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Founders’ Update: Innovation is risky - Official discussion thread

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We don’t have a marketing budget [...]

 

I wonder where the marketing expenses are budgeted then. The salary of the video producer, salary of developers when they're featured in promotional videos, the EU advisor whose job is to get more visibility in EU, the marketing research (survey, advisors, data collection and analyze), salary for promotion on social media, salary for the creation of promotional images, website, newsletters, KS promotion (GoT artists, interviewer, ads) etc. all seem to fall under marketing expenses: "Typically, some common marketing expenses include marketing salaries, marketing research, promotions, public relations and advertising costs." 1

Edited by courant101

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The media today only write about stuff they are getting paid for. So all the articles now out of sudden popping up in europe must be bought/paid by ACE.

I think this is very disgusting, having now out of sudden all these websites featuring Crowfall, after they stopped reporting about Crowfall right after the kickstarter campaign.

The media really only say what they are getting told by the guy paying for the article. You can read directly the news handed out from publishers like this, there is no difference, only that these disgusting gaming jounalists are costing gamers, making a game even more expensive. But I wouldnt call these people writing what they are paid to and told to journalists anymore anyway.

Its really awkward, and one of the major reason why gaming has become so unambitioned and uninspired, totally arbitrary.

Edited by Urahara

After EverQuest Next is gone, its Star Citizen for me.

 

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A thought occurred to me today about how publishers are "averse to risk". I know Gordon has talked about it quite a bit in the past, how big publishers want a game that will appeal to everyone and that doesn't push the boundaries too much, because they are looking for a significant ROI. However, look at the cost of the games they have built. SW:TOR reportedly cost 200 mil to make. That is a considerable risk.

 

Wouldn't publishers be smarter to risk less money on a game that does something different than most of the games out there? For the cost of SW:TOR, a publisher could have financed 2 dozen Crowfalls. Game companies are scaling back their games to reduce cost, and looking to Kickstarter and other crowdfunding options to get them financed, but this is a place where the big publishers should step back in and take on more creative risk in favor of less financial risk. Well, if they are smart, that is.

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A thought occurred to me today about how publishers are "averse to risk". I know Gordon has talked about it quite a bit in the past, how big publishers want a game that will appeal to everyone and that doesn't push the boundaries too much, because they are looking for a significant ROI. However, look at the cost of the games they have built. SW:TOR reportedly cost 200 mil to make. That is a considerable risk.

 

Wouldn't publishers be smarter to risk less money on a game that does something different than most of the games out there? For the cost of SW:TOR, a publisher could have financed 2 dozen Crowfalls. Game companies are scaling back their games to reduce cost, and looking to Kickstarter and other crowdfunding options to get them financed, but this is a place where the big publishers should step back in and take on more creative risk in favor of less financial risk. Well, if they are smart, that is.

 

Star Citizen and Crowfall will show the big publishers how cheap and ueless they are.

As you stated these people got hundred millions of money with them and dont know a bit about games or anything, because they dont play games, they are just animals, worse than animals, animals play all the time. So because they dont know anything about games they just try to clone what is already successful in hope to make it better than the original and be successful.

Its so cheap and underwhelming, but yeah, thats all what is to their ambition, if you even can call that amibition.

They really dont know anything.

Just imagine what creative and inspired people could do with this money, which amazing, breathtaking games they could create.

But yeah, thats the world we live in, there is so much money in the world that any smart person knows that its only worthless colourful paper, not worth the paper its used for. But still all people long for this worhtless colourful paper, as it it their god and essence of life.

And all what that money does is making things worse, like you can see with development of the gaming industry.

The gaming industry was so much better and more fun when the gaming industry still wasnt discovered by the capitalism and was much less full of money.

Today the gaming industry is full of money like never before, and almost everything what you have to play is garbage.

Edited by Urahara

After EverQuest Next is gone, its Star Citizen for me.

 

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na, I think u can't say "that everything what we have to play is garbage" thats totally NOT true. What i can say that the MMO niche looks like you said but for other genres there are very good games (singleplayer roleplay,Adventure, Moba,FPS Games). Maybe you don't like/play this games so you look to the gaming industrie from the MMO point of view.


One Ring to Rule them all, One Ring to Find them, One Ring to bring them all an in the darkness and bind them.

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For singleplayer experiences only the Witcher 3, Metal Gear Solid 5 and maybe 1 other I cant think of would have been noteworthy, and Witcher 3 and MGS are such exeptional games because they arent made by ambitionless publishers but creative people.

Edited by Urahara

After EverQuest Next is gone, its Star Citizen for me.

 

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Custard it seems like yesterday I was googling Play2Crush then discussing the EK and time-based Campaign concepts with the rest of the flock! 

