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Degan

Siege Perilous Questions

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I'm itching for more information about Siege Perilous (SP) but since I can't get my crowcain fix I figured I'd indulge in some rampant speculation with fellow addicts.

 

The only things I know about SP come from this post http://crowfall.com/en/news/founders-update-testing-2-0-siege-perilous/

 

So...two team session based test of capture mechanics and destruction.  I think its safe to assume that much of the team mechanics from the hunger dome will move to SP in that we can pick which of two teams we will join.  The destruction will probably be in the same map layout.  My questions:

  • Where will the Siege equipment be?
    • Are they already placed in the world - SP 1.0 Catapults spawn 3 at a time in the world.  After SP the plan is to have build times and resource requirements for each that craters will manage with a limited number of bays to build siege equipment
    • Can I buy siege equipment from vendors
    • Do we have to loot siege equipment from mobs
  • How are the bane circles and trees placed
    • Same locations every time - SP 1.0 Tree of Life (TOL) is always on top of the keep and the bane trees are West, North, and East of the keep.
    • Random selection of # locations each
  • What are the siege mechanics like
    • Does "entering" the siege equipment grant me a new set of skills - SP 1.0
    • Does clicking the siege equipment just cause it to do its thing
    • Do they have pet controls and AI runs it
  • What kind of siege equipment is available to each team? - SP 1.0 has catapults for the attacking team.  Plans to add more in the future.
  • Will the hunger still be the upper limit for the duration of each match? - SP 1.0 A time limit is set but it is adjusted by deaths for defenders and attackers.  Destroy the TOL and attackers win.  Destroy the Bane Trees and defenders win.  The team that has done the most damage to the TOL or all 3 bane trees wins when the time runs out.
  • Can the defenders repair walls and other defenses? - SP 1.0 not yet
  • Is siege damage a new kind of pool? - Yes, but magic damage from players will remove the magic barrier on walls
    • For clarity-do walls have HP that my sword of fireball can reduce or does my ability need to have some new kind of damage factor

Edits: In Bold

Edited by Degan

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My idea for SP would be:

 

For high level match mechanics I'm leaning towards no time limit on the end of the game but the hunger eventually condenses the filed of battle to a radius around the keep roughly the distance of the current trebs.  The match would start with a tree generated in one of several random locations in the keep.  After 10 or so minutes "war" would be declared basically allowing the banestone to be placed.  Expecting longer matches, I believe a respawn mechanic would be needed.

 

I feel vendors should be introduced to the game allowing players to buy the low level (maybe blue) equipment they desire along with any siege equipment and a single banestone.  To cap the amount of siege around a banestone I'm imaging a similar mechanic to what was discussed in the world building video where you can limit equipment in an area.

 

In terms of mechanics I could go several ways.  I like the feel of controlling siege with a new set of skills for each, aiming the catapult and controlling the power for distance.  I also see the benefits of treating siege like a pet allowing me to continue to play my character making battles with 50v50 and 20 pieces of siege seem more epic because 20 people aren't stationary.

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I'm itching for more information about Siege Perilous (SP) but since I can't get my crowcain fix I figured I'd indulge in some rampant speculation with fellow addicts.

 

The only things I know about SP come from this post http://crowfall.com/en/news/founders-update-testing-2-0-siege-perilous/

 

So...two team session based test of capture mechanics and destruction.  I think its safe to assume that much of the team mechanics from the hunger dome will move to SP in that we can pick which of two teams we will join.  The destruction will probably be in the same map layout.  My questions:

  • Where will the Siege equipment be?
    • Are they already placed in the world
    • Can I buy siege equipment from vendors
    • Do we have to loot siege equipment from mobs
  • How are the bane circles and trees placed
    • Same locations every time
    • Random selection of # locations each
  • What are the siege mechanics like
    • Does "entering" the siege equipment grant me a new set of skills
    • Does clicking the siege equipment just cause it to do its thing
    • Do they have pet controls and AI runs it
  • What kind of siege equipment is available to each team?
  • Will the hunger still be the upper limit for the duration of each match?
  • Can the defenders repair walls and other defenses?
  • Is siege damage a new kind of pool?
    • For clarity-do walls have HP that my sword of fireball can reduce or does my ability need to have some new kind of damage factor

 

 

Great list.  

 

Outlining this system will be the focus of one or more updates between now and SP 1.0.  and remember that some of the answers, just like Hunger Dome, will be short-cuts that we are taking right now, just for testing.  We're still not going to be using generated maps, so that means by default there will be a handful of things that we know we have to come back and revisit for the actual game.  (just like the item drops in Hunger Dome, which were dropped in due to the fact that we don't have crafting or resource collection.

 

Todd

ACE


J Todd Coleman

ArtCraft Entertainment, Inc.

Follow us on Twitter @CrowfallGame | Like us on Facebook

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Updated the original post with the information I'm aware of.  Please let me know if I've got something wrong or missed anything.  I wanted to follow up the initial post with some blue sky thoughts on siege since T Blair mentioned it might be a good idea in the April 17th feedback thread.

