always block, wich is quite often, especially in 4v4.

Also like arcarde mentioned, some champion abilities cannot be blocked, and thus must be evaded (never just take a suppression)

My advice would be to use your shield often, and then learn when to move away instead, and when to just take the hit to preserve stamina or to cast an ability.


With the new Client side controller we basicly lost the ability to just push peoble around by walking into them, wich was one of my key things to do to protect allies. (and, if fighting near the hunger or a fire, also to kill enemies). I think it would be great to reintroduce a way to push people, either by walking or only during block.


On the Chainpull: basicly how I understand it, the pull just gives the enemy a strong push into your direction, just enough to travel the up to 30m distance between you. On even ground, this will cause the enemy to bump into you, bringing him to a stop right infront of you (or some ally if he is between you, wich is great if he is a champion who knows he is coming). If however the Enemy kollides with a hill for example, he will slide upwards, until he loses the ground because of his velocity, effectivly flinging him though the air. The same apllies to enemies above you, they cannot travel directly in your direction, because the ground is in their way, thus the force is redirected and your target flies over your head.

If you take notice of the layout of the ground you can quite reliable tell how your chainpull will affect your target.

Just remember: he just gets a short push into the right direction, the rest is up to the physics system.


On the Shield Lunge knockback: As Arcade said, this only happens since the client side movement was introduced.

Basicly imagine you hitting your enemy with high speed and mass, coming to a stop right where he stood before. You can test this with your hand and any light object of your chosing: it gets knocked back, in our case causing it to be out of range of the follow up stun.

A far more bugged thing happens if you continue to charge after you collided: normaly you just take the enemy with you until you come to a stop.

sometimes you pull him with you a short distance, then move though is body, and end up behind him (of course causing you to miss your stun).

Until it gets fixed you can use the ability in three different ways:

As a stun by stopping right before you collide with him (you can control the distance travelled by holding down the key and letting it go in the right moment)

As a knockback by stopping right after you collide with him (basicly stopping at the position he stood before)

As some sort of push or sometimes (unintended) escape by running past him. Could be used as bug using, but basicly its not to your favor because the way it should work you travel the same distance, and prevent the enemy from following you with a stun, while at the moment you only know you will travel the full distance, but not wether the enemy will come with you.


On Shieldspin: more options would be nice, but on the other hand would allow you to fake a stun, wich would make it so much harder to see the stun in advance, wich would be a very strong change in my opinion.


On Shieldslam: One of these things in Crowfall that are not communicated very well to the player, I totally agree this should be made more clear sometime.


On mobility: between chain pull Shield Lunge and nobel Blood I think we have enough ways of helping in a chase, if we have allies wie can work together with (champion slow+chain+body block, confessor stun+lungestun+bodyblock, Legioslow+lunge+anything....). The thing is, if the enemy tries to run you have to work together to slow him, lock him down for a short moment, and the surround him to finnish him off.

As a knight you have plenty of abilities to help in this, not the least of wich is the block to have enough mass to bodyblock even against the different jumps and charges other characters can use to break out of surrounds.

If you are alone however, we are still the class that has the least mobility but can hold his ground for some time against any number of enemies. Being able to hunt down players on your own does not fit into the knight for me, and since Legionaire knockbacks arent as strong as before the CSC, I think we are the strongest class to fight in the last moments of the hungerdome, wich enables us to just wait for the end if someone runs off.


On noble blood: Arcade basicly said everything. Its just an awesome ability to use whenever possible.


Thats basicly my thoughts for now.

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  • 1 month later...

Knight took a really good direction recently. Might be slightly overpowered, however I think the confessor might have got nerfed too much and thew off the balance. The only thing I don't like is now my charge doesn't seem to push anymore. Whenever a melee is on my healer or ranged I like to push them away if I have that option available to me. The point of a tank is to protect others, and taking that ability away takes away a core utility that we need for our classes role.

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Yeah, I noticed that about Pursuit. Players aren't bouncing off any more, but sometimes I'll go right through them.


Block isn't working 100%. You hit me with the Pursuit stun and Shield Slam for full damage in one of the early matches today, both while I was blocking. Mobs will often hit me for the full amount when blocking.


I still think mana needs to be looked at. Blair said that we can increase the regen via skills, but I'm not sure how well that will work. I'll need to dig into the skills I guess. It seems like if I'm running shotgun with a Lego, I can't run out of mana, but if I don't have a Lego, I'm always running dry. I'd like to see a better balance whereby I can keep up my mana myself better and be less dependent on the Lego buff.


Shield Slam is mostly working. The charge bar always shows now and the ability never fires early anymore, but the range is very tight. There have been numerous times where I have aimed it well and the target seemed to be in range, but it did no damage.


Other than that, I still want to see our "C" ability replaced with something more useful.

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