 

*Edit-now that I think about it, I guess not much changes :D 

Edited by tierless

I role play a wordsmith.

 

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@shadowfang, no, whatever you have to do isn't a strategy game, unless you have a deep variety of options in combat, and an imperative to seek out the best strategy and not just FOOS, it's beneath the strategy genre.

 

@Ziz, they've denied flight, bunch of winged advertisements, no flight. I'm not impressed with half hearted features.

Edited by bahamutkaiser

a52d4a0d-044f-44ff-8a10-ccc31bfa2d87.jpg          Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes... Than if they're upset, they'll be a mile away, and barefoot :P

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Star Citizen and Crowfall will show the big publishers how cheap and ueless they are. [...]

 

It's not like Crowfall is completely independent and has no string-attached money.

 

Out of ~$6.5M, only ~$2.65 is crowdfunded, if I'm correct all the rest is either money coming from investors or founders ($3.85M).

 

Some of the investors or/and board members of ArtCraft (from angel.co page): John Lee (Gamera Networks), Guntram Graef (Anshe Chung Studios), Robert Xiao (Perfect World).

 

Two of their advisors: Eric Goldberg (Playdom), Andreas Weidenhaupt (prev. GameForge, Infernum Studios).

 

https://youtu.be/JFHJhULEu8Q?t=6m26s

 

^ Not sure how true this sounds anymore. At this point I lost hope to see Crowfall created in the way it was described by ACE.

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It's not like Crowfall is completely independent and has no string-attached money.

 

Out of ~$6.5M, only ~$2.65 is crowdfunded, if I'm correct all the rest is either money coming from investors or founders ($3.85M).

 

Some of the investors or/and board members of ArtCraft (from angel.co page): John Lee (Gamera Networks), Guntram Graef (Anshe Chung Studios), Robert Xiao (Perfect World).

 

Two of their advisors: Eric Goldberg (Playdom), Andreas Weidenhaupt (prev. GameForge, Infernum Studios).

 

https://youtu.be/JFHJhULEu8Q?t=6m26s

 

^ Not sure how true this sounds anymore. At this point I lost hope to see Crowfall created in the way it was described by ACE.

Well unless can prove they have lost creative control or post source able facts stating they have been influenced by this money, not going to be concerned or "lose hope". Not naïve to think it wouldn't be easy to give away something for a little more backing $ but until there's actual hard evidence and not just nervous speculation not going to give in to panicking about it.

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It's not like Crowfall is completely independent and has no string-attached money.

 

Out of ~$6.5M, only ~$2.65 is crowdfunded, if I'm correct all the rest is either money coming from investors or founders ($3.85M).

 

Some of the investors or/and board members of ArtCraft (from angel.co page): John Lee (Gamera Networks), Guntram Graef (Anshe Chung Studios), Robert Xiao (Perfect World).

 

Two of their advisors: Eric Goldberg (Playdom), Andreas Weidenhaupt (prev. GameForge, Infernum Studios).

 

https://youtu.be/JFHJhULEu8Q?t=6m26s

 

^ Not sure how true this sounds anymore. At this point I lost hope to see Crowfall created in the way it was described by ACE.

 

Yes sure, but Crowfall is developer driven.

Its "Hello I am JTC! And I am Gordon Walton. And we want to make this game we have in mind."

 

While all the other games on the market are

"Hey I am a total selfish person, I can do programming and i wanna make lots of money!" or

"Hey I am EA, I got already lots of money and wanna make more of it, so buy our games we spent more for marketing in than development of the game, thank you (you idiot)! Oh and buy also all our DLC and microtransaction BS, because we never get enough of money, thank you hun (idiot)!"

 

Well they for sure cant now come and dump all down because its more convenient and less work. I expect a real vibrant living open world, everybody can find his piece of fun in. I cant hardly think of Crowfall becoming worse than any MMO, which is available on the market today, because they all suck and totally lack ambition, they never even tried to be something ambitious, its disgusting. So even if Crowfall wont get this huge open free vibrant living world they told us, it will still be more enjoyable than anything else on the market today.

And for the most important point, many people who love a really ambitious game have showed, that they are still alive and present, ready to support a person with personality and character, able and willing to innovate the MMO genre, which is soo much necessary. This is very important, maybe the most important thing about Crowfall to point out, and the sole and only reason I am participating here.

 

Dont worry. I will tell you when something seems going down the wrong way. So far I am very positive with the responsiveness, awareness and communication. And we will have to see how things play out down the line. So far there, things arent looking great to me at the moment, but they certainly dont look bad or so either. We just have to wait and see until we got a better understanding, and are able to see the bigger picture, to know how to look at this and then interpret this.

But yeah the honeymoon phase is more or less over and we get to see whats under the surface now.

I am still oprimistic.