 

My understanding of the siege game play loop is:

  1. Attackers drop bane
  2. Bane goes active and things become vulnerable to attack
  3. Winners are declared

I know it's over simplified, but I left out the piece that I don't think we have answers to.  Essential the three items above are the givens in my mind.  My ideal siege time line would look something along these lines

 

  1. Attackers drop bane and provide defenders with window(s) to set active siege time
  2. Defenders are given the option to select their best siege window
  3. If no window is selected the attackers are given their pick
  4. Attackers must then layout their siege camps
  5. The camps are not built at the time of planning but must have supplies delivered prior to the siege window
  6. Based on the siege camp layout defenders may adjust defenses accordingly
  7. Defenders and attackers are now in a game play loop to either get supplies to the siege camps or intercept it
  8. Camps not supplied by the time the siege goes active are not available for siege
  9. Bane goes active indicating that the following items can be destroyed
    1. Tree of Life
    2. Bane Tree(s)
    3. Walls/Buildings
    4. Siege Camps
  10. Crafters can now begin siege equipment construction (these are additional resources not the same that were required to build the camps)
  11. We get the current SP 1.0 lite siege situation
  12. Winners are declared
    1. Attackers only win if they destroy the Tree of Life
    2. Defenders win if they destroy the Bane Tree(s)
    3. Defenders win if the siege window runs out

With that game play loop in mind I had some questions and suggestions

 

  • Will we see multiple levels of Trees? Levels could impact:
    • Tree hit points
    • Radius of protection or destruction
    • Quantity of building types within their radius (siege camps, guard towers)
    • Cost of the tree
  • What kind of damage can be done to a city without a bane?
  • What other methods of entering a city do we have
    • Someone leaves the front door open?
    • Climbing the outer walls?
    • Tunneling under?
  • Where do you plan on having the siege negotiation interface
    • The Trees of the attackers and defenders?
    • A guild interface?
  • Assuming siege camps need built with materials carried by caravans can anyone build the camps or just the attacking guild?
  • Will we be able to place thralls in siege camps to defend them or augment siege production?
  • Do siege camps provide a safe place for vessels and equipment until they are destroyed?
  • When the siege window ends is the current city state maintained or does some kind of reset occur?
  • General mechanics changes
    • Will we get opening and closing doors? Magic doors break the risk vs reward that ACE is looking for because the defenders who sally out don't risk attackers entering through the same doors.
    • I'd like to see siege move slower to make the siege camp placement more impact-full

In general, the current state of SP 1.0 is fun but the siege loop feels a little shallow.  Attackers and defenders need more options for controlling their attack and defense (I don't think this is possible for a mini game to achieve).  It feels to easy to leave the keep and destroy objectives, 2 - 3 people can take a bane tree down.  Keep up the awesome work.

Edited by Degan

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Some more thoughts around the siege camps:

 

  • Camp size needs to be selected during the initial planning phase
  • The size selected is an all or nothing approach (you either get the supplies to the camp in order to build it or you loose the site and any supplies in the site)
  • Declaring a siege camp site requires some initial outlay of resources (only to prevent declaring the maximum number of camps per tree)
  • The size of the camp determines
    • The number of guild members who can store vessels in the siege camp
    • The number of vessels each member can store
    • The number of siege bays for building equipment
    • The number of thralls that can occupy the camp
  • Thralls at the siege camp can aid in the following ways
    • Patrol the camp itself as added defense
    • Patrol a near by bane tree as added defense
    • Improve siege build time
    • Improve some aspect of the siege equipment (range, barrier damage, wall damage, HP)
  • Attacking guild controls who has access to a siege camp and the banners of guilds with access is displayed at that siege camp (kind of excited about this one)
  • Only the attacking guild can add resources to a siege camp (this gives the defending scouts something to look for during the set up phase
  • Siege camps can only be destroyed once the siege begins

I feel like this communicates important information to the defenders around the size of attack to expect and gives them some advanced time to counter the attack by either politics, raiding caravans, or positioning defenses to counter the attack.

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I think the "drop bane" mechanic might only be one way in which it works. I think they've mentioned in the past that defenders might be able to set a window of vulnerability during which they can be attacked. So the time would be pre-determined before any attack is announced.

 

I'm not sure about "Camps not supplied by the time the siege goes active are not available for siege". That seems too punitive for the attackers. The defenders could win the siege before it even begins. Disrupting the supply lines prior to the start of the siege will delay or negate the building of the camps without the need for a cutoff time.

 

Also, it may be necessary to move the building of camps to within the siege window, rather than having it as prep prior to the siege. I'm not sure how long they expect a siege to last. An hour? 2 hours? Too much prep before the actual siege might make the whole process too long.

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I think the "drop bane" mechanic might only be one way in which it works. I think they've mentioned in the past that defenders might be able to set a window of vulnerability during which they can be attacked. So the time would be pre-determined before any attack is announced.

 

Ya I defiantly haven't considered how the mechanics will change between attackers drop bane, and defenders set vulnerability for collecting tree seeds.

 

 

I'm not sure about "Camps not supplied by the time the siege goes active are not available for siege". That seems too punitive for the attackers. The defenders could win the siege before it even begins. Disrupting the supply lines prior to the start of the siege will delay or negate the building of the camps without the need for a cutoff time.

 

Agreed.  How about a building stages kind of mechanic.  You can build camps after a bane all the way up till a winner is called.  Camps change in size and layout as you increase the amount of supplies delivered to the camp.

 

 

Also, it may be necessary to move the building of camps to within the siege window, rather than having it as prep prior to the siege. I'm not sure how long they expect a siege to last. An hour? 2 hours? Too much prep before the actual siege might make the whole process too long.

I was looking for some back and forth prior to the siege in terms of planning for success.  Seeing the locations and sizes of the camps prior to the seige would help the defenders plan their defenses accordingly.  Being attacked and only knowing who declared it prior to the siege going active doesn't give the defenders much time to plan against the attack.  I also don't see a siege lasting 2 hours based on the current game play we see in SP.

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