Edited by Urahara

After EverQuest Next is gone, its Star Citizen for me.

 

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@shadowfang, no, whatever you have to do isn't a strategy game, unless you have a deep variety of options in combat, and an imperative to seek out the best strategy and not just FOOS, it's beneath the strategy genre.

OK then, how about these:

 

Resources: Do we put them into the Embargo for the end reward? Do we keep them in the Campaign to further our domination? Where should they be allocated? Should we make weapons and armor for individual players? Should we use them to build siege and war machines? Should we build walls and buildings for further processing of materials or for storage? Should we hoard them for the end-game when Winter comes or use them generously despite the difficulty rising with time? How should resources be transported? Caravans allow us to collect more but they're slow and need to be defended. Carrying things individually means we have to leave the PoI behind frequently and drop off resources back at the base, which gives the enemy time to take what's left.

 

Battle: Should we go for the enemy now or focus on defending what's ours? How long should we wait to strike? If our scouts find enemies, should we take them on or avoid them? If we gather some archers can we kite enemies into an ambush? Should we just push them back long enough to claim something and then leave, cutting our losses by ducking out of the fight? Should we just charge and see what happens? If we have enough players, should we use them to zerg an area or team them up to ambush at choke points?

 

Points of Interest (PoI): Should we try to defend this graveyard for our own personal use or destroy it so our enemies can't come back from here? If a PoI is too close to an enemy stronghold for us to utilize without constant conflict, should we just destroy it to remove some of their advantage? Is there a way to steal from a PoI without the enemy noticing? Which PoIs should we focus our energies on utilizing and defending?

 

Siege - Attacking: Should we have a mass of siege weapons and go full-force? Is there a way to sneak into the stronghold? Should we go for a full frontal assault or attack all sides? Where should our magic-uses focus their fire? Is there a weak spot anywhere, and if not, should we make one or take it all down? Should we focus on the walls or the enemy players? Is there a way to attack from underground with our Guineceans? Should we have crafters stationed nearby to repair our machines, which reduces durability but allows for longer use before it breaks?

 

Siege - Defending: If we see the enemy, do we send out a greeting party or watch them closely? Is it a good idea to send out melee, or should we keep them inside and let the Archers and magic-users attack from above until the enemy tries to get inside? Did we remember to make siege equipment so that we can counter an assault? If we send out melee fighters, should we keep stealth-users in the keep to kill off any who try to get inside? Should there be anti-stealth on the walls or in the keep, maybe both if there are enough of them?

 

Definition of strategy: a plan, method, or series of maneuvers or stratagems for obtaining specific goal or result.

 

Again I state: That sounds like strategy to me.


Can we have a Bard? If not as an Archetype or Promotion, then maybe a Discipline?


i-3ZQNFxh.jpg

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By your definition, everything is a strategy game, it is a faulty and inadequate definition.

 

It's as simple as observing the strategy genre or imitating actual battle strategies. Making creative arguements for whatever you accept doesn't result in a strategy game.


a52d4a0d-044f-44ff-8a10-ccc31bfa2d87.jpg          Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes... Than if they're upset, they'll be a mile away, and barefoot :P

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Keep it up, out of the three big MMO's coming out this year, you are the one I have settled on that I believe will do what you just said, restore the magic and give me a new perm MMO home, My spouse is strongly considering backing as well, although I suspect she is going to need to wait till I upgrade and can see it in action before she pulls the trigger.


For the night is dark and filled with terrors.

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Star Citizen and Crowfall will show the big publishers how cheap and ueless they are.

As you stated these people got hundred millions of money with them and dont know a bit about games or anything, because they dont play games, they are just animals, worse than animals, animals play all the time. So because they dont know anything about games they just try to clone what is already successful in hope to make it better that the original and be successful.

Its so cheap and underwhelming, but yeah, thats all what is to their ambition, if you even can call that amibition.

They really dont know anything.

Just imagine what creative and inspired people could do with this money, which amazing, breathtaking games they could create.

But yeah, thats the world we live in, there is so much money in the world that any smart person knows that its only worthless colourful paper, not worth the paper its used for. But still all people long for this worhtless colourful paper, as it it their god and essence of life.

And all what that money does is making things worse, like you can see with development of the gaming industry.

The gaming industry was so much better and more fun when the gaming industry still wasnt discovered by the capitalism and was much less full of money.

Today the gaming industry is full of money like never before, and almost everything what you have to play is garbage.

 

I completely agree with this. I am currently playing Battlefront and Witcher 3, and will be picking up The Division in the near future, outside of just a couple games for the WiiU nothing else even slightly interests me. I would argue 90% of what is released in the gaming sphere and 95% of what is released in the MMO sphere is garbage that exists solely to monetize the player. 


For the night is dark and filled with terrors.

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